Heat Pump water Heaters

[Madcodger]

Has anyone tried the AOSmith heat pump water heaters? In looking at their specs, they seem to need about half as much space (cubic feet) as the Rheem units (450 CF vs about 800). That could be a big difference in many mechanical rooms, but you have to wonder if they sized things correctly. Performance specs were otherwise similar for comparably sized units.

 

[Zwy]

Looks like Rheem manufactures Richmond?

Same company

If the heat pump unit / electronics were to fail would the heating elements still function?

I kind of regret not ordering but they go on sale at least once a month as a HD deal of the day, along with mini splits.

Tax credits and dump load is why I bought one. I think these are mature enough .

 

[Zwy]

Has anyone tried the AOSmith heat pump water heaters?

Not heat pump but my previous experience with a few AO Smith water heaters turned me off for good.

In looking at their specs, they seem to need about half as much space (cubic feet) as the Rheem units (450 CF vs about 800). That could be a big difference in many mechanical rooms, but you have to wonder if they sized things correctly. Performance specs were otherwise similar for comparably sized units.

A few ways a water heater can be made smaller: smaller tank size, less insulation, smaller heat pump, this includes not only the the compressor but heat exchanger which would require longer run time.

I can say the unit I have is bigger diameter than my propane. Both 50 gallon.

 

[ginmtb]

Got it installed - went pretty well, except the hot water threaded connection leaked, so had to redo that. Took longer than I thought it would but not like I install water heaters for a living lol. One less natural gas appliance, excited to pay PG&E even less money!

 

[goldserve]

The thermal pressure relief valve should be cpvc? Anyways, I installed the aosmith vortex hpts-50 and it’s great. I like the water connections on top more but the control app is a joke. I thought rheem was a joke and this is worse.

 

[Plum Crazy Rob]

Not heat pump but my previous experience with a few AO Smith water heaters turned me off for good.

It's been extended to HPWH. Friend of mine acquired one new at 1/5 price so he has nothing to lose, but I investigated reviews and failure rate was abnormally high. (AO Smith 900)

 

[ginmtb]

The thermal pressure relief valve should be cpvc? Anyways, I installed the aosmith vortex hpts-50 and it’s great. I like the water connections on top more but the control app is a joke. I thought rheem was a joke and this is worse.

Actually that’s the condensation line in regular PVC. My thermal pressure relief valve is a copper line (which is hard to see). That’s how I ran my old line, I reused most of the original.

 

[Zwy]

The thermal pressure relief valve should be cpvc? Anyways, I installed the aosmith vortex hpts-50 and it’s great. I like the water connections on top more but the control app is a joke. I thought rheem was a joke and this is worse.

Once I had the Rheem app up and running, it has worked just fine. Accurate, can access the water heater anywhere I have cell phone data connection.

I found out that using a phone that the mobile data connection needs to be turned off when setting up the wi fi. That took me a few tries.

The worst app I have found has been the Alexa app Senville and other mini splits are now using. Just terrible.

 

[gotbeans]

I had that in my cart yesterday ready to check out, then I read reviews sorted recent first... Seems that QC and longevity is lacking.
The shitty part is, it's almost cheaper than a good conventional heater after the rebates.

wew really? heat pump is too new for them I guess, the water heater is so unique. refrigerators only been using it 100 years

 

[kendive]

Ok I totaled up my gas usage in dollars for the last year-it was $1,400,
Thats split between
cooking (gas stove and oven)
forced air heating -Low use as wek have mini splits and a pellet stove but do use it on cold mornings to take the chill off
water heating (as noted have a solar asset system that feeds the 80 gallon solar holding tank feeeding the 40 gallon gas water heater)
cloths drying (gas dyer)
my guess is water heating is at most 50% of this cost=$700 a year.
I think the heatpump/ electric water heater will cost more than that during the 4-5 winter months in power usage at our .43cent per kilowatt that our UTILITY charges off peak ,when solar power is much less avalible for us in winter.
Looks like another gas water heater makes the most sense. This Rheem has 11 years on it now.

Wow .43 a kWh. I would try to not have anything electric if possible.

 

[ginmtb]

Wow .43 a kWh. I would try to not have anything electric if possible.

For me peak is $0.523 and "off-peak" is $0.495 thank goodness for solar!!!

 

[42OhmsPA]

wew really? heat pump is too new for them I guess, the water heater is so unique. refrigerators only been using it 100 years

Yea, they weren't very reassuring, but you can't always trust reviews... Lots of members here have been running them without issue. My brother has one in his house that's been working well for years. He did have something on it fail shortly after he bought the house but said it was warrantied.

 

[Zwy]

Wow .43 a kWh. I would try to not have anything electric if possible.

A tank type water heater is an energy storage device, just like any battery. A HPWH is a smart appliance that can be programmed with an app or home energy management system to run only at times of cheap electricity or excess solar production. I originally wanted to install a dump load for excess electricity available from PV and decided to buy a hybrid HPWH instead of heating element only water heater.

