Which all in one system has the fewest software issues?

[hwy17]

If you want to avoid software problems, avoid software.

Use chargers that charge, inverters that invert, etc. There are a lot of great products that will just do one thing reliably.

It doesn't have to be complicated. Until you want to intelligently mix grid power with solar power. Then it does have to be complicated, and you will have to choose some software to do that or write your own, and you will suffer that software.

 

[ksmithaz1]

I'm not sure I want EG4 servers in the middle of my monitoring. As long as everything can work without it, including configuration, I'm fine.

Yea, IMNSHO this is the Achilles heel of all these systems. The GF bought this power plug IOT thingy recently, turns out the company is gone, and there is no way to configure it. Good thing it had 'lifetime cloud service' , bad thing that the lifetime was about 3 years for the company.

This stuff should all really have a simple web interface and API, instead of something that requires access to cloud services. To that end EG4 does publish their API's for the RS-485, and my understanding is "Solar Assistant" works with it for monitoring. The unit will work just fine without being connected to the internet, and you can manage it from the display. I rolled my own with modbus.

 

[zanydroid]

Personally I’m more worried about long term parts availability than firmware. Provided the firmware initially supports what I need and I lock down updates after that.

I think with these $1500 AIO boxes you should treat them as a 5-10 year disposable thing like a TV or home entertainment. For the $5000 boxes, I’d prefer they not be, but there’s no track record yet of long term support so you just cannot say anything about what will happen.

All that said, if you are in a location that mandates firmware updates (UK? Europe? Not any place I know of yet in the U.S.) then a manufacturer GTFOing from updating firmware might be a risk that needs to be factored into lifespan, or manufacturer delivering a legally mandatory update that wrecks your setup and then GTFOing

 

[zanydroid]

Yea, IMNSHO this is the Achilles heel of all these systems. The GF bought this power plug IOT thingy recently, turns out the company is gone, and there is no way to configure it. Good thing it had 'lifetime cloud service' , bad thing that the lifetime was about 3 years for the company.

This stuff should all really have a simple web interface and API, instead of something that requires access to cloud services. To that end EG4 does publish their API's for the RS-485, and my understanding is "Solar Assistant" works with it for monitoring. The unit will work just fine without being connected to the internet, and you can manage it from the display. I rolled my own with modbus.

This is one of the things I like about Hoymiles microinverters — they have a fully documented ModBus with very expressive controls, and even the radio protocol has been reverse engineered with open source hardware modules you can use instead of their controllers. (Now I don’t know how reliable those are, but the existence of those is theoretically cool at least). And this in my mind hedged against the fact that they’re a new entrant to US market, in a segment (microinverters) that has an intrinsically higher support requirement due to the tough physics environment

I’m not sure if this carries over to their hybrid.

 

[zanydroid]

Yea, IMNSHO this is the Achilles heel of all these systems. The GF bought this power plug IOT thingy recently, turns out the company is gone, and there is no way to configure it. Good thing it had 'lifetime cloud service' , bad thing that the lifetime was about 3 years for the company.

For the smart device segment at least, there’s plenty of choices of each device type that can simply be flashed with OSS firmware.

Not sure why that hasn’t happened for solar. Probably the intersection of skill set and number of people with devices sucks compared to home automation. You basically lose all the apartment dwelling hackers as potential contributors.

 

[houseofancients]

Internet is only used for updating and monitoring, so if the internet is gone it will never pose an issue for your inverter..

I run my stack of inverters on a separated vlan ( network segment) that never has internet access unless I explicitly enable it for firmware updates

 

[ksmithaz1]

I think it's important to identify your desired outcome before you start. Next figure out how much power you need, then figure out how you want to connect it to your existing or new wiring infrastructure. That really defines the type of equipment you are going to want. Victron might indeed be the best answer if everything in your system needs to be elastic, and distributed around. If you just need a simple expandable system not connected to the grid driving a sub-panel, the AIO design is tough to beat. If the one you buy turns out to be junk, there are 5 other brands you can get that will do almost exactly the same thing, you can use as a drop-in replacement. For example, if you bought a growatt 3K decided you need something larger, you could literally rip it off the wall and cable up an EG4 or MP Solar or Power Mir or ... Since they all work basically the same, you have an appliance, and if it's cheap enough, you could just buy 2 if you were paranoid.

 

[Ampster]

I think it's important to identify your desired outcome before you start.

I agree. I had an Outback Skybox which had very few software issues and was very reliable. However there were features that I wanted and that was an outcome that was important enough for me to change to a SolArk.

 

[AZ Solar Junkie]

Great All-in-One from a hardware value perspective. I'm considering one for an outbuilding.

This is what bothers me. With Victron, I can totally ignore VRM and disconnect my internet completely, and everything still works great.
I can totally reconfigure without the internet at all.

