What's the reason behind using 240V inverters with transformers when they have split phase ones?

[Nobodybusiness]

True
But that's what this forum is for.
It's a give and take for me. I help who I can. And have received help from others.

This will always happen. It's very easy to get excited about being your own power company.
My system has been built with the stuff that didn't work for them. Which has saved me a lot of money.
So, I don't really mind that they didn't come here first.
And I enjoy helping them find solutions.

You have the background to fix the deficiencies of any system.
Most don’t.

The OP ask WHY people buy 240v non split phase stuff and then have to run auto transformers instead of a Split phase inverters.

It’s price.

They see video of David Poz running whole house(supposedly) with this cheap 240v inverter and they go buy it.

No thought, no research, just knee jerk reactions.

If it was the same price as All the Tier 1 stuff they wouldn’t even look at it.

 

[timselectric]

The OP ask WHY people buy 240v non split phase stuff and then have to run auto transformers instead of a Split phase inverters.

Yes, and that's the question we have all been answering. Everyone will have different reasons.
I'm not sure why you have a problem with my answer.

It’s price.

This was the first thing on my list.
So, we are in agreement. In that regard.
But there's no "one" right answer.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

Yes, and that's the question we have all been answering. Everyone will have different reasons.
I'm not sure why you have a problem with my answer.

This was the first thing on my list.
So, we are in agreement. In that regard.
But there's no "one" right answer.

No problem other than you seem to be trying to conflate that everyone is a 40 year industrial electrician and does 6 month research, so on and so forth.
The majority of people aren’t you and henceforth buy Strictly on price.

That’s it.

Which is the original OP question I was replying too.

Why buy a bunch of 240V only inverters then have to wire in a transformer to provide the neutral when you can buy inverters already putting out split phase power

They don’t know what the inverter does or doesn’t do.
They think they slap some panels in there and Yea haw!!
They aren’t doing any research.

It’s Hey this is $900 and Sol-ark is $7000 so let’s buy this cheap one.

Has nothing to do with anything on your list for MOST people.
If that was your criteria then great.
It’s not even close to most people.

 

[timselectric]

No problem other than you seem to be trying to conflate that everyone is a 40 year industrial electrician and does 6 month research, so on and so forth.

Not sure where that's coming from.
But, ok. I surrender. You win.
I didn't see your name in the OP's question.
But maybe you assumed that your opinion was the only one they wanted.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

Not sure where that's coming from.
But, ok. I surrender. You win.
I didn't see your name in the OP's question.
But maybe you assumed that your opinion was the only one they wanted.

My only post was 7 pages in. Hardly only opinion.
While you had been on pages 1-7 commenting.

Directly after my post you had to chime in.

That is why I objected to it.

It was a direct refutation of my post like I was an idiot and everyone goes through some Research, In depth analysis before buying.

They don’t. See it everyday here on forum where they go buy this stuff because it’s Cheap. Then come complaining because they don’t know how it works.

 

[timselectric]

So my mistake was to randomly post after you. With an opinion that didn't perfectly align with yours.
I apologize, it wasn't intentional.
I'll try to be more careful, in the future.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

So my mistake was to randomly post after you. With an opinion that didn't perfectly align with yours.
I apologize, it wasn't intentional.
I'll try to be more careful, in the future.

Yes randomly.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

So my mistake was to randomly post after you. With an opinion that didn't perfectly align with yours.
I apologize, it wasn't intentional.
I'll try to be more careful, in the future.

I’m sorry for over reacting like that.

No excuses.

I’ll try to do better.

 

[HowlerMonkey]

I’m curious how much voltage relative to ground (earth) you guys are seeing on the neutral for various systems here.

 

[Zwy]

I’m curious how much voltage relative to ground (earth) you guys are seeing on the neutral for various systems here.

It should be 0V on a properly bonded system.

Make sense?

 

[HowlerMonkey]

Define “properly bonded”.
Does your statement cover all of the system types discussed here in the forum?

 

[Zwy]

Define “properly bonded”.

N-G bond at the first service disconnect only when on grid power or at the inverter under inverter power. If the inverter does not bond N-G, then N-G bond would be at the first disconnect. There are many different scenarios depending upon the inverter working characteristics and hybrid inverters like the Deye/Sun Synk which are load sharing inverters that rely on the first disconnect N-G bond but when used off grid or standalone will require a contactor to bond N-G correctly.

Any other N-G bond after that point will be a parallel path with voltage potential and 1/2 the N current back to source.

As this thread is originally about why some use a Euro style 240V inverter with an auto transformer, it brings in some other aspects. However, the rules are still the same, one N-G bond only and the voltage potential between N and G is 0V as the 2 are tied together at the bond.

If you are seeing more than 0V on a EGC, then you have a situation with a parallel path where N is connected to G after the N-G bond. This is a dangerous situation and the parallel path would need to be corrected.

Edit: Might be some confusion on the last paragraph. If 2 N-G bonds exist, there is a parallel path created by the 2nd bond. This allows current to flow on G. There will not be any measurable voltage potential between N and G as it is a parallel path.

 

[John Frum]

The vast majority of these "jiggle the handle" systems are made by first timers.
I've noticed some of them come back in 12 to 24 months more or less starting over.

Off topic: After more than 50 years I just noticed that double entendre.

 

[HowlerMonkey]

Yes, it does “make sense”.
“Transformers” is in the title with a few types discussed.

 

[timselectric]

I’m curious how much voltage relative to ground (earth) you guys are seeing on the neutral for various systems here.

Should be zero.
If you read anything else, your ground is floating.

 

[stienman]

It should be 0V on a properly bonded system.

Make sense?

Should be zero.
If you read anything else, your ground is floating.

Just want to clarify for newbies that might be reading through here, see this, and take it out of context and believe it to be true in all situations.

If you take a multimeter, and measure the voltage between the ground pin and the neutral pin on a random outlet in your house you will likely see more than 0V AC. This is because most plugs share a circuit with other plugs, the bonding happens at the circuit breaker or house power entry or inverter, and any current flowing through this circuit, for instance on other plugs, will result in a voltage drop on the neutral, which will appear as a difference from ground.

In other words, if you do this measurement anywhere other than where the ground bond occurs, don't assume your system is miswired if you see up to 10V when you measure the ground wire and neutral wire on an outlet.

If you'd like to see this actually happen, take a long extension cord, plug in a power strip, plug in a heater turned on high, then measure the ground to neutral voltage on the power strip. Then turn the heater off and take the measurement again - the voltage measurement should decrease in relation to the load current consumption.

And, as always, don't do this unless you understand the dangers of measuring AC voltage, and how to do so safely.

 

[timselectric]

Yes, it was presumed that the measurement question referenced the inverter output terminals. So, the answers were specific to this. And not to be taken out of context.

 

[HowlerMonkey]

I was hoping to see real life measurements.

 

[timselectric]

0.0v on my system.

 

[HowlerMonkey]

Point of measurement? Loads on?