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House burned down

I don't think that it was simply one cell went to zero and caused all that. As pointed out, a 3(ish) volt differential wouldn't sustain an arc, regardless of amps.
More cells blowing out? Perhaps.
But what data we do have shows some heavy loading occurring right before things went south.
Maybe it was a combination of things. A perfect storm, so to speak.

At any rate, I don't think we'll ever figure it out (as much as I wish we could) just because we do not have enough data.
 
I can't wrap my mind around arcing a fuse at 3v (One shorted cell)


It isn't about the voltage so much as the reduced resistance of the pack. The reduced resistace means the othe packs will dump current into the reduced pack.
 
It isn't about the voltage so much as the reduced resistance of the pack. The reduced resistace means the othe packs will dump current into the reduced pack.
BUT 3V difference isn't going to sustain an arc across the the fuse. Even if you were dumping 500A, that's still only at 3V and the mega should never have a problem breaking that at only a 3V potential difference.
 
Outside of the obvious cost, would there be any detriment to mixing fuse types in parallel? Eg possibly fastest blowing on side of battery followed by a slower blowing? MRBF then class T?
 
The fuse is seeing 48V nominal; its circuit path is back to the negative. The 3V delta is really just across the failed string.

But the other 6 strings now see that shorted battery string as a load.

The voltage may start an arc but the current will maintain it over a longer distance. Look for a youtube video where someone is laying a screwdriver across a 12v car battery. He never actually touches the other post and then he draws the arc out what looks like 4 to 6 inches.

As the fuse blows there is a very small gap and the arc starts. As the fuse element draws back and melt the arc extinguishes under normal curcumstances. With high current even a low voltage can keep that arc going.

The class T has what appears to be sand in it that fills in the gaps when the fuse elements burn away. So now the arc has to blow through the sand to keep going. Just a theory but it may even fuse some of that sand material into glass.

If anyone has blown class t fuses around would be interesting to sift and see what is left?
 
If anyone has blown class t fuses around would be interesting to sift and see what is left?
I've only seen a Class K tested at 200kA AC. With them, the way they are ribbed it burns through in multiple places and then springs apart a little in the process. The sand in the immediate vicinity of the metal is all mixed granuals, but calling it glass is a good question.
 
Do EV batteries that use cobalt have anything to mitigate this supposed huge risk?
I am familiar with some Tesla packs and a Nissan Leaf pack. Tesla uses thin wires to parallel the individual cells. They also use utumescent insulation between the cells which expands when hot and offers some fire retardent characteristics. Water cooling with lots of temperature sensors and a sophisticated battery management system all reduce the risk. There have been fires but those have mostly been a result of a collision which compromises the pack.
The Nissan pack is air cooled and uses pouch cells in a 2P2S metal module and these modules are in series for the Nissan pack.
 
I am familiar with some Tesla packs and a Nissan Leaf pack. Tesla uses thin wires to parallel the individual cells. They also use utumescent insulation between the cells which expands when hot and offers some fire retardent characteristics. Water cooling with lots of temperature sensors and a sophisticated battery management system all reduce the risk. There have been fires but those have mostly been a result of a collision which compromises the pack.
The Nissan pack is air cooled and uses pouch cells in a 2P2S metal module and these modules are in series for the Nissan pack.
I believe the Tesla packs also have replaceable pyro disconnects in case of critical failures.
 
I recently had a smallish shed fire but this heated nearby propane tanks (stored on outside wall) which vented/ignited and then cascaded thru several bottles causing massive inferno. So sorry for the OP and the doubt it brings to all of us DIY'ing.

After reading about 70% of this thread I'm not clear on how the fire spread from arcing fuse..... to total house destruction?
1) Arc started a fire in some nearby combustible material and then spread to the battery bank and then the home?
2) Arc caused a nearby LifePo4 cell to vent / catch fire and spread.... (analogous to propane tanks venting then catching fire causing inferno??)
3) Other?

What actually burned due to the fuse arc? Would a metal box around the fuses have contained it?!?

FYI, I'm US and have State Farm insurance and even though my DIY setup was found to be the cause - e.g. there is some potential liability - they have paid the claim and were very nice about it all. Not sure if they will cancel my policy at renewal time... will have to see.
 
