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House burned down

B-Mod said:
Better yet is a thermal imaging camera, such as a flir, or many other brands out there.
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They indeed have a place. Most people can afford the non contact Thermometer as they are just a few dollars. Plus the readout is simple temperature.
OzSolar said:
Even better would taking the system to 100% of it's rating and checking voltage drop across every single connection. No need to wait for heat to build up or risk false readings from shiny terminals that don't like their temperature took.
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That is required for initial setup but down the road maintenance you want something to give you a quick check.
 
Mattb4 said:
One tool that can come in handy to help prevent fires is a non contact thermometer. You should periodically run checks around your Inverter setup and batteries for hot spots.
View attachment 212063
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I do a monthly PM check on my system, just as we do on customers sites. One of the checks I make is with a flir thermal camera. Anything getting warm shows up quickly.
 
I haven’t done a review, but I don’t recall Victron talking about fuses between the battery bank and the lynx. It may be in there, but I just don’t recall it. Seems like that part of the system is a bit out of their purview unless you were using a Victron battery.

I was also under the impression that insurance might not cover electrical components that are not UL listed. At least in the United States. And I’ve heard that victron does not have UL listed components. Again, I haven’t tracked this down at independently.

Glad things are working out for the OP. And sorry for your loss. It takes a while to recover from a catastrophic fire. Glad you are OK.
 
FilterGuy said:
This is something I have wondered about for quite a while. They support Megafuses in all their gear and sell 48B versions of Megafuses, but they never really address the AIC question. Several months back I had the chance to talk to a Victron 'ambassador' about a system and he was recommending a Cass-T.... which I found 'interesting' given this is not documented by Victron. When I pressed him on it he said he always uses a T class when more than one LiFePo4 battery is in parallel. He also claimed the ABYC was going to change their recommendation to more along the lines of what he is doing, but I don't know if that has happened.
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I think most here on the forum know I have been hammering on the use of Class T fuses since forever (and at times received push-back). I also talked to Victron (and other) reps at several occasions about using class T fuses (or at least similar, like BS88 etc), and did the same with BMS manufacturers when paralleling of batteries comes up. I'm glad to hear there are some signals appearing that vendors/etc. are finally addressing this.
 
Jejochen said:
Also wanna add that we had 6 nest protects in the house, and none gave alarm but after 20 minutes when the house was full of smoke. My son discovered a meter of smoke against the ceiling and woke everyone up. If he hadnt wake up, there would have been 4 funerals this week.
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Perhaps the Nest devices were dependent on house line power and that had failed when the flaw in the power system started, sufficiently before the devices could detect the fire that they were no longer operating, or no longer operating well enough to communicate and make alarm sounds.
 
Jejochen said:
Also wanna add that we had 6 nest protects in the house, and none gave alarm but after 20 minutes when the house was full of smoke. My son discovered a meter of smoke against the ceiling and woke everyone up. If he hadnt wake up, there would have been 4 funerals this week.
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Make sure when you rebuild you have ionizing smoke detectors verse just the standard optical/heat ones. The ionizing ones can go off from just a clear haze from when the fire is smoldering before starting into full flames, look them up.

www.nfpa.org

Ionization vs photoelectric

The two most commonly recognized smoke detection technologies are ionization smoke detection and photoelectric smoke detection.
www.nfpa.org www.nfpa.org
 
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OzSolar said:
@Jejochen So sorry for your loss but thankfully your and your family are safe.


I'd add that Class T fuses are rated to open safely at these high AIC's without risk of causing other damage (exploding) or failing in such a way that they don't remain open. I can't readily find a reference but I've often heard it's possible for a fuse to fail in such a way that it doesn't open.
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This thread is an example of such a fuse failure.
 
Jejochen said:
The fuse picture i posted was just an answer to the "what is a meltfuse" question.
The exact fuse was a mega 48v, 300 A.

The insurance is no problem.
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Sorry for your loss.

I know this is a sensitive subject but you said insurance is no problem.

Did you have your system inspected by the county? Permitted?

The reason I ask is there has been some debate on here about insurance companies denying claims for DIY installations.
 
Nobodybusiness said:
The reason I ask is there has been some debate on here about insurance companies denying claims for DIY installations.
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Seems like this is easier in (some) European countries compared to the States, at least based on my, albeit small, sample size from both places. It always seems it's a fight to get the insurance money over there with tons of strings attached compared to Europe.
 
This really sickens me to hear about the OP’s loss. I’m glad no one was physically harmed.
I’d be a bit pessimistic about the actual cause, because the fire could definitely obliterate it. The fuse, though not my favorite shouldn’t have caused the problem. The fact that it happened at a low demand period makes this more confusing. My only takeaways are perhaps an insulation failure of a battery case to another cell or metal structure in the vicinity? I hadn’t seen any visible cell isolation. A loosened terminal somewhere in the system that spat arcs & sparks? I’ve noticed that terminals do loosen over time but mostly early on, so it’s always a good idea to check all torques of every connection. As mentioned before, a good smoke detector could have perhaps given early warning and if home at the time to intervene before the damage was so extensive. A smoke detector with combination photo & ionic detectors wired into the house system would be advantageous. Mine is so sensitive that I can’t do a few moments of heat shrinking near it. Again this is rough., sorry. 😞
 
42OhmsPA said:
Sorry for your loss and good luck on the rebuild. The good thing is everyone in your family was OK.

