Victron Battery Protect UP IN SMOKE in 12V system. HELP

[SolarHawaii]

I have been trying to setup my offgrid solar system out here in Hawaii with 2 x 115AH LIFEPO4 Batteries. I thought I had the setup up to code with fuses etc. I did not have solar panels hooked up and wanted to test the system first. I did not hook up any loads to inverter. Everything was up and running, I programmed the charge controller and battery protect, everything working fine with battery level at 13.4V I flipped on the the power to the inverter and heard a pop and the Victron app said something about Circuit popped and started smoking until a fire was nearly created. Not sure what I did wrong but I could really use some advice on my setup. Pictures explain my setup. Thanks in advance

 

[Re-Volt-Oz]

I have been trying to setup my offgrid solar system out here in Hawaii with 2 x 115AH LIFEPO4 Batteries. I thought I had the setup up to code with fuses etc. I did not have solar panels hooked up and wanted to test the system first. I did not hook up any loads to inverter. Everything was up and running, I programmed the charge controller and battery protect, everything working fine with battery level at 13.4V I flipped on the the power to the inverter and heard a pop and the Victron app said something about Circuit popped and started smoking until a fire was nearly created. Not sure what I did wrong but I could really use some advice on my setup. Pictures explain my setup. Thanks in advan

 

[HRTKD]

Incorrect use of the Battery Protect device. It's never to be used in the circuit to an inverter.

 

[mikefitz]

RTFM,
Victron state that the Battery Protect must not be used in the high current path of an inverter.

why can I not use a smart battery protect between battery and inverter? - Victron Community

community.victronenergy.com

 

[Old Seagull Man]

Don't know if will help but i use a Tyco Kilavac contactor switched by the relay out put on my BMV 702.

 

[rmaddy]

There are many things in your wiring setup that need to be changed.

- The ANL fuse should be between the battery and the positive bus bar
- The inverter positive should not be connected to the battery protect (as everyone above mentioned)
- The SCC positive should not be connected to the battery protect (the battery protect is not a bus bar)
- Only the 12V fuse box should be connected to the battery protect
- When connecting more than one wire to a stud on a bus bar, always put the wire with the highest loads on first. It's hard to tell from the picture but it looks like the left-most stud of the negative bus bar in your first picture has the battery protect negative wire on first and then the negative wire from the 12V fuse box is on top. They should be the other way around.
- You need a fuse for the wire to the battery protect

Wire it all as follows:

battery positive -> ANL fuse -> positive bus bar
battery negative -> negative bus bar
SCC positive -> 50A breaker -> positive bus bar
SCC negative -> negative bus bar
inverter positive -> positive bus bar
inverter negative -> negative bus bar
12V fuse box positive -> battery protect out
12V fuse box negative -> negative bus bar
battery protect in -> fuse -> positive bus bar
battery protect negative -> negative bus bar

Without the inverter connected to the battery protect you probably do not need the 100A version of the battery protect. It will all depend on how many 12VDC loads you will have.

If your inverter supports a remote on/off then it can be connected to the relay connections of the battery protect.

 

[mikefitz]

Unfortunately much of the media suggestions for wiring up a solar controller, battery and inverter, do not follow best engineering practice. Wire size and over current protection is often inadequate.
Its easy to assume that the Victron battery protect can feed an inverter, as there are circuits shown on the internet that do so. Also Victron themselves do not stress the importance of not connecting to an inverter, so its an easy mistake to make. The OP should not feel too bad about the errors and damage, I guess all the contributors to this forum have experienced smoke, sparks, burnt components, blown fuses, at some stage.
One practical point not discussed so far is that low cost breakers, like the one in the feed to the solar controller, are unreliable and may cause problems. Also, over current protection, breakers or fuses, should be positioned so there is minimal lengths of unprotected cable from the power source, the lithium battery.

Mike

 

[SolarHawaii]

There are many things in your wiring setup that need to be changed.

- The ANL fuse should be between the battery and the positive bus bar
- The inverter positive should not be connected to the battery protect (as everyone above mentioned)
- The SCC positive should not be connected to the battery protect (the battery protect is not a bus bar)
- Only the 12V fuse box should be connected to the battery protect
- When connecting more than one wire to a stud on a bus bar, always put the wire with the highest loads on first. It's hard to tell from the picture but it looks like the left-most stud of the negative bus bar in your first picture has the battery protect negative wire on first and then the negative wire from the 12V fuse box is on top. They should be the other way around.
- You need a fuse for the wire to the battery protect

Wire it all as follows:

battery positive -> ANL fuse -> positive bus bar
battery negative -> negative bus bar
SCC positive -> 50A breaker -> positive bus bar
SCC negative -> negative bus bar
inverter positive -> positive bus bar
inverter negative -> negative bus bar
12V fuse box positive -> battery protect out
12V fuse box negative -> negative bus bar
battery protect in -> fuse -> positive bus bar
battery protect negative -> negative bus bar

Without the inverter connected to the battery protect you probably do not need the 100A version of the battery protect. It will all depend on how many 12VDC loads you will have.

