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Water heater load/surge causes projector to turn off

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Gurusi

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Hey, so I currently have two LV6548’s in split phase powering my home with two 16s 280ah packs in parallel (off grid).

Within the home I have two large loads which I switch remotely as needed. They are a hot tub and electric water heater. Both consume around 5000ws. I tested the inrush surge on both and were within range for the inverter specs.

All has been good with the above. Yesterday I decided to watch a movie on the projector and it kept turning off incrementally. I intially thought it was the bulb needing replacement or some kind of fault. Today mid movie, I turned off the Hottub heater (remotely) and it turned the projector off. (Repeated the same process to confirm).

So my guess is that the large reduction in power from the hot tub turning off is causing the projector to shut down.

The projector is wall mounted and everything is hidden/in wall so I can’t see where I could put any line-conditioning/ups equipment.

I have a Panamax Max-In-Wall Power-Pro-PFP, (2) 15A OUTLETS, Surge Protection, EMI/RF Filtration connected and plan to bypass it to see if it may be tripping based on the reduction in voltage.

I looked up softstarters but it appears the interaction isn’t on the ramp up of power.

Any suggestions on solutions would be appreciated!
 
Likely you would need someone like RichinFL to explain it. I just know that some strange oddities happen with certain electronics and running from inverters. In my case my security camera monitor briefly cycles off and than back on when one of my deep freezers cycles off (but not the other one). It does not affect my computer monitor nor any other electronic devices I have.
 
Mattb4 said:
Likely you would need someone like RichinFL to explain it. I just know that some strange oddities happen with certain electronics and running from inverters. In my case my security camera monitor briefly cycles off and than back on when one of my deep freezers cycles off (but not the other one). It does not affect my computer monitor nor any other electronic devices I have.
Click to expand...
It is strange. Did you find a solution or just let the cameras power cycle?
 
It is the monitor that cycles. The cameras and the DVV seem unaffected. I just ignore it now.
 
"Surge" is a thing for motors. And incandescent lamps. But not heating elements.
Hot tub motor could be a source of surge. Soft starter might help if it is the problem.
With pump and heater running, cause the heater to turn on and off (you might need to insert a switch to do that) and see if heater is the cause.

Consider wiring a priority switch so only only hot tub heater or water heater is on at a given time.
Consider wiring one to one phase of 120V, the other to other phase. Lower current draw.
 
Last edited:
Hedges said:
"Surge" is a think for motors. And incandescent lamps. But not heating elements.
Hot tub motor could be a source of surge. Soft starter might help if it is the problem.
With pump and heater running, cause the heater to turn on and off (you might need to insert a switch to do that) and see if heater is the cause.

Consider wiring a priority switch so only only hot tub heater or water heater is on at a given time.
Consider wiring one to one phase of 120V, the other to other phase. Lower current draw.
Click to expand...
Good to know, I was unsure if a soft start would be of benefit for the heater/hottub element.

Currently I have smart switches on 240v contactors on both the water heater and hot tub heater so only one can be on a time.

The strange thing is that turning on either large draw appliances doesn’t affect the projector, only when the appliance is turned off.
 
Load dump causing a voltage spike? Maybe replace the heater elements with lower power ones? It’ll take longer to heat up, but that might be OK if it isn’t on all the time anyway.

Alternately a surge suppressor on the hot water heater?
 
Surge not sag of voltage.
Maybe it triggers power-on reset.

Do you have access to DC in the projector power (e.g. external power supply) or is it fed directly with AC?
Probably 120V. Does it also accept 240V input? May behave differently.

Try 120V to heater. 1/4 the power, 1/2 the current. Might have less disturbance.
Or put heaters on one 120V phase, projector on other.
 
wpns said:
Load dump causing a voltage spike? Maybe replace the heater elements with lower power ones? It’ll take longer to heat up, but that might be OK if it isn’t on all the time anyway.

Alternately a surge suppressor on the hot water heater?
Click to expand...
I think you may be correct with the load dump either spiking on return or maybe the sag causing shut down.

I am apprehensive about lowering the element due to winter solar here and the need to heat fast when sunny. But May be a last resort solution.

A surge suppressor is something I will research now as an option
 
Hedges said:
Surge not sag of voltage.
Maybe it triggers power-on reset.

Do you have access to DC in the projector power (e.g. external power supply) or is it fed directly with AC?
Probably 120V. Does it also accept 240V input? May behave differently.

Try 120V to heater. 1/4 the power, 1/2 the current. Might have less disturbance.
Or put heaters on one 120V phase, projector on other.
Click to expand...
Projector is direct from 120v. Unfortunately it’s the furthest point from the inverters with no direct DC line.
 
Surge suppressors are only for spikes to hundreds or thousands of volts.

If you had a scope, you could capture waveform triggered when it goes above nominal.

Equipment is supposed to ride through some powerline disturbances. Other disturbances, manual intervention to reset is OK.

Reducing load step on inverter is one approach. Line conditioning for the projector is another. Modifying internal power supply of of projector is another.

