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Boughtnotbuilt

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I’m developing some remote lots in Colorado where it’s not cost effective to bring power in, so to support the site while development happens and as a demonstration unit for potential buyers, I want to build a solar power center in a 20’ shipping container. This would need to be able to run a well pump at 200’ plus and a small cabin.

My idea for specs would be (and I’m just spit-balling here)
22kw generac (or equivalent) generator (this should be able to run the well pump.
100amp panel with 220v power available - one of those new fancy span panels?
Enough battery to run the system. The cabin won’t need much, and I’m kind of assuming it’s too much to ask the batteries to run the well pump. So, 5kw? 10kw?
Enough solar panels to keep the batteries up. This is a high altitude south facing southern colorado location - lots and lots of sun.
Intelligent Controller and inverter capable of managing the entire thing, including turning on the generator as needed - I know my enphase system does this now. But I’m hoping I can get away with something smaller and cheaper.

The idea is that all of this, including the generator, goes in the container. Solar panels go on the side and top. Generator is fully ventilated outside. There’s a set of outlets at the panel or you can wire straight into the panel.

In googling this, there were too many options and I could not find controllers and inverters that were the right size for what I need.
 
I would do Schneider XW, Schneider 80 or 100 600, Kohler 48v with DOT tanks, 30kWh minimum, 2x Powerpro.

The roof and side of a 20 foot container is a very small solar surface and might only help reduce propane consumption, if there will be any HVAC loads. No HVAC or 1 window AC then might be possible to run on that solar.
 
No generac units

A small 12 kw diesel plant will reliably provide the enough power to run a modern home.

Kubota or Isuzu diesels with simple mechanical injection pumps and mechanical governors

A known brand of quality generator head

Your looking for something that can be used frequently and provide enough power to light your home and charge batteries.

That’s what I would look for used

Avoid anything that come from a rental yard
If it being sold it’s no longer reliable.
If it’s a good deal I’m good shape it’s stollen property.
No equipment rental place sells a good money making unit
 
Last edited:
How many gallons of water per day do you need?
A well pump could be run by PV alone. Just depends on how many kW and kWh are required.

There are PV direct pump controllers, run variable speed and don't use batteries.
 
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Since you are building a "demonstration unit for potential buyers" then plan for what most buyers might want, all the comforts or home.
Refrigerator/Freezer and possibly other small appliances, the ability to have running water 24/7 (flush a toilet at night for example), Laundry equipment, Microwave oven etc.

The well pump is probably the single driving factor and the type of pump used will be a big input to the choice of inverter, batteries and system design you select.

There are many very energy efficient appliances and lighting choices so these are the least of your concerns.
 
Seems like overkill to me. Variable speed or and soft start pumps start easily on low amps. A decent 10KW liquid cooled low speed propane (if fuel delivery is possible) or diesel generator, a simple all-in-one inverter & battery, and properly optimized bifacial panels should do nicely. Bifacial panels are especially useful where snow is an issue and when vertically mounted, they will self-clear of snow.
 
Agreed on the soft start pump. Ditch the genny. Who wants to live with that racket.

Plentiful sun. Go all solar and batteries. Everyone will be happier.
 
You can get by with a smaller generator and a Chargeverter feeding your batteries, so the gen never has to power the house directly. Just get a large enough inverter for powering the well pump. I bet two EG4 6000XP would do it.

 
Browse said:
You can get by with a smaller generator and a Chargeverter feeding your batteries, so the gen never has to power the house directly. Just get a large enough inverter for powering the well pump. I bet two EG4 6000XP would do it.

Click to expand...
What if the inverter fails and the generator can't start the pump?
I'd go with a Grundfos soft start pump so it can be easily ran from a tiny generator or backup inverter in case the primary failed.
 
Browse said:
You can get by with a smaller generator and a Chargeverter feeding your batteries, so the gen never has to power the house directly. Just get a large enough inverter for powering the well pump. I bet two EG4 6000XP would do it.
Click to expand...

Caution: Many electronics packages are NOT rated for rural Colorado style altitudes. The Chargeverter is only rated to 4921 ft. (1500m) and the 6000XP to 6561ft (2000m).

That backup generator you were quoting is so large bcause a genny has to be sized to handle the starting PEAKS. With an an inverter/battery/(genny and/or solar) combo your inverter (if big enough) can handle the starting loads and the genny only the AVERAGE power to keep the batteries charged if you have no sun for long enough for them to run down. Rather than 23 kW you could get away with 5 kW and run it 5 hrs per day to put a 25 kWhr on the batteries and feed an average load of a kW forever, 10 hrs/day for 2 kW average, etc. That's a BIG price break on the backup genny and its infrastructure.
 
Browse said:
Yep, a soft start pump is definitely better in such a scenario.
Click to expand...

And its manual will likely tell you exactly how much genny or inverter power you need to run it under worst-case conditions.