If your inverter supports a remote on/off then it can be connected to the relay connections of the battery protect.

I just rewired everything and wondering if everything looks correct? I dropped the battery protect, I am looking for a cheap way to have the battery disconnect when power gets to 20% of charge. I plan to connect the 2 x 115 AH batteries in parallel off the 2 thick wires.

 

[rmaddy]

I see two serious problems in the new setup.

1) You have a 2/0AWG wire from the battery positive to the ANL fuse. That's great. But then you have a 4AWG wire from the ANL fuse to the positive bus bar. That's very bad. Replace the short piece of 4AWG with more 2/0AWG.

2) The inverter wires look even smaller than the 4AWG. Those need to be at least 1AWG. 1/0AWG would be better. If you have more 2/0AWG then that's even better yet.

What size are the wires to the SCC? They need to be at least 8AWG to handle the 40A.

And what about the wires to the DC fuse box? How many amps will your DC loads be?

The 150A fuse is too small. A 1500W inverter on a 12V battery can result in up to 150A of current being pulled from the battery. You also have DC loads on top of that. So you could have roughly 200A of loads on the battery. The 2/0AWG will handle that (the 4AWG will catch fire) but it means you really need a 250A fuse. The 150A fuse will work for now but it will blow if you put too many loads on the inverter and the DC fuse box.

The new layout is much better. Once you get the correct sized wires and fuses you will have a safe system.

If you want to use the Battery Protect you would put it between the positive bus bar and the DC fuse box. This will prevent you DC loads from over-draining the battery. I don't know a good solution to prevent the inverter from using too much battery unless it 1) has a setting for a useful low voltage disconnect, or 2) it has support for a remote on/off switch. If it does then the remote switch can be connected to the relay on the Battery Protect.

 

[Lilikoi_Heavy_Industries]

I see red cinders on the ground so I'm going to guess you're in Puna!

 

[chess-equality]

What does the Victron battery protect do? (quick question on top of my head)

 

[rmaddy]

What does the Victron battery protect do? (quick question on top of my head)

It protects a battery from being over discharged.

It's basically a switch that opens at a user set voltage setting. If the battery's voltage drops below the user set level then the switch opens and anything that was getting power is disconnected. The switch can also be controller via Bluetooth with the VictronConnect app.

The number one rule with a Victron Battery Connect is to never directly connect a device with capacitors, such as an inverter.

 

[SolarHawaii]

I see red cinders on the ground so I'm going to guess you're in Puna!

Yes Up here in Orchidland, Neighbor?

 

[SolarHawaii]

I see two serious problems in the new setup.

1) You have a 2/0AWG wire from the battery positive to the ANL fuse. That's great. But then you have a 4AWG wire from the ANL fuse to the positive bus bar. That's very bad. Replace the short piece of 4AWG with more 2/0AWG.

2) The inverter wires look even smaller than the 4AWG. Those need to be at least 1AWG. 1/0AWG would be better. If you have more 2/0AWG then that's even better yet.

What size are the wires to the SCC? They need to be at least 8AWG to handle the 40A.

And what about the wires to the DC fuse box? How many amps will your DC loads be?

The 150A fuse is too small. A 1500W inverter on a 12V battery can result in up to 150A of current being pulled from the battery. You also have DC loads on top of that. So you could have roughly 200A of loads on the battery. The 2/0AWG will handle that (the 4AWG will catch fire) but it means you really need a 250A fuse. The 150A fuse will work for now but it will blow if you put too many loads on the inverter and the DC fuse box.

The new layout is much better. Once you get the correct sized wires and fuses you will have a safe system.

If you want to use the Battery Protect you would put it between the positive bus bar and the DC fuse box. This will prevent you DC loads from over-draining the battery. I don't know a good solution to prevent the inverter from using too much battery unless it 1) has a setting for a useful low voltage disconnect, or 2) it has support for a remote on/off switch. If it does then the remote switch can be connected to the relay on the Battery Protect.

Thank you very much for your help, been a headache trying to learn all this while keeping a roof over my head haha.

1. Fixed with putting in another 2/0AWG wire from fuse to positive bus bar.

2. Inverter wires are 4AWG ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MD21BCC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1) I do not plan on running more than 500 Watts off the inverter as of now, this was just an inverter I had laying around. Do you still think this is a problem for now? I am going to order more 1AWG now.

