Got Busted by Electrical Power Police..Now Need help with Permits

[Ampster]

So apparently there are statues

At least according to Illinois ComEd. There are fifty states and every state has their own penal code

 

[timselectric]

Is ComEd a governing entity?
I have statutes in my home (house rules).
But, they wouldn't hold up in a court of law.

 

[ncsolarelectric]

This is the kind of post that people read and think is true. There is no statute in Arizona. If you could post just one state with a statute on this.

The power lines are not publicly owned. At the very least it's trespassing on lines owned by a corporation. The Federal and State Utility Commission have all the power of a superior court to enforce rules and regulations. Connecting your inverter to their power lines without an agreement is prohibited, but I suggest you ask a laywer about that statute sht.

 

[niktak11]

You have no idea what you are stating.
Line power connected to an open grid transmits thousands of volts to the line.
Unless the line transformer connected to your house is disconnected... the common event is lines are down somewhere, and the grid is disconnected at a transmission point. Leaving ALL LINES hot when backfeeding as they repair the short or damage.

Wouldn't the inverter be powering all the homes "downstream" of the downed line though?

 

[ncsolarelectric]

At least according to Illinois ComEd. There are fifty states and every state has their own penal code

So I know two CA Lawyers who have been working in solar with the CPUC, utilities and FERC. I put the question to them to define what statutes control interconnection agreements in CA. I'll get back to you when I get an answer.

 

[Supervstech]

Wouldn't the inverter be powering all the homes "downstream" of the downed line though?

Yes.

 

[burgerking]

What if you install a under/over voltage delay relay (like this one), will that be enough to ensure inverter is completely disconnected from the grid?

 

[newbostonconst]

I know DTE in Michigan showed up within a half hour of my testing my system and back feeding the grid once my permit was approved.

I also mistakenly during that 2008 big power outage flipped the wrong breaker on my 50kwh diesel generator and back feed the grid and it tripped the 200 amp breaker back off in a second.....I really doubt there is a residential inverter that can back feeding the grid and stay running. All you couch/keyboard engineers please prove me wrong....Laughing....don't get offended....I am wrong most times also...Have a great day...

I do agree you shouldn't back feed and even for a split and think the back feed through the step down transformer will become a step up transformer when back feeding creating a quick voltage spike on the high voltage line.

 

[Ampster]

What if you install a under/over voltage delay relay

If you install a UL approved GT inverter it will disconnect automatically when the grid is down..Your solution does not work in the case of an off grid inverter because the off grid inverter has no test for the grid and will power the relay allowing the off grid inverter to power the grid.

 

[Ampster]

I put the question to them to define what statutes control interconnection agreements in CA

You have already given those statutes in another thread. The operative question in that thread was what statute other than the building code makes it illegal to install a grid tie inverter that is limited to non export. I suspect it is illegal to connect an off grid inverter to the grid. It all depends on how you frame the issue. I do acknowledge in your state that it is illegal as you have said.

 

[120vjohn]

Islanding maybe a problem if multiple systems are connected to that section of grid, and provide enough power for local load.
I had that problem with several over 10 kw systems that power an entire street in island status.
In that case total power was around 100kw, if a line man attempts to short the line to ground he risks severe burns.

I do not know grid policies in US, but in Europe registered Pv system owners have almost no commercial rights, grid owners keep all benefit for their own.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

can easily get a lineworker killed

That’s an inaccurate part. When stuff shuts down when grid disappears it’s not a hazardous situation

 

[Mike 134]

I know DTE in Michigan showed up within a half hour of my testing my system and back feeding the grid once my permit was approved.

All you couch/keyboard engineers please prove me wrong....Laughing....don't get offended....I am wrong most times also...Have a great day...

 

[Supervstech]

That’s an inaccurate part. When stuff shuts down when grid disappears it’s not a hazardous situation

Without tested equipment, backfeeding may not shutdown.
And backfeeding when grid is down is dangerous.

Sure, as long as the equipment DOES shut down when grid fails it is safe...

 

[Supervstech]

But would still be illegal without a contract.

 

[Ampster]

But would still be illegal without a contract.

In California I can get a building permit for a GT solar system and that permit does not specify that I have to enter into a contract with my power company. If it is operated in a zero export mode it may not be illegal in California. Other states may have different laws.

 

[Mike 134]

In California I can get a building permit for a GT solar system and that permit does not specify that I have to enter into a contract with my powered company. If it is operated in a zero export mode it may not be illegal in California. Other states may have different laws.

I'll bet you dinner if your equipment is not on this list you don't get a permit.

Solar Equipment List - CA Energy Commission

solarequipment.energy.ca.gov

 

[Ampster]

I'll bet you dinner if your equipment is not on this list you don't get a permit.

Correct, to get a permit it has to be on the CEC list. If other states do not have a list I would guess UL listed equipment would be the requirement. A lot of the zero export installs reported here are probably not UL listed and therefore illegal.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

The power lines are not publicly owned. At the very least it's trespassing on lines owned by a corporation. The Federal and State Utility Commission have all the power of a superior court to enforce rules and regulations. Connecting your inverter to their power lines without an agreement is prohibited, but I suggest you ask a laywer about that statute sht.

some lines are publicly owned. REMC power lines are, or at least were when I left my state back in the day. just because a provider makes a rule does not equate to a law. the only way to actually know is consult your local county or city office and ask to see said "laws" in writing. I would guess the negligence clause would get you generally speaking though.

 

[Paul_R]

Power companies own easements to every service they provide. It really doesn't matter if there are statutes or laws relating to solar interconnection or not. The power company owns your service, not you. You'll play by their rules or you won't play. And the law is on their side.