Wire larger than supported by breaker?

[cm119]

I'm guessing the actual permit pulling electrician for this job hasn't been to site to check anything.

Funny story. The electrician doing the panel upgrade had no idea what he was in for, the solar guys didn’t explain this setup to him before he arrived on the job. They didn’t have a very good plan either, so I could tell they were scrambling trying to get the work done and power turned back on. I was told they would have an inspection in the afternoon. Then at the end of the day I asked again about the inspection, and they said ‘oh he came at 9am, and just signed us off, we work with him all the time and he knows our work.’ So the solar contractor, electrician, and inspector have all dropped the ball here. The inspector has since been back once for the underground inspection, but I’m not sure if he looked into the panel at that time. Final is this week, if the contractor says it’s fine I’ll have to ask the inspector directly.

 

[timselectric]

Funny story. The electrician doing the panel upgrade had no idea what he was in for, the solar guys didn’t explain this setup to him before he arrived on the job. They didn’t have a very good plan either, so I could tell they were scrambling trying to get the work done and power turned back on. I was told they would have an inspection in the afternoon. Then at the end of the day I asked again about the inspection, and they said ‘oh he came at 9am, and just signed us off, we work with him all the time and he knows our work.’ So the solar contractor, electrician, and inspector have all dropped the ball here. The inspector has since been back once for the underground inspection, but I’m not sure if he looked into the panel at that time. Final is this week, if the contractor says it’s fine I’ll have to ask the inspector directly.

Definitely do that.
You will need a full list of accomplices for the law suit. lol

 

[cm119]

Definitely do that.
You will need a full list of accomplices for the law suit. lol

Is there any specific code I can reference here? I.e. can conductors at the end of a wire be cut/modified? Do all four poles of a quad ganged breaker need to be filled? Can wire gauge be used that is not specified by the breaker manufacturer? I would assume these are all no-nos, but would like to have evidence in case they try to tell me something like ‘this is fine we do it all the time’.

 

[timselectric]

Is there any specific code I can reference here? I.e. can conductors at the end of a wire be cut/modified? Do all four poles of a quad ganged breaker need to be filled? Can wire gauge be used that is not specified by the breaker manufacturer? I would assume these are all no-nos, but would like to have evidence in case they try to tell me something like ‘this is fine we do it all the time’.

You can not cut strands or reduce the size of a conductor. Unless it's done with a UL rated adapter.
The breaker has an allowable conductor size range that it's UL rated for.
That is a parallel rated breaker. It's current rating is based on the usage of all poles.
If the inspector is their buddy. He or she might let some things slide (hopefully not to this degree).
But if you press the points that I have made above. They won't risk their career on the buddy system.

 

[Quattrohead]

A perfect example of....how to do it 100% wrong.
The sparky, solar company and inspector should all be thrown off the job site and reported.

 

[Bluedog225]

In my experience, once they start down the shitty, cutting corners path and get called out for it, they fix the thing you’re looking at and get the heck out of Dodge. I know it’s not pleasant, but you want the chief electrical guy to come review the whole job because you’ve lost faith in the inspection process. He probably won’t come out, but he’ll send an inspector he trusts to check it out. That’s what you need to be comfortable your house and gonna burn down. Good luck.

 

[summit]

That is a parallel rated breaker. It's current rating is based on the usage of all poles.

haven't thought about this until now. But does one over current breaker trip all paralled breakers ? say a common double-pole 30A 240vac for 10-3 awg, a shorted or high-current of 40A L1 alone would trip the double pole right ?

 

[Mattb4]

Once they broke the main breaker it becomes their responsibility to replace it. Regardless of any of the other glaring issues.

 

[rhino]

The other concern is what the rest of the system may look like. This is just pic of one breaker, if they thought this was okay you have to wonder what else they thought is okay. Hopefully you can get a reliable inspector that can look over entire system.

Have you inspected rest of system? Maybe post pics of any other connections they made, or even outside and inside pics of the Sol-Ark where they made connections.

 

[SparkyJJO]

haven't thought about this until now. But does one over current breaker trip all paralled breakers ? say a common double-pole 30A 240vac for 10-3 awg, a shorted or high-current of 40A L1 alone would trip the double pole right ?

Yes that's why the handles are tied together.

 

[timselectric]

haven't thought about this until now. But does one over current breaker trip all paralled breakers ? say a common double-pole 30A 240vac for 10-3 awg, a shorted or high-current of 40A L1 alone would trip the double pole right ?

Yes

 

[CoolWill]

Main panel was replaced as part of the project. They re-used the old breakers, including that very old one. The rest of the breakers aren’t that old, just this one.

In a pinch during an emergency call that might be OK, but you should insist they not only install the 200 amp breaker correctly, but that all the breakers installed during the panel swap be new as well.

 

[Bkord]

I think to run parallel you would need 1/0 or bigger. I’m surprised a breaker like that is even made whith small lugs.

 

[squowse]

I’m in the middle of an install by a solar contractor, and have a question on how they have the main panel breaker wired. This is a SolArk install, so the SA is powering the entire panel via the main 200A breaker. They specified 3/0 copper cable, but the 4-lug main breaker doesn’t support that large of cable, so they trimmed down some conductors to fit. They are only using 2 of the 4 lugs. Any concerns or code violations with this? They also have one of the screws pretty mangled, lost another one, then broke one lug completely off the breaker.

View attachment 147847

That breaker doesn’t look like it has the right connections for 200A. Would expect something much more heavy duty. Either a post for crimp rings or the ones with a captive plate on a screw thread. I forget what they’re called. Should be able to take 50mm2 cables minimum for that current

 

[zanydroid]

They re-used the old breakers, including that very old one. The rest of the breakers aren’t that old, just this one.

This is pretty cringe esp if they retained existing mixed breakers. A regular breaker is like $1 per amp at retail and could be much cheaper in a starter pack or probably also wholesale.

 

[cs1234]

Imagine if they charge by the breaker installed also.. lol.

 

[zanydroid]

Imagine if they charge by the breaker installed also.. lol.

That’s reasonable for AFCI and GFCI given how much those cost.

Around here the proposals imply regular breakers for free with a panel change.