AWG Not Right -- A Public Safety Warning

[JazzRVwSolar]

I purchased wire marked 8AWG from a highly reputable company. After install, I notice voltage losses that were higher than I expected given that I had used 8AWG. Out of desperation, I checked the gauge of the wire which is labeled 8AWG. It is more like 11AWG. I am still battling the wire manufacture.

Now 11AWG vs 10AWG is close. When wire is sealed around insulator, it can compress the wire a bit. So, if this was reading 11AWG and I had bought 10AWG, I would have been okay. But I spent significantly extra for 8AWG and it is measuring 11AWG. I only found out after install. If you buy wire, please check AWG carefully.

In solar applications where you are producing your own power and every watt is precious (not to mention expensive purchase), you cannot afford to loose wattage due to thin wire. Think like this: take same brand panel that is 17% efficient and compare that with 21% efficient panel. That difference is the cost of an extra 3 - 4%. By buying inexpensive gauge wire, you are loosing the money you spent for the higher grade panel. If you have unlimited real estate for solar (unlike RV), you are okay. But with RV solar, not good idea.

P.S.
Here is how to measure wire gauge. Cut the shielding at some point with a cutter. Slowly pull it back to expose the copper wire. But do not remove that shielding all the way. You don't want the wire to unwind and become bushy. Then it's too hard to tell what the actual gauge is. To see if you doing it right, buy multi-strand from local hardware store and check using above procedure. You will find it works out.

 

[Solarcabin Channel]

Amazon carries a wire gauge tool which is basically gauge sized slots you fit over the wire.

Keep in mind that copper gauge wire will be smaller than aluminum.

Aluminium has a significantly higher specific electrical resistivity than copper. This difference is highly relevant for power cables. Aluminium conductor requires 56% larger cross-sectional area than copper for same current carrying capability.

Harder to find copper wires these days.

 

[hwy17]

I hope you no longer consider them highly reputable.

It's very hard to shop for fine stranded DC wire imo. The only highly reputable brand I know of is Southwire Excelene but it seems they only sell it in very large spools, and I only find Nassau as a reputable reseller of smaller cuts, in Orange only. The rest of the market seems to plagued by generics and second tier brands that people only trust by personal experience.

 

[Partimewages]

Which company do I want to avoid?

 

[shopman]

I use wire from Windy Nation and have no complaints. Very good quality wire

 

[Bluedog225]

I find USA manufactured wire to be pretty good. I use Boatwireusa.com.

Thanks for the heads up. is there a reason not to share the manufacturer‘s name?

 

[JazzRVwSolar]

Which company do I want to avoid?

I am EXTREMELY reluctant to give out name of a specific company. All I can tell you is they are pretty big in solar. They have physical presence in mid-west, they have online, and they also sell on amazon. I specifically bought copper wire from them (not lesser price) from others thinking they could be trusted. So far, they keep making excuses. Mostly they are claiming this is not their wire. But I have receipts. I have the wire which is clearly marked 8AWG. It is the manufacture they claim they use. They also don't believe how I measured.

But not only is the problem the measurement is 2 - 3 AWGs off the resistance of the wire is also worst and consistent with what one would expect from 10/11AWG wire.

I said I could tolerate difference between 11AWG and 8AWG. But 8AWG to measured of 11AWG is not acceptable. And the proof is in the pudding as they say. There is a clear voltage drop (power drop) as the amps increase. This means the resistive load of the wire is worst than the rated 8AWG per foot. It does appear pure copper, however.

 

[Partimewages]

None of that helps. I have had bad cable right from the manufacturer. We pull 1000s of feet of cable every week. Manufacturer problems exist and good manufacturer will stand behind it. But we buy enough to be respected.

 

[Murphyslaww]

Hope it's not windynation, as I have about $180 of their 8awg for a 60-100 foot run.

 

[Bluedog225]

Why be reluctant? Even all caps reluctant??

Doesn’t help anyone.

And welcome to the forum.

