What would your next charge controller be?

[BjornM]

I can probably not fix my old charge controller, so I might be in the market for something new soon.

Curious to hear what brands and models you are happy with. Something in the 60-100 A charge current range. Battery is 24V, panels are approx 110 V.

I had a quick look at the Vicron SmartSolar line of products. I own a Vicron inverter, and I'm happy with the brand. But I found it strange that their charge controllers don't use battery voltage sense cables. Sensing battery voltage is an add-on that works through Bluetooth. Strange.

 

[chrisski]

Victron prices were slashed. I wonder if this is a sale coming to an end.

 

[BjornM]

Victron prices were slashed. I wonder if this is a sale coming to an end.

Yea I found the 250 V/70 A model for 454 EUR on EBay Germany.

Victron Energy Smart Solar 70A MPPT 250/70 MC4 Charge Controller 12V 24V 48V | eBay

Victron Energy. For remote installations - even when there is no internet connection or phone signal nearby - you may be able to monitor your MPPT by Bluetooth-pairing with a LoRaWAN (long-range wide area network) device, available optionally.

www.ebay.de

 

[chrisski]

By Battery sense, do you mean the temperature reading?

U se the Victron Temp meaure to cut iff charging from my SCC whenits cold and then a degree or two lower, the BMS cuts it off.

I don't know why its not included.

 

[pollenface]

But I found it strange that their charge controllers don't use battery voltage sense cables. Sensing battery voltage is an add-on that works through Bluetooth. Strange.

The battery sense module also allows multiple controllers to synchronise.

Victron are the only manufacturer I'm aware of which give the option to sense voltage drop via cabling loses and compensate for it.

If there is something better, please advise me.

 

[BjornM]

The battery sense module also allows multiple controllers to synchronise.

Victron are the only manufacturer I'm aware of which give the option to sense voltage drop via cabling loses and compensate for it.

If there is something better, please advise me.

The Morningstar controller I currently use has sense wires for the battery voltage and the battery temperature. Since you are already connecting the charge cables to the battery, it is easy to just have the sense cables run down the same path. If you have more than one controller, you connect them together with an RS485 cable, and the sense data is shared. Even though Bluetooth sounds more modern, this is a case where I think it is strange, given how easy it is to draw a cable.

Outback controllers have battery voltage sense cables too. Probably most quality brands except Victron.

 

[BjornM]

By Battery sense, do you mean the temperature reading?

U se the Victron Temp meaure to cut iff charging from my SCC whenits cold and then a degree or two lower, the BMS cuts it off.

I don't know why its not included.

I mean battery voltage sense.

 

[scrubjaysnest]

I have 3 victron mppt cc's arriving on Saturday.

 

[pollenface]

The Morningstar controller I currently use has sense wires for the battery voltage and the battery temperature. Since you are already connecting the charge cables to the battery, it is easy to just have the sense cables run down the same path. If you have more than one controller, you connect them together with an RS485 cable, and the sense data is shared. Even though Bluetooth sounds more modern, this is a case where I think it is strange, given how easy it is to draw a cable.

Outback controllers have battery voltage sense cables too. Probably most quality brands except Victron.

Okay cool.

Have you settled on the Victron 250/70?

For what it's worth, I have 2 separate solar systems (12v & 48v) each comprised of two Victron Smartsolar units and their own battery sense modules. I agree that such a feature should be included, but I am happy with other aspects of Victron controllers which make them worth my while. With the recent drop in prices they would seem great value.

 

[BjornM]

Okay cool.

Have you settled on the Victron 250/70?

For what it's worth, I have 2 separate solar systems (12v & 48v) each comprised of two Victron Smartsolar units and their own battery sense modules. I agree that such a feature should be included, but I am happy with other aspects of Victron controllers which make them worth my while. With the recent drop in prices they would seem great value.

I'm strongly leaning towards it. Or the 250/100 model. I have a Victron inverter that I'm very happy with, so I like the brand.

I can accept the lack of sense cables. The Victron has a setting for current tapering cutoff, which will make me comfortable with using absorption (I normally go from bulk straight to float). That'll make the voltage sensing less of an issue. As the current tapers off the voltage measurement will be more and more accurate.