I'm not sure I want EG4 servers in the middle of my monitoring. As long as everything can work without it, including configuration, I'm fine.

View attachment 185194

You do have the option to monitor only with Solar Assistant and do all your configuration from the LCD screen. For myself, I use both on occasion as Solar Assistant does allow you to change some of the settings remotely, but not every configuration option on the inverter is available through SA.

 

[zanydroid]

I am not 100% sure modifying from SA is safe as a general rule. I believe Marcus from EG4 said on some models SA uses unsupported APIs

 

[AZ Solar Junkie]

I am not 100% sure modifying from SA is safe as a general rule. I believe Marcus from EG4 said on some models SA uses unsupported APIs

I'm not sure if that's true or not, but it has never caused me any issues, other than that some of the configuration options in SA are not applicable to my inverter (6000xp). Other than that, changing the applicable ones works just fine.

 

[timselectric]

Using Solar Assistant to change settings is no different than using the front screen. As long as you have a product that is compatible (according to Solar Assistant) , there should be no issue.
Some manufacturers or sellers would rather you use their monitoring services. Which is perfectly understandable. But they shouldn't use scare tactics to discourage customers from using what they want.

 

[zanydroid]

Using Solar Assistant to change settings is no different than using the front screen. As long as you have a product that is compatible (according to Solar Assistant) , there should be no issue.
Some manufacturers or sellers would rather you use their monitoring services. Which is perfectly understandable. But they shouldn't use scare tactics to discourage customers from using what they want.

It’s theoretically conceivable if the screen input is properly tested, while the SA path uses engineering APIs that are for testing or whatever and not hardened for field use.

It’s hard to verify without some independent testing. Since that doesn’t exist I don’t really know whether EG4 side has the burden of proof. (That factoid was tossed out in the same thread where folks brought up that a lot of EG4 inverters lack protection on their comms board, so there’s plenty of brick root causes to spread around)

 

[timselectric]

It’s theoretically conceivable if the screen input is properly tested, while the SA path uses engineering APIs that are for testing or whatever and not hardened for field use.

It’s hard to verify without some independent testing. Since that doesn’t exist I don’t really know whether EG4 side has the burden of proof. (That factoid was tossed out in the same thread where folks brought up that a lot of EG4 inverters lack protection on their comms board, so there’s plenty of brick root causes to spread around)

I'll just say that I have never seen anyone post that Solar Assistant damaged their equipment. I don't even see how it could. It only requests changes to settings that already exist. It doesn't force the equipment to do anything that it wasn't designed to do.

 

[houseofancients]

I'll just say that I have never seen anyone post that Solar Assistant damaged their equipment. I don't even see how it could. It only requests changes to settings that already exist. It doesn't force the equipment to do anything that it wasn't designed to do.

Lol, kinds like raspberry, damaging comm boards in inverters and support/warranty..
Only EG4 /SS Comes up with crap like this

 

[Danke]

If your AIO works out of the box, is there a reason to do a firmware update? I don’t plan on connecting my system to the Internet.

 

[zanydroid]

I'll just say that I have never seen anyone post that Solar Assistant damaged their equipment. I don't even see how it could. It only requests changes to settings that already exist. It doesn't force the equipment to do anything that it wasn't designed to do.

The hidden / engineering APIs could have race conditions in updating the state that gives the config state a stroke.

How likely this will be to permanently brick things, and in a way that a hard factory reset won't fix, is a good question.

Lol, kinds like raspberry, damaging comm boards in inverters and support/warranty..

It's totally believable for a Raspberry on a random non-isolated supply bought from Amazon to blow up an unprotected comms board. I don't know who's the asshole with moral / legal responsibility here -- SA, EG4, the company, or the noob DIYer. The asshole score probably has to be allocated in percentages across the board.

 

[Ampster]

If your AIO works out of the box, is there a reason to do a firmware update?

Not unless there is a feature in the latest firmware upgrade that you want or fixes a bug.

 

[Culchee]

I am in the same boat, I seems like not only solar AIO systems have firmware issues but everything else made today like cars, appliances, and all computers. I currently have a 12v system with 2 charge controllers one 2000w inverter and 2 200ah batteries. It all works without any connection to internet. I would like to step up to 48v with the new 6000xp. I think I will wait it out till the shit hits the fan. It seems like all of the newer AIO’s are obsolete in two years. I am thinking instead getting 2 Victron cc, Samplex inverter and a SOK rack battery without communication . Just keep it simple.
if the internet goes down who knows it could brick all systems that connect I think we are headed for some strange times very soon

Have you come across the Blue Mesh network... dumb may end up being the new smart...

 

[houseofancients]

If your AIO works out of the box, is there a reason to do a firmware update? I don’t plan on connecting my system to the Internet.

Sometimes, if one wants new features, or runs in to a bug that is firmware fixable