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Glad no one was hurt or killed. Win and Win. Op lives in Belgium and had insurance according earlier post. 3 phase Victron 5000 setup to charge Tesla. System died at night with basically no loads is what read. Nothing going on.


In the past there was a Victron Fuse shown on youtube smoking - was a year or so ago… at around that same time ppl were saying there were counterfeit branded Victron mega fuses on the internet being sold for that video. Video is gone.
Victron mega fuse are shown as slow blow…. In video below….. Hmmmm Again I can’t find the video of the mega fuse doing an arc smoke show. I Found one not blowing until 2x amps wish he had shown timer.


Hmmm slow blow

Multi-Plus II solder bridge at battery terminals in link. Not sure if this developed or if it was out of box new. Details Reported his fuse blew and saved system. Hmmm hair solder bridge at inverter blew the Victron fuse…… must have been one strong hair of solder.

One could argue if OP had stayed with only 6 strings might not been any problems. Pushing until something pushes back…..
We always want more and more. Right?

Have questionS what was the shunt rating for this system? Was the shunt upgraded? Was there a shunt?
Obviously Something caused the fuse to fry. Something kicked it off to domino on a system that was assembled 4-5 years ago with follow up battery changes.

But the other 6 strings now see that shorted battery string as a load.

The voltage may start an arc but the current will maintain it over a longer distance. Look for a youtube video where someone is laying a screwdriver across a 12v car battery. He never actually touches the other post and then he draws the arc out what looks like 4 to 6 inches.

As the fuse blows there is a very small gap and the arc starts. As the fuse element draws back and melt the arc extinguishes under normal curcumstances. With high current even a low voltage can keep that arc going.

The class T has what appears to be sand in it that fills in the gaps when the fuse elements burn away. So now the arc has to blow through the sand to keep going. Just a theory but it may even fuse some of that sand material into glass.

If anyone has blown class t fuses around would be interesting to sift and see what is left?
We use to cut the Various T class type fuses apart and inspect them when components failed on locomotives - r&d. Bussmann makes good fuses. The sand turns to glass. Sometimes they still carry voltage - no current. Megger finds them but meter ohm scale might show as good. If fuses are in parallel we always replaced both by practice because other one was stressed - tattle tales pop on some fuses but not on others. Molten copper combination with shape charge defeats armor. The sand arrest the molten copper - snuffs fire. Shut off boxes sometimes blow if something on load is shorted the copper from contacts cuts right through the box front…why you stand to side cutting shut off box in ….on.

Exactly which fuse blew in this setup? Read he had correct amp Victron recommended fuses on batteries Victron correct amp recommended fuses on inverters. Which fuse blew?

These Victron 58v fuses are probably slow blow because Victron inverters can usually do 3x rated load for x amount of time. Right? Advantage of lf….
Been nice if guy in video had keep timer running he took 100amp mega fuse to ~230 amp. 👉🏻👀


I highly doubt this will ever be solved. If the components were not considered the best then would have already been dead and blamed on cheap inverter or something else.

Just by chance what was the shunt rated at in this system? Undersize shunts turn into heating elements until burn up.

I find it odd that Victron wants 6 awg on “ac out” with their 3000 multiplus II inverter. Hmmmm on 5000 the “ac in” is smaller than the “ac out.”
Since this guy was in Belgium assume he was using the 230vac models?
IMG_6321.png
 
I find it odd that Victron wants 6 awg on “ac out” with their 3000 multiplus II inverter. Hmmmm on 5000 the “ac in” is smaller than the “ac out.”
Since this guy was in Belgium assume he was using the 230vac models?
It's to take into account the Victrons "power assist" function, where it can supplement AC input with additional battery inversion on the AC 1 output.
 
It's to take into account the Victrons "power assist" function, where it can supplement AC input with additional battery inversion on the AC 1 output.
Thanks.

Is that only for the Victron 5000 vs 3000 models. I figured they had bigger wiring per surge - much larger then my MPP Solar 3048 on ac in and out - 10 ga vs 6 ga of Victron 3000. I was considering the Victron 3000 but would have to change all wiring…. This OP had what is considered best of best by most ppl.