 

[Steve_S]

I run with Midnite Classics:
The Classic 150V model provides 94A Charge to 24V Bank, using 6x Q-Cell 395's in 2s3p (2,370W)
The Classic 200V model provides 79A Charge to 24V Bank, using 8x Candian Solar CS260P's in 4s2p (2,080W)
They work amazingly well, paralleled together and manageable (with their software).

IF I was to replace these, I'd use Victron.
I certainly would NOT go with those High Voltage (Massive array) controllers, when you consider 200-250V SCC's and the amps they can deliver versus those 600V (large array) systems that deliver less amps... 60-70 per scc in an AIO for example... Far better to generate more Charging Amps with less panels... or use more SCC's with same large array & get ALL the juice you can.

Some will want to argue that BUT do the damned math ! Thse 600V+ SCC's are designed for lots of panel at more $$ Cost at the tail end of "assembled & running cost". Sometimes the Too Obvious is completely missed.

An example, I just did an emergency rescue solar install. Small setup using a Midnite Kidd SCC. For the KIDD (150V SCC), we used 2x Q-Cell 405's (max input for a Kidd). Note the KIDD is a premium SCC because of the extra features, functions & capabilities but can only deliver 30A Charging. A Similar 150V - Victron would be cheaper & deliver more Amps for charging but still be "Panel Frugal".

 

[BjornM]

I run with Midnite Classics:
The Classic 150V model provides 94A Charge to 24V Bank, using 6x Q-Cell 395's in 2s3p (2,370W)
The Classic 200V model provides 79A Charge to 24V Bank, using 8x Candian Solar CS260P's in 4s2p (2,080W)
They work amazingly well, paralleled together and manageable (with their software).

IF I was to replace these, I'd use Victron.
I certainly would NOT go with those High Voltage (Massive array) controllers, when you consider 200-250V SCC's and the amps they can deliver versus those 600V (large array) systems that deliver less amps... 60-70 per scc in an AIO for example... Far better to generate more Charging Amps with less panels... or use more SCC's with same large array & get ALL the juice you can.

Some will want to argue that BUT do the damned math ! Thse 600V+ SCC's are designed for lots of panel at more $$ Cost at the tail end of "assembled & running cost". Sometimes the Too Obvious is completely missed.

An example, I just did an emergency rescue solar install. Small setup using a Midnite Kidd SCC. For the KIDD (150V SCC), we used 2x Q-Cell 405's (max input for a Kidd). Note the KIDD is a premium SCC because of the extra features, functions & capabilities but can only deliver 30A Charging. A Similar 150V - Victron would be cheaper & deliver more Amps for charging but still be "Panel Frugal".

Thanks Steve, good to know.

 

[Steve_S]

Thanks Steve, good to know.

MacGyver's apprentice​

Indeed, a good title... Loved that show & the MacGyvering things to work... (left over from groing up on a farm).
You'd be surprised that some folks actually "boxed my ears" when I pointed out the Obvious Folly that no one notices...
Reminds me when I told Will about AIO's years ago and he thought they were a fad ... until he got one and started playing... Ohhh so long ago... Too bad that is all he focusses on these days pretty much...

 

[BjornM]

Indeed, a good title... Loved that show & the MacGyvering things to work... (left over from groing up on a farm).
You'd be surprised that some folks actually "boxed my ears" when I pointed out the Obvious Folly that no one notices...
Reminds me when I told Will about AIO's years ago and he thought they were a fad ... until he got one and started playing... Ohhh so long ago... Too bad that is all he focusses on these days pretty much...

I'm happy you noticed. Never managed to get rich so I make use of what I have. Don't dare to show you a picture of my installation. ;-)

 

[yodamota]

Ive had morningstar, outback and victron chargers.

At times I had one of each hooked up. I could get the victron/outback charge controller to behave quite well together. The morningstar always seemed to be on another planet, especially when I had the aux output on(hot water heater) The morningstar also didn't have an absorption end amps setting, which outback/victron do.

