Does Solar Pay for Itself? Is it worth it?

[Risky Rob]

You are correct….The tightening of laws and regulations will happen. The method by which most laws come into play is the work of a skilled bunch of very well paid critters , known as LOBBYIST and Lawyers…
The big utility companies will not go peacefully into that goodnight.…..They will nip away at DIY and reform it into somthing they can control , regulate and profit from.

it’s always been that way …

On the other hand, DIY types are becoming a rare breed. Many young people can't change a tire, much less build a solar power system. The average age here is probably 60.

 

[Texas-Mark]

If well thought out. It easily pays for itself in a short time.

Define "short time". And what are your electric rates?

 

[JRH]

On the other hand, DIY types are becoming a rare breed. Many young people can't change a tire, much less build a solar power system. The average age here is probably 60.

The average person in this forum , ( not the real experts) is probably a decade ahead of the general public in knowledge of this topic…maybe more…in coming years this will be a real valued life skill.
It is not an easy acquisition of knowledge ,and will be avoided by all but the few.

The lazy of society always depend on the “ doers” of the world ,to pave the way…
in other words ,we are all part of a special group here , however much we disagree ,squabble and bicker about a certain “nerdy “point , concept or technique…..Ha.

 

[timselectric]

Define "short time". And what are your electric rates?

7 to 10 years.
$0.17 / kwh

 

[Risky Rob]

The average person in this forum , ( not the real experts) is probably a decade ahead of the general public in knowledge of this topic…maybe more…in coming years this will be a real valued life skill.
It is not an easy acquisition of knowledge ,and will be avoided by all but the few.

The lazy of society always depend on the “ doers” of the world ,to pave the way…
in other words ,we are all part of a special group here , however much we disagree ,squabble and bicker about a certain “nerdy “point , concept or technique…..Ha.

Have you noticed the influx of people here that aren't really DIY types? Some people's solution is to simply throw money.

 

[burgerking]

I spent the equivalent of ~6 years worth of electricity now*, so I pay minimal electric bill for the next 10~20 years.
PLUS I gain the benefit of a silent and automatic generator which alone is worth ~$4,000.

*Of course I will still be spending a little here and there in the future on "parts upgrade" and what not.

 

[timselectric]

Whatever their reason for being here. They are hopefully gaining knowledge, and that's always a good thing.

 

[Solar Guppy]

Have you noticed the influx of people here that aren't really DIY types? Some people's solution is to simply throw money.

There are worse ways to throw money at than RE projects

 

[Vigo]

I don't care where people start as long as they are willing to learn and don't shoot the messenger when they find out that there's a reason people who know a lot also charge a lot. It's not a subject you can master overnight, in a month, or in a year.

I'm 38, and while i've been planning to make this 'jump' for at least a couple years and have been interested in 'energy' (technology/policy/et al) for most of my life, I only started pulling triggers in january or february of this year. I've had a quick 'uptake' because of my technical background in cars (which is almost all DC except for low-power sensor circuits and EV charging/motor control stuff which i have relatively little hands-on with). But, i have a ton to learn and even knowing what i already know, i didn't realize how much this topic would be consuming all my 'spare' brainpower for the forseeable future.

Recently I traded a forklift for a pile of stuff including 3000lb of used FLA deep cycles (2000lb of which now hooked to my house) and 4 pallets of used solar panels, more than half broken but still probably ~7kw unbroken (rated, anyway), including ~104 68w panels i'll start using in the near future. It was fortuitous because a guy came to look at the forklift and from the car he drove in, what he was wearing, how he talked etc i really couldn't tell much about him (which is fine!) and he didn't want the forklift for cash, so i happened to ask if he wanted to trade anything and he said 'what are you looking for?'. Well that's the hard part because im so flush with mechanical ability and space to keep things that i can think of a way to use almost anything.. eventually. AKA hoarder. Turns out he had a whole yard full of stuff i wanted because he's an electrician that primarily does solar! Turns out the yard full of stuff i drive by every day on my way to the school i teach at. Turns out this guy had actually taken some of the automotive classes at the program i teach at, AS WELL AS going through the renewable energy program, which is what he ended up doing. He's in his 30s like me but more like 31, running this cool little solar business! So it was a heartwarming set of coincidences and a great connection to make.

I guess if you're looking for the next generation of renewable energy people, vocational training programs are a good place to start that search. Even car people like me are 1/2 way there without realizing it just from the technical background. My buddy who's in HVAC.. same thing. Anywhere people have to understand electricity to do their jobs, it's just a hop skip and jump to putting up your own little grid and being a part of all this.

 

[JRH]

Have you noticed the influx of people here that aren't really DIY types? Some people's solution is to simply throw money.

Yess….this DIY forum is most definitely a culling process …I would say a great deal drop out after exploring It , as is the right thing to do if you don’t feel comfortable. but it’s helpful if one has a few bucks ,some brains and a bit of mechanical intuition or background.
Rarely is anything worthwhile, easy or cheap.
The industry will have to lower the bar for the required ability to build a good system to be able to sell it to the masses..

AIO ,and simpler products is the most likely future for wide spread public appeal.( if you can pay the system ) to give you a permit… Haa
the simpler they get ,the more they will sell.

 

[BentleyJ]

Have you noticed the influx of people here that aren't really DIY types? Some people's solution is to simply throw money.

I've noticed. I take it as a positive sign that people are finally waking up to the reality of not being able to rely on the "system" which was created to steal wealth not promote freedom and prosperity of the people.