The HPWH is so efficient it really isn't a dump load, I just let it run all the time. Come winter, with the HPWH ahead of the propane water heater, I can use the propane during extended periods of low PV production.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Once I had the Rheem app up and running, it has worked just fine. Accurate, can access the water heater anywhere I have cell phone data connection.

I found out that using a phone that the mobile data connection needs to be turned off when setting up the wi fi. That took me a few tries.

The worst app I have found has been the Alexa app Senville and other mini splits are now using. Just terrible.

I guess I totally do not understand why the heck I'd ever want to access my water heater from anywhere. Only place I want to access it is either the hot water from the shower head, or get to the physical tank to replace it whenever it needs replaced.

I've used/installed standard old Rheem electric and gas water heaters, they always seemed decent, even their cheapest 40 gallon electric for $375 (back in the day...)

 

[markpj23]

Has anyone tried the AOSmith heat pump water heaters?

I 'found' an AO Smith 80g unit in the clearance section of our local blue big box store. Was a previous year model advertised as 3x as efficient - the new ones advertise 4x efficiency. Anyway, orig price $2600 +/-, fir st saw it marked down to $1,600 and offered them $1,000. No dice. Went back 3 weeks later and the same unit was marked down to $672 so I bought it. Bigger than what I need but cheaper than the better grade 50g standard electric ones.
Works like a champ - keeps my garage cooler in this FL humidity. Runs quiet, has good recovery time after the wife fills the big jetted tub. I really see the difference in our electric bill. I run it in hybrid mode just in case but have yet to see it switch on the stinger heating elements. Been running for 7 months now with no issues. I do recall something in the owners manual about hot water circulating systems not being recommended for use with these, however.
Oh yeah - after reading this thread I will never again whine about being charged $0.17 / kw hour......

 

[Quattrohead]

Nice find.
HPWH really are the best type in Florida.

 

[Plum Crazy Rob]

I 'found' an AO Smith 80g

Hopefully better than the 900 model 50g unit. Same as my friend, you have little to lose at THAT PRICE. HOWEVER - here's a review snip and I'll summarize, having read the reviews - half loved it, until the compressor crapped out repeatedly for the other 50% within 6-24 months.

 

[Zwy]

I guess I totally do not understand why the heck I'd ever want to access my water heater from anywhere. Only place I want to access it is either the hot water from the shower head, or get to the physical tank to replace it whenever it needs replaced.

Simple, it was put in as a dump load. I can turn it on or off, change temp or even turn on the electric element for faster heating depending on battery SOC and PV yield in combination with weather forecast.

I have the propane water heater in series after the hybrid heat pump so if I turn it off, I'm guaranteed to still have hot water. This also doubled my hot water storage.

The ability to remotely access the water heater control is not as important for 9 months out of the year. In winter, I won't have to go up and down stairs to turn the water heater on/off or change temp. Plus, I won't have to be physically present.

I could take a trip to TX or AZ for a few weeks and have the hot water heaters off. On my way back, I could use my phone to turn it back on, thus have hot water available when we walk into the house with the dirty laundry and wanting to take a shower.

I've used/installed standard old Rheem electric and gas water heaters, they always seemed decent, even their cheapest 40 gallon electric for $375 (back in the day...)

I installed a Richmond (Rheem) power vent propane probably about 5 years ago. It is currently running longer than the AO Smith. I have an AO Smith electric in a rental, it made it about 15 years before leaking but elements were a few times in that 15 years.

 

[SparkyJJO]

My parents had an AO smith. it worked fine for a very long time until it finally sprung a leak. Never had an element failure.

My old house had a 4-5 year old Whirlpool that leaked. They wouldn't warranty it under the 6 years warranty because I wasn't the original purchaser. Rheem warranties regardless of who owns the house. That makes more sense for something that you can't take with you. I replaced the leaky whirlpool with a Rheem - it heated water better/faster too.

Complete unrelated, but water heater related - some idgit at my old apartment plumbed the water tank backwards so my showers would start cooling off within a few minutes. Really irritating, and no one would fix it

 

[ksmithaz1]

Complete unrelated, but water heater related - some idgit at my old apartment plumbed the water tank backwards so my showers would start cooling off within a few minutes. Really irritating, and no one would fix it

My old man bought a house in FL, they plumbed the hot water line to never-never land under the slab, that was fun to fix, had to re-route via PEX thru the roof.

The ability to remotely access the water heater control is not as important for 9 months out of the year. In winter, I won't have to go up and down stairs to turn the water heater on/off or change temp. Plus, I won't have to be physically present.

I could take a trip to TX or AZ for a few weeks and have the hot water heaters off. On my way back, I could use my phone to turn it back on, thus have hot water available when we walk into the house with the dirty laundry and wanting to take a shower.