Wires to the SCC are 4AWG

The fuse box will be running my pump (Max 17Amps) and UV for water filtration (2Amps)

 

[rmaddy]

With the 4AWG to the inverter I wouldn't go past 1000W on the inverter. If you accidentally use the full 1500W with the 4AWG you are getting into danger mode and risk bad things, including a fire.

Do not rely on "only using" a certain amount of power. A safe system is wired/fused to safely handle the equipment in place. It will be too easy to forget and plug in a 1500W load and then wonder why you smell something burning.

 

[chess-equality]

It protects a battery from being over discharged.

It's basically a switch that opens at a user set voltage setting. If the battery's voltage drops below the user set level then the switch opens and anything that was getting power is disconnected. The switch can also be controller via Bluetooth with the VictronConnect app.

The number one rule with a Victron Battery Connect is to never directly connect a device with capacitors, such as an inverter.

Thank you. So it is another level of protection in addition to the inverter's LVD.

"Never directly connect" meaning put a breaker between it and the inverter?

 

[rmaddy]

So it is another level of protection in addition to the inverter's LVD.

Assuming the inverter even has a LVD. And many that do have a uselessly low LVD. But again, you can't use a Battery Protect with an inverter unless the inverter supportsa remote on/off connection.

"Never directly connect" meaning put a breaker between it and the inverter?

No. Meaning do not connect the inverter's battery wires to the Battery Connect at all, breaker or not. The only way you can control an inverter with a Battery Protect is if the inverter has support for a remote on/off switch. Then you connect that remote switch to the Battery Protect's relay.

Look at the pictures in the OP of this thread. See how the inverter is wired to the Battery Protect? Bad. Never do that. Adding a breaker or fuse is irrelevant.

 

[73powerstroke]

I see two serious problems in the new setup.

1) You have a 2/0AWG wire from the battery positive to the ANL fuse. That's great. But then you have a 4AWG wire from the ANL fuse to the positive bus bar. That's very bad. Replace the short piece of 4AWG with more 2/0AWG.

2) The inverter wires look even smaller than the 4AWG. Those need to be at least 1AWG. 1/0AWG would be better. If you have more 2/0AWG then that's even better yet.

What size are the wires to the SCC? They need to be at least 8AWG to handle the 40A.

And what about the wires to the DC fuse box? How many amps will your DC loads be?

The 150A fuse is too small. A 1500W inverter on a 12V battery can result in up to 150A of current being pulled from the battery. You also have DC loads on top of that. So you could have roughly 200A of loads on the battery. The 2/0AWG will handle that (the 4AWG will catch fire) but it means you really need a 250A fuse. The 150A fuse will work for now but it will blow if you put too many loads on the inverter and the DC fuse box.

The new layout is much better. Once you get the correct sized wires and fuses you will have a safe system.

If you want to use the Battery Protect you would put it between the positive bus bar and the DC fuse box. This will prevent you DC loads from over-draining the battery. I don't know a good solution to prevent the inverter from using too much battery unless it 1) has a setting for a useful low voltage disconnect, or 2) it has support for a remote on/off switch. If it does then the remote switch can be connected to the relay on the Battery Protect.

 

[rmaddy]

That chart is scary. No one should ever use that chart. Where did you find that?

 

[73powerstroke]

I see two serious problems in the new setup.

1) You have a 2/0AWG wire from the battery positive to the ANL fuse. That's great. But then you have a 4AWG wire from the ANL fuse to the positive bus bar. That's very bad. Replace the short piece of 4AWG with more 2/0AWG.

2) The inverter wires look even smaller than the 4AWG. Those need to be at least 1AWG. 1/0AWG would be better. If you have more 2/0AWG then that's even better yet.

What size are the wires to the SCC? They need to be at least 8AWG to handle the 40A.

And what about the wires to the DC fuse box? How many amps will your DC loads be?

The 150A fuse is too small. A 1500W inverter on a 12V battery can result in up to 150A of current being pulled from the battery. You also have DC loads on top of that. So you could have roughly 200A of loads on the battery. The 2/0AWG will handle that (the 4AWG will catch fire) but it means you really need a 250A fuse. The 150A fuse will work for now but it will blow if you put too many loads on the inverter and the DC fuse box.

The new layout is much better. Once you get the correct sized wires and fuses you will have a safe system.

If you want to use the Battery Protect you would put it between the positive bus bar and the DC fuse box. This will prevent you DC loads from over-draining the battery. I don't know a good solution to prevent the inverter from using too much battery unless it 1) has a setting for a useful low voltage disconnect, or 2) it has support for a remote on/off switch. If it does then the remote switch can be connected to the relay on the Battery Protect.

That chart is scary. No one should ever use that chart. Where did you find that?