For instance: I have an older model soft-start pump - a Goulds BF15 balanced-flow model (which also adjusts pump power to maintain desired pressure, needing only a tiny (gallon-ish) pressure tank to cover a couple seconds of startup delay when a tap is turned on.) The manual explicitly says:
A GENERATOR WITH A MINIMUM
RATING OF 20A AT 230V AC± 10%
4600W CAN BE USED TO POWER THE
CONTROLLER.
Click to expand...
So it can be operated just fine, with power to spare, from a typical roll-around portable genny with a 30A trailer outlet.
 
Thanks so much for all the great information.
"Since you are building a "demonstration unit for potential buyers" then plan for what most buyers might want, all the comforts or home"
Is right. We are not trying to minimize, we are going to have to show that a normal house can fun just find.
Soft start pump for sure, but also a storage tank so the pump can run at optimal times.
Yes, the 20' container doesn't have enough panels, it's just to show concept, final installation would have a separate panel array.
 
A beautiful area once again marred by noise pollution coming from a device that could easily break down at the worst time, and easily run out of fuel (once again) at the worst time.

The quieter larger inverters seem to have a low frequency hum that penetrates walls; unnerving. Gear up with solar for the cloudy times.
 
Are you trying to sell cabins or solar power stations?

I would pick one and stick to that. If you are developing the solar power system in situ for each cabin, then install it normally in a permanently placed power shed or just build the shed and outsource it to an off grid solar company.

The portable solar power station business is tricky, and the last guy who did well with it is in jail now. So I would probably stick to the property development.
 
@ULR - "Caution: Many electronics packages are NOT rated for rural Colorado style altitudes. The Chargeverter is only rated to 4921 ft. (1500m) and the 6000XP to 6561ft (2000m)."

Do you know why this is? top building site is over 7800'
 
Browse said:
Some are really quiet. My Honda EU7000is purrs. You can have a quiet conversation right next to it.
Click to expand...

Those are nice machines. Only takes a couple of them in a remote campsite and it’s like sitting in traffic all night. Miserable for everyone except the people in the motorhome.
 
I can see fuel-based generators being derated at higher altitudes because of lower air density, but why would any of that matter for an inverter or other piece of electronics?
 
Bluedog225 said:
Those are nice machines. Only takes a couple of them in a remote campsite and it’s like sitting in traffic all night. Miserable for everyone except the people in the motorhome.
Click to expand...
Yeah...that's why I like a battery backup & inverter system as primary power. Only have to run the gen for a few hours to recharge.
 
SparkyJJO said:
I can see fuel-based generators being derated at higher altitudes because of lower air density, but why would any of that matter for an inverter or other piece of electronics?
Click to expand...
I imagine, lower air density equals fans can push less air mass through the radiators meaning bigger radiators are necessary. There should be a derating table rather than a solid boundary.

It is just a guess though. What else can it be?

I too am in favor of soft start for the well pump. I have a 1kW 90mm bore down-well unit that came with its own soft start box. It run fine on an old Chinese "12V 4000W" inverter (this thing definitely wasn't 4kW, it could run my microwave at 800W (with the dish spinning visibly slower), but the 2.5kW kettle would kill it instantly. I have a 50L water tank so if you water the garden or take a shower the pump clicks on and off once per 2~3 minutes. It has been running like this for 8 years and it is still good. Thanks to that soft start box I think.
 
To answer a previous question, I'm not selling the solar systems, or even cabins, I'm selling land. The point of building this is a proof of concept for potential buyers to see what kind of equipment they would/could get to run off grid.

So, it just occurred to me that it's a bad idea to put a propane tank inside a shipping container. So, the fuel source for the generator would be diesel??? Although, for the final installation in someone's home, I'm assuming the generator would be propane based.

Is there any reason not to just buy an Enphase system for this? Since, it's something closer to what a home owner would eventually get.
 
Luk88 said:
I imagine, lower air density equals fans can push less air mass through the radiators meaning bigger radiators are necessary. There should be a derating table rather than a solid boundary.

It is just a guess though. What else can it be?

I too am in favor of soft start for the well pump. I have a 1kW 90mm bore down-well unit that came with its own soft start box. It run fine on an old Chinese "12V 4000W" inverter (this thing definitely wasn't 4kW, it could run my microwave at 800W (with the dish spinning visibly slower), but the 2.5kW kettle would kill it instantly. I have a 50L water tank so if you water the garden or take a shower the pump clicks on and off once per 2~3 minutes. It has been running like this for 8 years and it is still good. Thanks to that soft start box I think.
Click to expand...
There is more with that, like isolation breakdown and forces changed because of lower air pressure, found this informative article:

here: https://www.smart-energy.com/indust... the,resulting in decreased mechanical stress.
 
Basically a manufacturer will submit a unit for UL testing etc to a listed upper altitude limit. To be certified at higher altitudes I guess the traces have to have more clearance.

Screenshot_20240528_091311_Samsung Notes.jpg
 
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