I don’t think the OP system fault will ever be discovered. 😞 I’d still like to know which fuse tried to blow.?
 
Thanks.

Is that only for the Victron 5000 vs 3000 models. I figured they had bigger wiring per surge - much larger then my MPP Solar 3048 on ac in and out - 10 ga vs 6 ga of Victron 3000. I was considering the Victron 3000 but would have to change all wiring…. This OP had what is considered best of best by most ppl.

I don’t think the OP system fault will ever be discovered. 😞 I’d still like to know which fuse tried to blow.?
I believe all the multiplus can do power assist except the smallest multiplus 500VA, assist current available depends on the model.
 
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thin wires to parallel the individual cells
I read about this but it was in reference to balancing. They specifically said fused balance wires. Could that be the case? Why would they parallel them with wires that act as fuses. I mean, wouldnt the equivalent be us wiring 200 Ah batteries with 16 awg?
 
I recently had a smallish shed fire but this heated nearby propane tanks (stored on outside wall) which vented/ignited and then cascaded thru several bottles causing massive inferno. So sorry for the OP and the doubt it brings to all of us DIY'ing.

After reading about 70% of this thread I'm not clear on how the fire spread from arcing fuse..... to total house destruction?
1) Arc started a fire in some nearby combustible material and then spread to the battery bank and then the home?
2) Arc caused a nearby LifePo4 cell to vent / catch fire and spread.... (analogous to propane tanks venting then catching fire causing inferno??)
3) Other?

What actually burned due to the fuse arc? Would a metal box around the fuses have contained it?!?

FYI, I'm US and have State Farm insurance and even though my DIY setup was found to be the cause - e.g. there is some potential liability - they have paid the claim and were very nice about it all. Not sure if they will cancel my policy at renewal time... will have to see.
What size propane tanks? the little 5 gallons or the 125 gallon fat boys?
 
I read about this but it was in reference to balancing. They specifically said fused balance wires. Could that be the case? Why would they parallel them with wires that act as fuses. I mean, wouldnt the equivalent be us wiring 200 Ah batteries with 16 awg?
Tesla do something interesting. They also have a BMS unit on each battery module, in addition to liquid cooling for temp control within the battery.


Screenshot_20240506_170933_Gallery.jpg
 
I recently had a smallish shed fire but this heated nearby propane tanks (stored on outside wall) which vented/ignited and then cascaded thru several bottles causing massive inferno. So sorry for the OP and the doubt it brings to all of us DIY'ing.

After reading about 70% of this thread I'm not clear on how the fire spread from arcing fuse..... to total house destruction?

It's about time you chimed in. :)
1) Arc started a fire in some nearby combustible material and then spread to the battery bank and then the home?
2) Arc caused a nearby LifePo4 cell to vent / catch fire and spread.... (analogous to propane tanks venting then catching fire causing inferno??)
3) Other?

There are those that go with #3 and have been bashing Batrium.

You have been a user of Batrium longer than I plus have exposure in the other forum (not named here). Those blaming the Batrium architecture of course do not use Batrium.


What actually burned due to the fuse arc? Would a metal box around the fuses have contained it?!?

MEGA fuses were used on each 16S battery and no Class T fuses. Most likely the fuse sustained the arc or blew hot material.


FYI, I'm US and have State Farm insurance and even though my DIY setup was found to be the cause - e.g. there is some potential liability - they have paid the claim and were very nice about it all. Not sure if they will cancel my policy at renewal time... will have to see.
 
Did it take the whole house or just the shed? looks like we'll need more than 10 feet!
It was 1am and seemed like it could take out the whole neighborhood but apparently it's good news the tanks vented and burned as apposed to exploding. Neighbors not happy and I don't blame them. Took out shared fence, shed, 27panel PV array, and 2 x 2500gal rain harvest tanks, and melted the neighbor's pool liner above the water line.

I can totally sympathize with the OP... traumatic experience.... but mine is minor compared to the OP as ours is just out-structure damage and all houses are fine/functional.
1715038436556.png1715038574805.png

It's been a month and rebuild is under way..... shared fence restored and enough cleanup to reduce the trauma.
1715038766736.png
 
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