diy solar

diy solar

Midnite Solar Announced their new 10kw AIO at Intersolar Today

Thanks Robin. Looking forward to using The One.

I am curious what the status of the various certifications are, especially 1741SAx for grid selling. Does it have the certs now so we can include them for a building permit application or the like? And is the installation manual available (or an early version)? Would be handy to see that for planning (and I admit, curiosity).

Thanks
 
Last edited:
6. Charging from a generator is incredible. We have a lot of experience good and bad charging from generators over the last 35 years. This unit is incredible. One day we were testing with a generator that has wheels and handles ( we hate those kind). We forgot to push the choke back in. The generator was laughing and sputtering, but the ONE never disconnected. Boy we were not expecting that.
Does this include cheap/generic generators with poor waveforms/dirty power? This could be very big for some.
10. One thing that we are paying attention to are menus. Many AIO inverters are really hard to figure out. We are fixing that. Another is how these are installed. We are saving 1.5 hours and $100 in parts on installing it to a gutter vs. other AIO inverter. Simple stuff, but very important to installers. They too have to be competitive and just those savings can make or break a sale.
Please dear god put as much effort as you can into this. There are WAY too many good solar Manufacturers that are putting out really nice hardware with absolute dog shit software. This is the MOST frustrating thing I can possibly think of for solar equipment in the last few years.
12. Output power: the ONE is 10,000 continuous at night and 11.4kw with PV in.
The big difference is that the ONE has really good surge power. That is more important than an extra 2000 watts continuous. Nobody tries to run their inverter continuously at full power. Batteries get sucked dry too quick.
I do think the continuous output is important. I agree, not as important as surge, but there are PLENTY of times I'm running my inverters a high load for long duration. Charging the Tesla is a perfect example. I typically charge it at 32a, which is ~7800w, and it will run for 5-7+ hours some days. But I'm installing a 50a charger here pretty soon, which is a 12,000w charger. This alone will bring the inverter to its knees, not to mention the other loads in the home. I foresee paralleling inverters is in my future.
14. Selling to the utility when it isn’t supposed to: yes, we have had the utilities show up at two of our test facilities. That is one reason it isn’t released yet.
How does it prevent accidental sell back? I know there are a few models by other manufactures out there that have a hard time not selling back when a large load turns off etc. Are you planning on doing a constant grid feed-in (or whatever you want to call it), where you purchase 50-100w constantly form the grid to prevent small sell back?
16. Don’t be fooled by a 200 amp pass through. It normally doesn’t make sense and it is not less complicated or less expensive for the install. We too will eventually do this, but it does not make for a better or cheaper install!
I dont understand how a 200a pass through does not make for a better/cheaper install? Not running a critical loads panel and a whole lot less wiring sounds better/cheaper to me. How will you "eventually do this"? Are you going to have the hardware already in the inverter, and enable it with software updates later?

I really appreciate you coming on here and talking with us all about this, and giving us the info/insight to a new product, and answer questions!
 
Hello again. The ONE has UL1741SB certification. We are waiting for SGS to catch up with the official report. Should happen in March. We are working on the manual now. It will be a work in progress for a while, but should be available on our website in a couple of weeks.
We are very pleased that the ONE works fine with every generator tested to date. That is really good news. Generators are usually a big problem. At OutBack we had a customer that was having issues. I asked him if his generator had wheels and a handle? He said it did. This is indicative of a portable generator and those historically cause issues charging. I explained thus to the customer. He called us back a couple of days later and said he was still having charger issues even though he had removed the wheels and handle! I think we have made great improvements in charging with the ONE.
We are spending a lot of time on the software aspect of the inverter. I too am appalled at what some of the good and expensive inverters give you for a user interface. We are trying hard to make this intuitive.
The One will sell at 11.4kw all day long with PV. If your house loads exceed this like when charging your car(I have a model S) then the utility will make up the rest. Buying 2 inverters normally won’t make sense economically.
We are still messing with the “do not sell” aspect. It is working quite well, but we think it still has room for a bit of improvement. A hysteresis of 50 watts or so may be required? When doing self consumption you are trying to power all the loads in the house without actually selling to the grid. When a large load is instantly turned off, it is difficult not to overshoot for a moment. That is what we are fiddling with now. No biggie regardless.
For a 200 amp service you will need a 200 amp service rated breaker/switch on the utility side of the inverter. Those aren’t cheap. Then there is the frustration you will see when the utility goes down and your nice new shiny inverter goes overcurrent and shuts down. The lights are now out and you do not know why? Well it could be that you had the air conditioner and stove on or a furnace or hot water heater or electric dryer or hot tub? These are huge loads and are not normally needed during an outage. Electric heat is a problem for sure! After this happens you are not happy and now feel that you have to invest in a programmable load center that automatically turns off your big loads during a utility outage. Talk about expensive. The ONE has three programmable input/output circuits built in. A 30, 50 and 60 amp 120/240 VAC E-panel built in as well as four additional 15 and 20 amp 120VAC breakers, plus a 100 amp output breaker. These all make it very flexible. You just pull some circuits out of the main distribution panel and move them over to the ONE. Of course you can still have a sub panel too if desired.
Thanks,
Robin Gudgel
MidNite Solar
 