Currently have 2 victrons and one outback. If I had the cash to bleed I would replace the outback, however it works fine. Easy to program, has aux output settings. Victron is also easy to program and has awesome aux output settings.

I do wonder what it would be like to have an all morningstar system. I had the chance to use my neighbors spare genstar charge controller. However I couldn't figure out how i was going to "use" it without buying/renting it or some type of exchange. In the end I went with a victron. The Genstars are pricy for what you get.


I also bought the little smart sense module for the victron system. I like it, No need to run wires up to the charge controller, and it also covers multiple charge controllers. Being that we might have 3 victrons in the future, we only need 2 wire leads to the busbars/battery terminals. versus having 6 wire leads to the battery/busbar... back up to the charge controllers...

 

[Samsonite801]

The battery sense module also allows multiple controllers to synchronise.

Victron are the only manufacturer I'm aware of which give the option to sense voltage drop via cabling loses and compensate for it.

If there is something better, please advise me.

I had originally pondered getting a Battery Sense when I delved into the whole Victron ecosystem, but later ditched that idea and went with a BMV-712 battery monitor with temp probe accessory, and have no regrets about it, BMV-712 also has relay to set a temp rule and control a heater which I use as well. Works nice with the BMV-712 and the 2 charge controllers synced in a network group so they stay in lockstep.

 

[Rocketman]

I believe the reason Victron does have sense wires is because it is doing a system approach.

It has them on the shunt (Smartshunt or BMV712), and uses that to pass the info to all the Solar charge controllers and the inverter/charger. It works best through DVCC (through a GX device - Cerbo), but can be Bluetooth in small systems.

If you already have the Multiplus or Quattro, finish the Victron system with the solar charge controller, shunt and Cerbo. I think you will be glad you did.

 

[BjornM]

I decided on the Victron SmartSolar 250/100. Just ordered it on Ebay, will arrive in two weeks.

I already have an Arduino connected to two current shunts here, so I can monitor the system. Might use it to connect to the BMSes and charge controller, and monitor in real time. Then I can sense when a BMS disconnects a battery, and immediately have the controller disconnect the array.

 

[Steve_S]

I decided on the Victron SmartSolar 250/100. Just ordered it on Ebay, will arrive in two weeks.

I already have an Arduino connected to two current shunts here, so I can monitor the system. Might use it to connect to the BMSes and charge controller, and monitor in real time. Then I can sense when a BMS disconnects a battery, and immediately have the controller disconnect the array.

Best part of that now days, s setting up a 250V Array doesn't take many panels.
5x Hanwa Q-Cell 480's monofacials would do it ! (they now have 500W Monfacial panels BTW).
I really like the Q-Cells as their performance in cloud & shade is quite good in comparison to many others.

Using the right Panels in combo can result in a Very Optimal config. Do consider your cloud/shading factors when looking at the panels. Price Points are moot if you get panel with poor cloud/shade handling as that can seriously hamper production. Far too many just buy the cheapest panels they can find without realizing they aren't doing themselves favours. The old "Penny Wide Dollar Foolish" just never ends, even when the evidence is in their faces.

See the specs below for some Hanwha Q-Cell...

 

[BjornM]

Best part of that now days, s setting up a 250V Array doesn't take many panels.
5x Hanwa Q-Cell 480's monofacials would do it ! (they now have 500W Monfacial panels BTW).
I really like the Q-Cells as their performance in cloud & shade is quite good in comparison to many others.

Using the right Panels in combo can result in a Very Optimal config. Do consider your cloud/shading factors when looking at the panels. Price Points are moot if you get panel with poor cloud/shade handling as that can seriously hamper production. Far too many just buy the cheapest panels they can find without realizing they aren't doing themselves favours. The old "Penny Wide Dollar Foolish" just never ends, even when the evidence is in their faces.

See the specs below for some Hanwha Q-Cell...
View attachment 187232

Yea, I've got 3 x 370 W in each string, and five strings in parallel. Cold days this gets me up to 125 V. Too close to be comfortable to the 150 V limit of my old charger had. It was already starting to limit current at that voltage.