XW Pro 6848 with generator issue after firmware update

[buzzlix1]

I have used an XW Pro 6848 with XW MPPT 100, Schneider Home Insight, Context AGS and KiloVault HAB 7.5 for the last 3 years in an off-grid application to power a full time small residence. I use a Westinghouse 9500DF with propane fuel only. I haven't had a problem with any of this until a firmware upgrade a couple of weeks ago. My generator kicked on after a low voltage trigger from my battery one evening and I noticed clicking from my Back-UPS that runs my internet connection for just in case purposes. After further investigation over a few days I found that when my generator kicks on it starts fine at ~121v to my household outlets, but after a few minutes the voltage starts to drop slowly (probably 1v every couple of minutes) until finally it hits around 107-106v and my UPS clicks and other things plugged in around the house behave irregularly. The generator is set to run at around 3KWh. Let me know what else I need to include here for a better response. I am new to solar power, I live off grid. I am not sure if the firmware upgrade messed with settings. I can access everything through InsightLocal. I am really trying to figure out if this is an inverter problem or a generator problem. The generator has around 25 hours on it, and is roughly 3 years old. The only other thing that changed was that I got a propane refill of my house tank and they filled past the 80% they typically do when refilling. The outlet at the generator also shows the voltage drop to match the house outlets if that helps.

 

[hwy17]

Either the generator is acting differently than it used to, or the XW is reacting differently than it used to.

You could just downgrade back to the old firmware and try that. If everything was working for you before.

There aren't really security threats on a xanbus network, so when everything's working there's no need to update to the latest firmware on the XW. Whereas with the Insightlocal being an internet connected network device it's worth regularly updating the insight firmware.

 

[buzzlix1]

Thanks for the reply. I contemplated reverting back to the old firmware but don't know what version I was on, it was never updated after being installed summer 2021. I also don't know where to get it as Schneider's website isn't the most user friendly. Any ideas on where to go for the old versions?

 

[400bird]

I saved some old firmware versions. Did you update both the XW and insight?

The generator sets the voltage, the XW is just sucking down some amps, right?
Maybe somehow it's pulling down the generator output voltage. Set your low voltage threshold higher, see if the XW disconnects and what the generator and house voltage settle to.

Also, depending on how old your firmware was, there may be major changes. Have you gone through all your settings, line by line? Any chance you are pulling more than the 3kW you had previously programmed?

 

[dougbert]

how clean is the generator? XW Pro needs fairly clean power

alternative is to use generator to power a Chargeverter directly to the battery, instead of the charger in the XW Pro being used

 

[BentleyJ]

The outlet at the generator also shows the voltage drop to match the house outlets if that helps.

Gen power would normally just be passing through the inverter and since voltage drop is indicated on the generator display as well the issue most probably its originating in the generator.

The generator is set to run at around 3KWh

How is the generator set to run at about 3kW?

I'll second what @400bird said. There is a good chance the firmware upgrade reset some of the parameters. For example if max charge current went to the full 140A that would be 7500W plus whatever other loads there are. The generator is rated at 8500W on Propane fuel. Your post indicates Colorado so elevation further reduces gen output.

Are you using the Gen Support feature on the inverter? Maybe it was reset with the firmware upgrade.

What are the Amps or Watts on the gen display when the voltage sag occurs? It sounds like the generator may be overloaded, if not then there is a problem with AVR. Or perhaps the throttle control but that would show up as a low frequency issue since the gen model is conventional and not an inverter type.

 

[MichaelK]

I'd suggest that Bentley has the right conclusion. The upgrade might have reset the generator amps to the default of 140A, which might be too high even for a big generator.

Try starting the generator first, and let it warm up for a couple of minutes. Then attempt to bring generator charging online. Listen carefully for sound changes with the generator. As you commence generator charging, there will be a blinking green LED on the XW. That means the inverter is sensing the generator power. This is when you carefully listen to the sound. Does the generator suddenly sound like it's being loaded down? The green light should stop blinking and be steady if the inverter is accepting the power.

If the generator does NOT qualify the power, you will hear another sound change, with the load being dropped. The green LED will start blinking again. If this is what's happening, the inverter is saying that the quality of the power is not high enough, either voltage, frequency, ect.

At this point, go into your generator settings, and drop the percentage down to a very low level, say 5-10%. That would be equal to 7-14 charging amps. Wait a minute or so for the inverter to attempt another generator sync. You should here the generator sound pitch change again as the load is applied.

If it stays linked, you can now ratchet up the amperage settings minute by minute. Incrementally increase the load a few amps at a time. You'll hear a slight change in the generator running as the load increases. At some point, the inverter will kick off the generator again. Remember this set point, and keep it below that point from now on.

Keep in mind though that if the generator starts again from a cold start, that set point might still be a bit too high for a cold-start. You'll have to emperically determine what setting works for you.

 

[buzzlix1]

First and foremost, thanks to all of you for such timely responses and helpful posts. This has been my best forum experience thus far. I am going to reply to everything here, but spoiler alert...I fixed the problem with the help of the first reply.

I saved some old firmware versions. Did you update both the XW and insight?

The generator sets the voltage, the XW is just sucking down some amps, right?
Maybe somehow it's pulling down the generator output voltage. Set your low voltage threshold higher, see if the XW disconnects and what the generator and house voltage settle to.