Hi Tim, I haven’t included my title on business cards for over 30 years. Frankly if it said Engineer, it would make me feel better. I will see if I can figure out how to add my title?
Thanks,
Robin Gudgel

Just forum policy that people must declare affiliation.

A few of us here recognize your name now (and that you're a key member of one of the very best companies in the business). But for everyone including newcomers, supposed to say you are with Midnight.

I'm not sure if title is required, but certainly that you represent Midnight.

(Titles can be fun. One guy I met had on his business card "Count of Inverters", i.e., he counted the number of inverters between clocked gates to determine how fast the circuit could run, performance analysis.) I don't have a card now, but if I did it would say, "Chief Lab Rat).
 
I screwed up when I said we won’t be competitive to a tier 1 inverter. I meant to say tier 2 and 3.
As for conformal coating, we have been doing this on all the Trace. Xantrex, OutBack and Magnum inverters since 1990. It helps to lengthen their lifespan. In an unheated space, you will draw in small amounts of moisture when it cools off. That eventually allows green stuff to grow (corrosion). Two things kill inverters. Too much heat caused be many things including poor design and corrosion. One or the other is going to get you at some point. The ONE has a 10 year warranty.
I've got a Trace 12 volt I set up for Y2K.....still running as my back up to my back ups....just want to say thankyou for building such a superior product.
 
I've got a Trace 12 volt I set up for Y2K.....still running as my back up to my back ups....just want to say thankyou for building such a superior product.
My 24 year old Trace SW4048's are still humming along, literally humming since their cooling fans are cycling, across the shop from me as I type this.
 
Last edited:
The One will sell at 11.4kw all day long with PV. If your house loads exceed this like when charging your car(I have a model S) then the utility will make up the rest.

Does The One have a setting to limit max sell back power to some value? That can come in handy here where the local PoCo has several tiers of grid-tied.
 
Hi Tim, I haven’t included my title on business cards for over 30 years. Frankly if it said Engineer, it would make me feel better. I will see if I can figure out how to add my title?
Thanks,
Robin Gudgel
It doesn't have to be your title.
your company affiliation is all that is required by the rules.
 
Here is the spec sheet for the new AIO
Question on this:

How does the AIO implement Insulation Resistance Detection and Leakage Current Protection? Is this on the battery terminals only? On the DC side only?
 
Well, I figured out how to add my picture. I still don’t understand how to add that I am from MidNite Solar? I will keep trying.
The inverter does a resistance check through the PV terminals before deciding to sell.
I believe you can limit sell back current, but I will let Ryan or Logan or one of the testers comment.
Heck, I am now living in a condo in Miami where I can’t even put a solar panel out on the balcony, so I have not been doing much of the testing. Fortunately we have three employees that live in Florida that are doing testing and software stuff. I do go to their places to watch them do their thing. They are really good at evaluations as they have been doing this with me for over 20 years each.
Thanks,
Robin Gudgel
MidNite Solar
 
We are still messing with the “do not sell” aspect. It is working quite well, but we think it still has room for a bit of improvement. A hysteresis of 50 watts or so may be required? When doing self consumption you are trying to power all the loads in the house without actually selling to the grid. When a large load is instantly turned off, it is difficult not to overshoot for a moment. That is what we are fiddling with now. No biggie regardless.
Very pleased to hear your working on the zero export/self consumption. The inverters I currently use always allow the grid to supply 7-25w. This (and slightly more) is acceptable imo. Short duration backfeed/overshooting afaik is unavoidable when using the inverter like a grid tie zero export inverter.
 
