CA RESIDENTS: I am seeking advice. NEM 2/3? EV CHARGING? OFFGRID? ETC

[noy897]

OK.

So the ideas we tossed around, about buying a UL9540 system and then using that to juice up your export value using "Forced Export" mode to push it out during peak. With DIY install the break even was somewhere >8 years when I last calculated it. So add 50-100% to that for professional install.

Those systems should be getting a lot cheaper in the next few years, so you'll probably lose money long term as an early adopter.

Another thing that will mess with the long term financial modeling is the income-based minimum charges that will start next year.

Do take a look at the efficiency improvements. Portable AC, maybe other stuff like insulation. Those 24x7 couple 100W loads really add up to $$.

Do you know any companies in the bay area that can do this?

 

[400bird]

So you guys are saying I can hire a DIY solar tech

DIY = do it yourself
Not sure how you'd hire someone to do it yourself

 

[zanydroid]

Do you know any companies in the bay area that can do this?

For solar & storage it would be hard to find a licensed contractor for less than the markup I quoted. You'd probably have to do some shady craigslist deal (dunno how those work, probably bypasses IRS or state tax board and passes the savings to you), maybe use one of those plans companies that will help you find a contractor (forgoing warranty), or wait for the economy/solar market to tank

I'm not sure I would want a cut rate contractor / random unlicensed person installing batteries and DC strings at my house.

There are some home efficiency contractors.

With such a high COLA/cost of contractors here, DIY is not a bad way to save money (does take a lot of hours of learning)

 

[zanydroid]

OK, in three years when there are bomb proof cheap UL9540 AC batteries that copy the PowerWall form factor and protection level... Sure I'll let a random person install that. They'll probably mess up the CTs but I'll fix that myself.

 

[Hedges]

So you guys are saying I can hire a DIY solar tech (with permits ofc) to install solar on my roof + battery and have this setup completely off-grid and I won't get kicked off NEM 2.0?

If that is the case, I can make a complete off-grid setup just to power all the random stuff in our home light lights, tv, etc

Not just random stuff, 100% of the house.

Consider your PG&E service presently goes to a 200A main breaker panel which has all your branch circuit breakers.

Install a new 200A main breaker only or fused disconnect.
Fan out from there to a fused disconnect for your existing GT PV,
A 200A SolArk with battery and added PV,
An interlocked "generator" input of your existing main panel, for use if SolArk fails.

Output of SolArk goes to your exist main panel.

SolArk can programmed to never backfeed, use all PV for loads and charging battery.
If insufficient, it passes through grid power.

Meanwhile, your existing GT PV only backfeeds the grid. That power gets banked for night time or winter.

Other brand inverters could work too. The best will be with feed-through of 200A or whatever your service presently is, and grid-interactive so inverter output blends with grid.

I expect my favorite brand Sunny Boy Smart Energy to do that eventually, when (presently not announced) support of external 200A transfer switch appears. But it will require an expensive 400V battery, vs. SolArk with many 48V choices.

Thank you for this information. I did my research on this and it will be too difficult for me to install. Am I able to hire DYI techs or companies that is bale to do this stuff?

You can hire a company to do the entire thing turnkey, if you find a company that works with your preferred inverter.
If you buy equipment, likely difficult to get a company to install.
You can buy worker's compensation insurance, get a permit, and try to hire employees with experience to moonlight for you.
You can also hire subcontractors.
But either way, difficult to find the competencies.

 

[goldserve]

if you get some cheap panels, you can overpanel your current system so you export the max amount for most of the day. If you buy a hybrid inverter that can limit export but support inverting more power, you can use up as much energy for the home first but never export more than the amount you are allowed to. This is what I’m doing.

 

[AntronX]

You can DIY install batteryless hybrid inverter to power your EV and portable AC with grid as a backup. There are plenty examples on youtube how to do it. That would be the cheapest option.

 

[zanydroid]

You can DIY install batteryless hybrid inverter to power your EV and portable AC with grid as a backup. There are plenty examples on youtube how to do it. That would be the cheapest option.

That’s not allowed by Rule21 and the interconnection agreement but sure it can be code compliant for much cheaper and it can work with standard EVSE

OP charges car after 5pm so it won’t help except on the weekend… really hurts the ROI and may make batteries closer in cost

 

[Hedges]

Goal should be to charge EV at night with power credits from existing GT PV system.
Install a new zero-backfeed system to power house during the day, so all of existing system can backfeed.
May not even need batteries. But get a hybrid with option to add.

 

[noy897]

DIY = do it yourself
Not sure how you'd hire someone to do it yourself

Yep it contradicts itself but I do it all the time. Wanted to do a "DYI" accent wall but I hired some craigslist dude to do it lol. But I will not do this for electrical work

 

[noy897]

Not just random stuff, 100% of the house.

Consider your PG&E service presently goes to a 200A main breaker panel which has all your branch circuit breakers.