Also, depending on how old your firmware was, there may be major changes. Have you gone through all your settings, line by line? Any chance you are pulling more than the 3kW you had previously programmed?

I did not upgrade the InsightHome, and that could have been part of the problem. Yes, the XW was just pulling amps. I went through all of the settings, and everything was correct after I had to tweak them back to where they were before the firmware upgrade. I know that it was pulling 3kW as that is what the inverter status page said on InsightLocal.

how clean is the generator? XW Pro needs fairly clean power

I don't really know how to answer this but I would assume it is clean as the generator worked flawlessly for the past 2.5+ years.

Gen power would normally just be passing through the inverter and since voltage drop is indicated on the generator display as well the issue most probably its originating in the generator.

How is the generator set to run at about 3kW?

I'll second what @400bird said. There is a good chance the firmware upgrade reset some of the parameters. For example if max charge current went to the full 140A that would be 7500W plus whatever other loads there are. The generator is rated at 8500W on Propane fuel. Your post indicates Colorado so elevation further reduces gen output.

Are you using the Gen Support feature on the inverter? Maybe it was reset with the firmware upgrade.

What are the Amps or Watts on the gen display when the voltage sag occurs? It sounds like the generator may be overloaded, if not then there is a problem with AVR. Or perhaps the throttle control but that would show up as a low frequency issue since the gen model is conventional and not an inverter type.

The generator was set to run at 3kW by using the new 'generator import active power' setting under the power control tab.

I was using the gen support feature and trimmed the amps anywhere from 0-24 (gen fuse rating 30amp). It would allow the generator to run at a lower kW rating without voltage drop. I found that running it @1.1kW kept the outlet voltage at ~ 118.5v without any drops. But this generator input kW rating would waste a lot of propane to charge my HAB 7.5 back to full versus what it was previously pulling before the firmware upgrade, with no problems.

The voltage on the generator display was 260v when the house outlet voltage was dropping. At the time of the generator display reading the house outlets were reading 113v. There is no amps or wattage display on the generator that I can find.

I'd suggest that Bentley has the right conclusion. The upgrade might have reset the generator amps to the default of 140A, which might be too high even for a big generator.

Try starting the generator first, and let it warm up for a couple of minutes. Then attempt to bring generator charging online. Listen carefully for sound changes with the generator. As you commence generator charging, there will be a blinking green LED on the XW. That means the inverter is sensing the generator power. This is when you carefully listen to the sound. Does the generator suddenly sound like it's being loaded down? The green light should stop blinking and be steady if the inverter is accepting the power.

If the generator does NOT qualify the power, you will hear another sound change, with the load being dropped. The green LED will start blinking again. If this is what's happening, the inverter is saying that the quality of the power is not high enough, either voltage, frequency, ect.

At this point, go into your generator settings, and drop the percentage down to a very low level, say 5-10%. That would be equal to 7-14 charging amps. Wait a minute or so for the inverter to attempt another generator sync. You should here the generator sound pitch change again as the load is applied.

If it stays linked, you can now ratchet up the amperage settings minute by minute. Incrementally increase the load a few amps at a time. You'll hear a slight change in the generator running as the load increases. At some point, the inverter will kick off the generator again. Remember this set point, and keep it below that point from now on.

Keep in mind though that if the generator starts again from a cold start, that set point might still be a bit too high for a cold-start. You'll have to emperically determine what setting works for you.

I appreciate the response here but it wasn't that the generator was dropping qualification from the inverter, in fact that was part of the oddness of the whole thing. Even though my outlets were testing at low voltages, the inverter always qualified and ran the generator and showed a consistent AC2 L1 & L2 voltage of around 119-122v on the XW Pro status page on InsighLocal. And, while the generator was running, if something with higher demand started in the house (well pump @ 2kwh) the house outlet voltage would go up to 122 and stay until the load dropped out (usually about 3 minutes) and then the voltage would start dropping again.

So, to recap. When I updated the XW PRO 6848 to firmware version 2.04 it really screwed with the backup generator voltage although it did not show it on the status display in InsightLocal. My InsightHome firmware was version 1.17, I did not update it at the same time I updated the XW Pro. That was my beginner status in the solar world, or in updating complimenting electronic components, shining through. I decided to listen what hwy17 said and went on Schnieder's website and downloaded the XW PRO 6868 firmware version 1.11 BN49. I turned everything to standby, reset the XW inverter to factory settings, loaded the old firmware, set up inverter and charger setting per KiloVault recommendations, refreshed all the components, put everything back to operating mode, and just got done running the generator at 4kW (according to the status display page of the XW Pro on InsighLocal) for 30 minutes with no issue. No voltage drop, no cutting off, nothing. I may retest the firmware upgrades by downloading and installing both the XW Pro and the InsightHome updates at some point in the future to see if that fixes the weird voltage issues, but as of now I am leaving it as is so I can get on with other projects I need to complete. Thanks again for all the replies and the help!

 

[JBertok]

That makes sense actually. I believe Schneider was having problems with generator users staying AC2 qualified running on Generator. Your experience suggests they may have loosened up the qualification parameters.
As far at the firmware version programming errata, there are a few threads ongoing with people experiencing firmware version change-related unpredictable behavior when settings created with one version are inherited running under another. It's more of a version compatibility issue the the settings than a firmware functionality issue, in my experience.

 

[400bird]

If you do decide to update again later, I'm pretty sure there are required Insight updates to work with the XW updates.

Glad you got it working again.