Separate inverter feeding that circuit might be the simplest.
A Line Tamer ferro-resonant transformer would probably also work. They have additional loss, switch off when not in use.

www.ebay.com

Line Tamer/ Sentrex PCLC-850 AC 120V Power Line Conditioner Regulator | eBay

850VA/600W Line Conditioner. All seals must be intact for warranty to apply.
www.ebay.com
 
Maybe put a small resistive load (100 watt lightbulb) on the same circuit as the Projector. Either before, or close to, the Projector. It may be able to absorb some of the surge (and possible subsequent sag) that happens when the hot tub turns off, and the inverter adjusts to the new production level.
 
Hedges said:
Surge suppressors are only for spikes to hundreds or thousands of volts.

If you had a scope, you could capture waveform triggered when it goes above nominal.

Equipment is supposed to ride through some powerline disturbances. Other disturbances, manual intervention to reset is OK.

Reducing load step on inverter is one approach. Line conditioning for the projector is another. Modifying internal power supply of of projector is another.

Separate inverter feeding that circuit might be the simplest.
A Line Tamer ferro-resonant transformer would probably also work. They have additional loss, switch off when not in use.

www.ebay.com

Line Tamer/ Sentrex PCLC-850 AC 120V Power Line Conditioner Regulator | eBay

850VA/600W Line Conditioner. All seals must be intact for warranty to apply.
www.ebay.com
Click to expand...
Yep, I think you have methods of resolve listed. I find the line conditioner the simplest and most protective for the projector. But it will be the most work in terms of drywalling and decorating to get it in there (which I hate!). I was looking at the Eaton 5P 5P750 750VA/600W 120V Tower Line Interactive UPS.


DIYrich said:
Maybe put a small resistive load (100 watt lightbulb) on the same circuit as the Projector. Either before, or close to, the Projector. It may be able to absorb some of the surge (and possible subsequent sag) that happens when the hot tub turns off, and the inverter adjusts to the new production level.
Click to expand...
that is something simple I can try today, something I hadn’t considered.

Thanks all, I will do some more testing today.
 
See what is on the branch circuit and consider putting Line Tamer by breaker panel.
Change breaker size to protect it.
 
The resistive load made no difference; however I did confirm that the Panamax MIW-POWER-PRO-PFP is the culprit.

I got on a ladder and checked the display on the outlet protector. When remotely turning off the hot tub the outlet protector briefly lit up with “line fault” and then the projector shut itself down.

I plugged the projector into a standard outlet and it was fine/didn’t shut off when cycling the Hottub.

The question is, is the outlet protector doing its job or is it a false flag leading the projector to turn itself off…
 
wpns said:
Who installed the outlet surge protector? I'd check the wiring, and maybe swap it for a regular outlet...
Click to expand...
I installed it, all as should be neutral grounded etc. it’s running on a 15amp breaker with two other outlets that have nothing plugged into regularly.

trading it out definitely solves the issue! As long as the “line fault” or the voltage drop doesn’t slowly wrecking the projector…
 
Sounds like it was doing its job - saw over-voltage and opened a relay.

Max-In-Wall Power-Pro-PFP | Compact Power Manager | Panamax

Max-In-Wall Power-Pro-PFP is a compact power that provides safe power distribution from using your LCD's, ceiling projectors and plasma screens. Get it today!
panamax.com panamax.com

No harm in putting in a surge arrestor. Devices are supposed to withstand some kV of spike, but still isn't good for them.

I don't know if you are seeing a brief inductive spike from inverter, or if inverter is out of regulation for a few cycles. Surge arrestor might handle the spike.

Midnight sells some nicely packaged ones. I'd just get MOV with integrated thermal fuse, install inside a plug or hanging off the end (heatshrinked for insulation), and plug into the adjacent outlet.
 
Could be the Panamaz has stopped too many spikes, and has become too sensitive (kind of like a breaker). It senses the line fault too easily, disconnects load to protect it.
 
Hedges said:
Sounds like it was doing its job - saw over-voltage and opened a relay.

Max-In-Wall Power-Pro-PFP | Compact Power Manager | Panamax

Max-In-Wall Power-Pro-PFP is a compact power that provides safe power distribution from using your LCD's, ceiling projectors and plasma screens. Get it today!
panamax.com panamax.com

No harm in putting in a surge arrestor. Devices are supposed to withstand some kV of spike, but still isn't good for them.

I don't know if you are seeing a brief inductive spike from inverter, or if inverter is out of regulation for a few cycles. Surge arrestor might handle the spike.

Midnight sells some nicely packaged ones. I'd just get MOV with integrated thermal fuse, install inside a plug or hanging off the end (heatshrinked for insulation), and plug into the adjacent outlet.
Click to expand...

I’m guessing I would need an oscilloscope to know? Attached is a read out from my emporia app at times of cut off.

I would rather add something to resolve the issue than take out a protective measure.

Are you talking about these?
 

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