 

[Supervstech]

I am EXTREMELY reluctant to give out name of a specific company. All I can tell you is they are pretty big in solar. They have physical presence in mid-west, they have online, and they also sell on amazon. I specifically bought copper wire from them (not lesser price) from others thinking they could be trusted. So far, they keep making excuses. Mostly they are claiming this is not their wire. But I have receipts. I have the wire which is clearly marked 8AWG. It is the manufacture they claim they use. They also don't believe how I measured.

But not only is the problem the measurement is 2 - 3 AWGs off the resistance of the wire is also worst and consistent with what one would expect from 10/11AWG wire.

I said I could tolerate difference between 11AWG and 8AWG. But 8AWG to measured of 11AWG is not acceptable. And the proof is in the pudding as they say. There is a clear voltage drop (power drop) as the amps increase. This means the resistive load of the wire is worst than the rated 8AWG per foot. It does appear pure copper, however.

Thank you for the warning, but ANY seller following these practices needs to be exposed in this forum.
Companies do not deserve anonymity shielding their crooked tactics. You aren’t making fake claims, you are posting a real scam they are stealing from you.

Please post the company info.

 

[Supervstech]

F.Y.I. if you measure a few feet of wire with an ohm meter, you can confirm the awg with a resistance chart…

Table of equivalent AWG Wire and Resistance per foot

AWG Chart of Approximate equivalent Cross-Sections of Wire, American Wire Gauge by Resistance per 1000 feet

www.interfacebus.com

 

[DougfromdaUP]

if you measure a few feet of wire with an ohm meter

The resistance of a ten foot chunk should be about .008 ohm. Most meters commonly available aren't even readable to that, let alone accurate.
I'd recommend using a variable supply to pass 10 amps through the cable, and read the voltage drop, which should be about 80 millivolts, easily within the range of common multimeters.

 

[DougfromdaUP]

I'd sure like to know the name of the manufacturer selling no. 11 marked as no.8.

 

[Supervstech]

I am EXTREMELY reluctant to give out name of a specific company. All I can tell you is they are pretty big in solar. They have physical presence in mid-west, they have online, and they also sell on amazon. I specifically bought copper wire from them (not lesser price) from others thinking they could be trusted. So far, they keep making excuses. Mostly they are claiming this is not their wire. But I have receipts. I have the wire which is clearly marked 8AWG. It is the manufacture they claim they use. They also don't believe how I measured.

But not only is the problem the measurement is 2 - 3 AWGs off the resistance of the wire is also worst and consistent with what one would expect from 10/11AWG wire.

I said I could tolerate difference between 11AWG and 8AWG. But 8AWG to measured of 11AWG is not acceptable. And the proof is in the pudding as they say. There is a clear voltage drop (power drop) as the amps increase. This means the resistive load of the wire is worst than the rated 8AWG per foot. It does appear pure copper, however.

Please post pics of the wire, and how you measured it.
And, yes...
Post the company that is stealing from customers.

 

[Will Prowse]

We need to be pragmatic about asserting a claim against a manufacturer.

Please provide evidence of this claim, proof of purchase if possible and obviously the name of the business.

Posts without evidence will be locked. They do not help anyone.

 

[Bluedog225]

I’m going to have a good chuckle if it’s SS. ?

Edit-of course I’m referring to sadco solar.

 

[pollenface]

I think the jokes on you, there's a fairly sizeable difference between AWG8 and AWG11

 

[42OhmsPA]

@JazzRVwSolar where did you buy it from?

We need to be pragmatic about asserting a claim against a manufacturer.

Please provide evidence of this claim, proof of purchase if possible and obviously the name of the business.

Posts without evidence will be locked. They do not help anyone.

 

[DougfromdaUP]

P.S.
Here is how to measure wire gauge. Cut the shielding at some point with a cutter. Slowly pull it back to expose the copper wire. But do not remove that shielding all the way. You don't want the wire to unwind and become bushy. Then it's too hard to tell what the actual gauge is. To see if you doing it right, buy multi-strand from local hardware store and check using above procedure. You will find it works out.

Actually it's a little harder than that. Here's a listing of one manufacturer's 8AWG wire selection specs:



Look at the great variation in the diameter of the different wires- from .129 for solid to .178 for 1715/40


Here's the url for the whole chart:

https://www.calmont.com/wp-content/uploads/calmont-eng-wire-gauge.pdf