The ONE has three programmable input/output circuits built in. A 30, 50 and 60 amp 120/240 VAC E-panel built in as well as four additional 15 and 20 amp 120VAC breakers, plus a 100 amp output breaker. These all make it very flexible. You just pull some circuits out of the main distribution panel and move them over to the ONE. Of course you can still have a sub panel too if desired.
Awesome! Can the loads on these circuits be powered by the inverter when the inverter is operating in grid tie zero export/self consumption mode? Or are those circuits only powered offgrid
 
Well, I figured out how to add my picture. I still don’t understand how to add that I am from MidNite Solar? I will keep trying.
.....~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~.....
Thanks,
Robin Gudgel
MidNite Solar

What I did was to replace my picture with the MidNite logo.

I notice your signature says MidNite Solar. I'm not sure if that might be enough ?

Your NAME can contain MidNite in it somehow, too. Easy.

boB
 
Well, I figured out how to add my picture. I still don’t understand how to add that I am from MidNite Solar? I will keep trying.
...
Go to your Account details and look for custom title. Fill it out. "Chief Toady" is under mine now as an example.
 
I am now living in a condo in Miami where I can’t even put a solar panel out on the balcony, so I have not been doing much of the testing. Fortunately we have three employees that live in Florida that are doing testing and software stuff. I do go to their places to watch them do their thing. They are really good at evaluations as they have been doing this with me for over 20 years each.
Thanks,
Robin Gudgel
MidNite Solar

Wow, welcome to Florida!

Good Beta testers are critical to getting a quality product!! and most of the junk that is dumped here is due to "other" cultures/country don't have this view :rolleyes:
 
The ONE has UL1741SB certification. We are waiting for SGS to catch up with the official report.
Oh wow, I am glad I decided to scroll 5 pages on this thread again, because I was privately not expecting it!

I assume it will be submitted to CEC at some point?

Once the report is posted I would look at it to look for what PCS (if any) were validated, since PG&E cares about that.
 
Looking forward to seeing the manual up on the website. Based on the post here and the text on the product page, sounds like it will come with 100A transfer? That is perfect for how the wiring works at my place.

Will it (eventually) support external transfer relay/MID to scale up to higher levels?
The ONE has three programmable input/output circuits built in. A 30, 50 and 60 amp 120/240 VAC E-panel built in as well as four additional 15 and 20 amp 120VAC breakers, plus a 100 amp output breaker.
 
How does it prevent accidental sell back? I know there are a few models by other manufactures out there that have a hard time not selling back when a large load turns off etc. Are you planning on doing a constant grid feed-in (or whatever you want to call it), where you purchase 50-100w constantly form the grid to prevent small sell back?

I dont understand how a 200a pass through does not make for a better/cheaper install? Not running a critical loads panel and a whole lot less wiring sounds better/cheaper to me. How will you "eventually do this"? Are you going to have the hardware already in the inverter, and enable it with software updates later?
The amount of power the One pulls from the grid at any time before doing self consumption is adjustable by you, that said it doesn't need a ton of head room, The Solark 15K still sells to the grid for less than 1 second on occasion when a load shuts off, You are looking for the minutes of sell that is what gets one noticed.

200A passthrough sounds sexy for sure but as a professional installer I promise you my customers would not do proper load management so a house with say 2 or 3 large AC units and say a tesla charger. What happens when the grid fails? Those large loads drain the battery or worse yet over load the inverter. My theory is one should not set the system up to fail that way they need to do a load managment box or a sub panel. With the One you get 3 high ampacity smart load circuits that allow you to shed things like car chargers or ac units when the grid fails if you want.
 
Back
Top