Install a new 200A main breaker only or fused disconnect.
Fan out from there to a fused disconnect for your existing GT PV,
A 200A SolArk with battery and added PV,
An interlocked "generator" input of your existing main panel, for use if SolArk fails.

Output of SolArk goes to your exist main panel.

SolArk can programmed to never backfeed, use all PV for loads and charging battery.
If insufficient, it passes through grid power.

Meanwhile, your existing GT PV only backfeeds the grid. That power gets banked for night time or winter.

Other brand inverters could work too. The best will be with feed-through of 200A or whatever your service presently is, and grid-interactive so inverter output blends with grid.

I expect my favorite brand Sunny Boy Smart Energy to do that eventually, when (presently not announced) support of external 200A transfer switch appears. But it will require an expensive 400V battery, vs. SolArk with many 48V choices.



You can hire a company to do the entire thing turnkey, if you find a company that works with your preferred inverter.
If you buy equipment, likely difficult to get a company to install.
You can buy worker's compensation insurance, get a permit, and try to hire employees with experience to moonlight for you.
You can also hire subcontractors.
But either way, difficult to find the competencies.

To be completely honest, this goes over my head and I would not attempt to do this myself. I would rather hire someone that can do this but I understand that it would be difficult to find an installer right now. But I will try to find someone to do this.

EDIT: wow, just did my research on all of the products mentioned above and they are incredible. It looks pretty simple to hook up and the value is way better compared to commercial big company systems. I still need to find someone to do this though for me.

 

[noy897]

if you get some cheap panels, you can overpanel your current system so you export the max amount for most of the day. If you buy a hybrid inverter that can limit export but support inverting more power, you can use up as much energy for the home first but never export more than the amount you are allowed to. This is what I’m doing.

Yes i thought about this but PGE may catch that there is extra production going on and kick me of nem 2.0? (I'm just assuming this)

 

[noy897]

Tesla reached out to me with an offer for two Powerwalls at a price of $12,000. They assured me that installing these Powerwalls wouldn't impact my participation in NEM 2.0, and they emphasized the potential cost savings. They mentioned that the Powerwalls would charge during the day, allowing me to use that stored energy to charge my Tesla at night.

However, I'm a bit puzzled about how this would work without increasing my solar panel capacity. If I'm using 20+ kW of solar energy to charge the Powerwalls during daylight hours, it seems like I would be sacrificing the opportunity to export that same amount of energy to the grid under NEM 2.0. I don't see how I am saving here except maybe during peak and non peak hours

 

[Hedges]

Why spend $12,000 for a battery (less than 100% efficient) to store power during peak times of the day, and use to charge your car at night when you could have bought power at off-peak rates with credits earned on-peak?

Net metering is 100% efficient (less any fixed fees; is that $11/month? Compare to $12k battery, call that $100/month amortized over a decade.) Actually > 100%, if you backfeed any power during on-peak, and draw off-peak.

That is why I suggested added PV on a zero-export hybrid (batteries optional) inverter. If you don't make enough kWh today, you could make more to fix it.

Do you have room for more rooftop PV? What kind of shingles/roofing?
Do you have room for ground mounts?

"and run a portable AC unit for more than 10 hours a day. As a result, the estimated annual true-up cost has shot up to a range of $2,500 to $3,000, which is roughly $200 to $250 per month."

Do you think the portable A/C is most of that consumption?
Does this portable A/C have 2 hoses, or not?
You need to determine what it's consumption is. And efficient window unit or mini-split might be an improvement.
You must be somewhere hot. Where is the solar gain coming from? An uninsulated roof? Windows?

 

[Hedges]

How the Powerwall can help is to store PV generated power in the morning to run the A/C during times of peak rates.
What are the prices of your rate schedule?

 

[zanydroid]

Why spend $12,000 for a battery (less than 100% efficient) to store power during peak times of the day, and use to charge your car at night when you could have bought power at off-peak rates with credits earned on-peak?

PowerWall can be configured to force export at 4pm. I have neighbors that due that. So by dollar value magic the powerwall is maybe 175% efficient, if you switch to EV2 TOU plan. But you can only export the amount not self consumed during the day

(Not factoring in the level it’s cost of storage. The break even is probably over 10 years)

There is no other way to do this without batteries.

 

[AntronX]

That’s not allowed by Rule21 and the interconnection agreement

Rules? Where we're going, we don't need rules.

 

[zanydroid]

For the portable AC buy a kill A watt clone off Amazon for $15 and get some quick info on how much it uses.

 

[Hedges]

Start by looking at its specs.
And whether it has two hoses. If not, it's efficiency is meaningless.

 

[goldserve]

Yes i thought about this but PGE may catch that there is extra production going on and kick me of nem 2.0? (I'm just assuming this)

If they applied some ai analysis, I’m sure they could figure things out but it seems they are looking for any export when you have no net metering agreement at all.