Has an insurance adjuster reviewed everything yet?

Do you plan to use Class T fuses when you rebuild?
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The next question is insurance going to cover a DIY installed solar system? Or was this professionally installed with a permit?
 
The nest protects were all on full battery. The alarms went off, but 20 minutes to late.

Some clarification on the insurance matters: back in the days i teamed up with another electrician and started making battery installs at several customers based on this system. Before doing that, we made sure the system had an CE certification. Based on this, the system was complient to all demands.

Keep it safe yall
 
Jejochen said:
Cant reply to all posts, but;

Also had the Android flir attachment.

Maintenance was done very regularly, like checking all bolts etc...
I can even say the last time was 2 weeks ago, and no issues.
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I guess that answers any questions about loosened bolts over time etc.
 
First of all to the OP I'm ever so sorry this has happened to you.
I cannot see why a fuse tried to blow when your system was idling in the middle of the night, I'm still more likely to think a connection was loose and looking at your other thread I do not like the look of those fuse holders.
Right here is the very reason that NEC wants all DC wiring and components in metal enclosures.
 
So one thing I notice in all the pictures of the battery cells. It appears there is no separator between the individual cells? Seems like I remember reading that if they are under any sort of compression or even straight confinement sonthe expansion is limited there should be some sort of separator used?

I know in one of the threads the OP had one or more vented cells. Could that be a cause? Cell vent which off-gases hydrogen among other things. Shorted cell generates heat and with the hydrogen confined it just needs a spark. If the high current causes the fuse to blow but arc keeps it alive it will melt the casing and catch fire. One reason I don't like the ANN, ANL, and all their cousins.
 
robbob2112 said:
So one thing I notice in all the pictures of the battery cells. It appears there is no separator between the individual cells? Seems like I remember reading that if they are under any sort of compression or even straight confinement sonthe expansion is limited there should be some sort of separator used?

I know in one of the threads the OP had one or more vented cells. Could that be a cause? Cell vent which off-gases hydrogen among other things. Shorted cell generates heat and with the hydrogen confined it just needs a spark. If the high current causes the fuse to blow but arc keeps it alive it will melt the casing and catch fire. One reason I don't like the ANN, ANL, and all their cousins.
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Yes I saw that, I always worry about liquid oozing out and weakening fiber based shelves:

Screenshot_20240428_141746_Chrome.jpg
 
upnorthandpersonal said:
I think most here on the forum know I have been hammering on the use of Class T fuses since forever (and at times received push-back). I also talked to Victron (and other) reps at several occasions about using class T fuses (or at least similar, like BS88 etc), and did the same with BMS manufacturers when paralleling of batteries comes up. I'm glad to hear there are some signals appearing that vendors/etc. are finally addressing this.
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Class T fuses are not cheap. And they are not instant, either. When I was doing my research on this (on account of the high price tag for Class T), I discovered that whereas I had thought they were almost instant, they also have a delay before blowing. Another fuse, at a much cheaper price, which is said to have a similar delay, is what I ultimately went with for my system. The Class T fuses, for my locality, seemed uncommon, whereas the NH fuses are in common use.

Here's one example: https://www.solar-europe.co.za/product/dc-200a-fuse-link-500v-fl200a/

I have not seen much discussion on the forums about the NH fuses. Apparently, they have a lag time on par with Class T, and some sites I have found from users in Europe appeared more confident in the NH fuse than in a Class T fuse. I'm interested in learning more on this comparison, if anyone here has intimate knowledge of both, their advantages and disadvantages. The main advantage to the NH1 fuse for me was the price. The fuse itself is rather bulky, and occupies roughly the lower third of my breaker box--virtually an entire row to itself under two rows of breakers.
 
That's why I also mentioned BS88 fuses.

In principle, you want either aR/gR or gS class fuses. The first ones are very fast acting, semiconductor protection fuses. The latter one is for battery protection. NH type fuses are available in these classes.
 
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Quattrohead said:
First of all to the OP I'm ever so sorry this has happened to you.
I cannot see why a fuse tried to blow when your system was idling in the middle of the night, I'm still more likely to think a connection was loose and looking at your other thread I do not like the look of those fuse holders.
Right here is the very reason that NEC wants all DC wiring and components in metal enclosures.
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Been thinking of the middle of the night aspect. Pure speculation, but that’s when mice are most likely to be chewing on insulation. Still…an appropriate fuse close to the battery should have prevented this.
 
Skypower said:
My only takeaways are perhaps an insulation failure of a battery case to another cell or metal structure in the vicinity?
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That's my takeaway from both fires so far. Both have evidence of how the short unfolded and what it caused, but not a clear answer afaik as to how the short started. I would suspect by default that case shorts are most likely.

I am glad I did not start with DIY until after the community started insisting on FR4.
 
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