 

[JRH]

I've noticed. I take it as a positive sign that people are finally waking up to the reality of not being able to rely on the "system" which was created to steal wealth not promote freedom and prosperity of the people.

And still 99..5 % ( or more) of the 350 million in the US are totally oblivious to what’s a real possibility . If we ever got to a 5 % of population demand on product , you will likely never receive anything else inside of a few years..At 10% ,forget it,unless you already have it.

 

[tailsawaggin]

Comparing my total electricity spend per year from before and after the solar installation, my system began life with a 13.5 year break-even time. I suspect the real time will be less, but without a lot of math and knowing what my rates would be on a non-TOU plan, I can't say what the real span will be.

 

[EliteSolar]

With the current price around 50cents per kwhr and going up , my batteryless 3.2kw system will pay off in less than a year LOL but I live in Greece which is very sunny. Funny thing is they are not even orianted 30 degrees but flat.

 

[JWLV]

Leasing solar is almost never a good idea. These companies are not in it to lose money. The federal tax credit for solar doesn't even belong to you. It belongs to the leasing company because they own the solar system, not you. So they get a nice hefty tax credit for each and every system they install. At the end of the lease (20 or 30 years), they still own it. At that time, you can choose to have them remove it or you can buy it from them. The buyout price (usually around $10k-$15k) isn't worth it either since the useful life of a solar panel is less than 20 years.

I don't know about other parts of the country or world, but my electricity rates (Las Vegas, Nevada) hardly ever change. About 20 years ago it was 11 cents per kw. Now it's about 12.5 cents per kw. That certainly is no where near what leasing companies increases are yearly (3% or more).

 

[Goboatingnow]

Everytime I plug the solar PV costs into my long running spreadsheet , it’s returns 10 years plus return on capital. System install costs are rising if I want grid tied plus FIT ( and the gov 20 % grant, ) , I can’t DIY

My home is 1800sq feet modern 4 bed detached , dual tariff day and night saver electricity ( all washing dishwasher , water heating at night )these costings includes charging my Leaf !!!

10 year plus ROI is bunkum, especially if you factor in opportunity costs of money.

I can buy shed loads of power from the grid , and a few more vacations instead for the capital costs.

 

[houseofancients]

On the other hand, DIY types are becoming a rare breed. Many young people can't change a tire, much less build a solar power system. The average age here is probably 60.

erm, i should hope not , i do realize i look well beyond my age, but this is on the border of not being nice

 

[timselectric]

Wow, it's been quite a while since I was on the low end of the average age of a group. lol

 

[peakbagger]

Leasing solar is almost never a good idea. These companies are not in it to lose money. The federal tax credit for solar doesn't even belong to you. It belongs to the leasing company because they own the solar system, not you. So they get a nice hefty tax credit for each and every system they install. At the end of the lease (20 or 30 years), they still own it. At that time, you can choose to have them remove it or you can buy it from them. The buyout price (usually around $10k-$15k) isn't worth it either since the useful life of a solar panel is less than 20 years.

I don't know about other parts of the country or world, but my electricity rates (Las Vegas, Nevada) hardly ever change. About 20 years ago it was 11 cents per kw. Now it's about 12.5 cents per kw. That certainly is no where near what leasing companies increases are yearly (3% or more).

A minor complaint about your post. The useful life of a solar panel is far longer than 20 years. I had built a 2.2 KW array out of used Siemens panels that I replaced. They were 16 years old when I sold them for reuse at a couple of off grid camps and kept a few for my own use. Its six years later and every one of them are still cranking out near within 10% of nameplate despite having some EVA issues and are now 23 years old. These are mono panels. I also have set of Sharp amorphous panels 21 years old on my original array and they are still putting out within 10%. The twenty year life issue for commercial purposes like a lease is an accounting assumption rather than a real world issue. Accountants need to depreciate the value of a system when they calculate life of system and a generally accepted accounting number for solar arrays is 20 years. In theory at the end of life of the array they want it to be worthless as if there is residual value they have to do extra paperwork and possibly there are tax consequences. The basis for 20 year life was many panel companies supplied 20 year warranty. The other financial assumption is early inverters used large capacitors and capacitors have finite life that averaged out to 10 years, thus most financial models have the panels lasting for 20 years with an initial inverter purchase and a subsequent replacement 10 years out. Going by that assumption in 20 years the inverters would need to b replaced in 20 years. To date is my experience is by installing my inverters in cool basement and oversizing the inverters is I have had a considerably longer life than 10 years on my three arrays. Array 1 inverter made it 17 years before failure (caps are good but an IC chip is bad), Array 2 inverter is 15 years old and still ticking and array 3 is about 10 years old.

 

[Zwy]

I've noticed. I take it as a positive sign that people are finally waking up to the reality of not being able to rely on the "system" which was created to steal wealth not promote freedom and prosperity of the people.

Not sure on what you exactly mean but I can tell you after running a business for over 35 years that having electrical service is/was pretty important to the success of that business. The electricity purchased was leveraged to produce a final product/service where the cost of that electricity was minimal to the final cost structure of the final product/service.

As for residential power, the benefits are pretty substantial; this is why members are installing a solar system, this is to maintain the standard of living they currently enjoy as energy prices continue to increase.

Do I think the "system" as you call it, was created to steal wealth? No, the system was created to increase productivity, increase comfort and allow for a higher standard of living. It achieved those goals with electrification of the country. It is only now that raw energy costs have increased due to several factors which I won't get into. Much of it involves politics and those in power looking to gain more power at the expense of personal freedom.