Ya know, one of my problems with with a lot if this stuff is I think I failed in my design if I have to futz with it. If I took a long trip and came home, I'm pretty sure I can wait the 20-30 minutes for the HWH to get warm, assuming I bothered to turn it off in the first place, which is doubtful. To each his (or her) own, but if I'm investing 40 grand and engineering my own utilities, I don't want to have to think. In all likelyhood I wouldn't be thinking about hopping on my phone and turning on the hot water just before I get home, I'd forget 9 times out of 10. If I'm gone long enough to go to the trouble of winterizing and opening my house/cabin, I'm probably going to have checklists for when I leave/get home, on which I would prioritize turning things off/on, a possible one-time expense of heating a tank of water with propane/other is not going to bother me if I really want it that bad.

I'm pretty anal, but I'm not the kind of guy who's going to drive 6 hours up to my cabin, walk my checklist, get everything turned on, go unpack and then start doing laundry. Maybe a shower, more likely food and a beverage and some TV. The little woman might disagree !

 

[gotbeans]

My parents had an AO smith. it worked fine for a very long time until it finally sprung a leak. Never had an element failure.

My old house had a 4-5 year old Whirlpool that leaked. They wouldn't warranty it under the 6 years warranty because I wasn't the original purchaser. Rheem warranties regardless of who owns the house. That makes more sense for something that you can't take with you. I replaced the leaky whirlpool with a Rheem - it heated water better/faster too.

Complete unrelated, but water heater related - some idgit at my old apartment plumbed the water tank backwards so my showers would start cooling off within a few minutes. Really irritating, and no one would fix it

wtf how do they even spring a leak lmao
You'd think these companies can make a container to hold water by now

yea ao smith & rheem are basically the same quality wise. but that's nice to know about the rheem warranty

 

[Zwy]

My old man bought a house in FL, they plumbed the hot water line to never-never land under the slab, that was fun to fix, had to re-route via PEX thru the roof.


Ya know, one of my problems with with a lot if this stuff is I think I failed in my design if I have to futz with it. If I took a long trip and came home, I'm pretty sure I can wait the 20-30 minutes for the HWH to get warm, assuming I bothered to turn it off in the first place, which is doubtful. To each his (or her) own, but if I'm investing 40 grand and engineering my own utilities, I don't want to have to think. In all likelyhood I wouldn't be thinking about hopping on my phone and turning on the hot water just before I get home, I'd forget 9 times out of 10. If I'm gone long enough to go to the trouble of winterizing and opening my house/cabin, I'm probably going to have checklists for when I leave/get home, on which I would prioritize turning things off/on, a possible one-time expense of heating a tank of water with propane/other is not going to bother me if I really want it that bad.

I'm pretty anal, but I'm not the kind of guy who's going to drive 6 hours up to my cabin, walk my checklist, get everything turned on, go unpack and then start doing laundry. Maybe a shower, more likely food and a beverage and some TV. The little woman might disagree !

With a heat pump water heater in heat pump mode, it will take longer than 20 to 30 minutes for hot water. You could use the electric element for faster recovery, if you have the power to do so.

Some people don't want smart devices. Some find value in them. I'm not interested in home automation. But I do see some value in the ability to change water heater temp, turn it on/off, turn on devices with smart plugs and run my heat pump mini splits remotely.

Regardless of how much money you spend on self generation, it still is a limited resource and we have no control over nature, regardless of what climate theorists wish to proclaim. Battery reserve is always limited to the storage size. Daylight hours are always limited. PV size is limited to what area you can use and how much the day affects it. I like having options on usage, just like laundry is preferable on sunny days, running the dryer or dishwasher on sunny days. It could remain cloudy or clouds all morning and the sun unexpectedly comes out and you can take advantage of it. I prefer to be flexible, I can manage my system and loads according to my choice.

Last year we used less than 3% of total Kwh for the house from the grid. Meanwhile, we increased usage by about 15% by switching to heat pump tech for both heating and cooling. I expect to see an increase again in the next year as we moved to the heat pump water heater and added another heat pump mini split. My idea is to generate as much as I can and use it when I can but not exceed system generation and use power from the grid. Some might not be interested in maximizing yield and solar power usage. That is fine.

You can choose the path that best fits you. What you like is not what others like. That is why we have choices. My choice with my system is to utilize efficiency while others might just want to have excess potential waiting to be used but never use it. I entered into this with the mindset to see how efficient this could be and generate the best ROI in the shortest time.

 

[Zwy]

wtf how do they even spring a leak lmao
You'd think these companies can make a container to hold water by now

They do, stainless and abs.

Not cheap, I bought a lifetime plastic tank water heater for a rental, about double the price.

 

[Quattrohead]

Hot water tanks in the UK are copper, I never heard of one leaking, ever.

 

[Brett V]

I've been running a GE Geospring heat pump water heater for 10 years now...trouble free. I do have a water softener and believe that makes all the difference in the world as far as longevity goes.