few questions about solar power....

Sorry but I'd trust a handyman here about as much a chocolate kettle, the majority of buildings here have ground to earth just the un-handymen don't understand what a ground even means let alone how it's attached. See the image below, this is how the majority of roofs are connected to the beams below.

Even if it looks like pigeon poo my best guess is there has to be a decent weld amongst all that slag.

Hedges said:

I was thinking of the ground to test if GFCI was working.
If you have an extension cord able to reach the ground from the outlet, you could test leakage there. Or test a connection from ground pin to moist earth, then push self-test button.

We also have portable GFCI power strips. Used for construction sites, etc. That doesn't require changing existing outlet. Might need 3-prong adapter.

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O was under the impression that the cable had to be wrapped around a copper rod that is at least 1m deep..can i just have exposed copper buried only 3 Inches deep ???

Oh

ThaiTaffy said:

Sorry but I'd trust a handyman here about as much a chocolate kettle, the majority of buildings here have ground to earth just the un-handymen don't understand what a ground even means let alone how it's attached. See the image below, this is how the majority of roofs are connected to the beams below.
View attachment 220585
Even if it looks like pigeon poo my best guess is there has to be a decent weld amongst all that slag.

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Wow no, you have seen that my poopy apt is nothing like that,

I have no problem drilling a small hole in that beam above my desk, or wrapping the other end of the ground to my balcony railing..... I will ask if I can dangle a long cable to the ground and if 2-3 inches deep is enough for you, I think she will allow it

corporal_Canada said:

Oh

Wow no, you have seen that my poopy apt is nothing like that,

I have no problem drilling a small hole in that beam above my desk, or wrapping the other end of the ground to my balcony railing..... I will ask if I can dangle a long cable to the ground and if 2-3 inches deep is enough for you, I think she will allow it

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I doubt the railing is attached to the builings rebar and the suggested cable a few inches deep only works on very wet soil. they crazy thing is your air conditioner should be earthed they normally fit rods just for them and for the electric showers but im guessing you would have noticed the cables running down the wall, they even started fitting lightning rods to alot of the larger buildings here.

ThaiTaffy said:

I doubt the railing is attached to the builings rebar and the suggested cable a few inches deep only works on very wet soil. they crazy thing is your air conditioner should be earthed they normally fit rods just for them and for the electric showers but im guessing you would have noticed the cables running down the wall, they even started fitting lightning rods to alot of the larger buildings here.

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the grounding prong for my AC is clipped off, i already thought of that
and i spoke to my cousin back home.. he told me to remove the 2 short wires in the back of the gfci plug.. yes i didput them there because i thought it was standard practice.. observe photo...

https://postimg.cc/FftMCHZ5

put it back in.. no change.. he also told me any kind of conductive alloy is a must.. it has to be "clamped" on from wire to that conductive alloy. and he said 10 feet deep..

corporal_Canada said:

the grounding prong for my AC is clipped off, i already thought of that
and i spoke to my cousin back home.. he told me to remove the 2 short wires in the back of the gfci plug.. yes i didput them there because i thought it was standard practice.. observe photo...

https://postimg.cc/FftMCHZ5

put it back in.. no change.. he also told me any kind of conductive alloy is a must.. it has to be "clamped" on from wire to that conductive alloy. and he said 10 feet deep..

Click to expand...

10ft doesnt really apply here you could go 20ft and still not get a great earth.
The reason i said the buildings frame is normally ok is because it will have multiple lengths of rebar driven into the soil 4 per pillar at least 4 pillars so thats technically 16 ground rods at 1m depths, personally i had to drive 3x6ft rods and 2x9 ft rods to get an earth of below 5ohms on my house. and then also bond that to the steal frame.

Visual update of what I'm going through... And 2 minutes of self banter about future plans.....

I ac

ThaiTaffy said:

10ft doesnt really apply here you could go 20ft and still not get a great earth.
The reason i said the buildings frame is normally ok is because it will have multiple lengths of rebar driven into the soil 4 per pillar at least 4 pillars so thats technically 16 ground rods at 1m depths, personally i had to drive 3x6ft rods and 2x9 ft rods to get an earth of below 5ohms on my house. and then also bond that to the steal frame.

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Actually wanted to use the balcony railing because it is connected to the stairs and I kinda thought the stairs would go at least 20cm into the ground... Nothing INSIDE my apt is exposed, somewhat old but still hard concrete bricks, apperantly it survived that horrible typhoon yolanda 10 years ago...

slightly off topic.. added a well it said 300watt solar panel but in full sunlight i calculated that im only getting 40.5 watts.. 15v times 2.7a
unless im doing it wrong... my powerbank is now only being filled with solar buy keep in mind.. i was charging it all night and the first part of the morning... with the chinese smart charger.. will receive a sort of "watt meter" showing me how much is exactly going into the battery...

corporal_Canada said:

slightly off topic.. added a well it said 300watt solar panel but in full sunlight i calculated that im only getting 40.5 watts.. 15v times 2.7a
unless im doing it wrong... my powerbank is now only being filled with solar buy keep in mind.. i was charging it all night and the first part of the morning... with the chinese smart charger.. will receive a sort of "watt meter" showing me how much is exactly going into the battery...

Click to expand...

Added the panel to what? If you have panels in a string the string will only add up from the power of your weakest panel ie 300-200-40 will only be 40-40-40 try the panels one by one then get rid of anything that would drag the string down( not 100% on this it's just my simple understanding).

ThaiTaffy said:

Added the panel to what? If you have panels in a string the string will only add up from the power of your weakest panel ie 300-200-40 will only be 40-40-40 try the panels one by one then get rid of anything that would drag the string down( not 100% on this it's just my simple understanding).

Click to expand...

sorry for not being clear.. i added this particular solar panel to the dc5521 port of my mppt solar charge controller...
just solar panel.. 3m extention cable.. and then mppt... nothing else

ThaiTaffy said:

Added the panel to what? If you have panels in a string the string will only add up from the power of your weakest panel ie 300-200-40 will only be 40-40-40 try the panels one by one then get rid of anything that would drag the string down( not 100% on this it's just my simple understanding).

Click to expand...

am i to understand that i cannot simply jam all solar panels into 1 mppt and link that same mppt to battery bank ???

i believe my mppt can handle a total of 30 amps.. lemme just double check...

yep.. 30a.. so that is what.. 320 watts max that it can feedinto the battery or 320 watts that it can only receive...?

im sorry, please let me paint you a picture.. i have a 2 inch cable screwed into the + next to the little solar panel symbol ON the mppt.. and an equal length cable on the - of same image... ... all the postive cables of my 3 largest solar panels go to tha + wire... and same for the negative to the - wire... i did it this way so that i dont have to repeatedly unscrew the thing holding each set of wires on the + and - of the mppt... from the little battery image. + side .. it goes to a 80a fuse... and then to the positive terminal of the RIGHT battery... (i have 2 linked in parallel)
from the - of the battery image it goes to a switch.. and from switch it goes to negative terminal of LEFT battery...the switch was put in place to break the circuit in case of an emergency or to charge both batteries from another power source which im doing at this moment.. chinese SMART charger...showing.. 12.7v.. and pumping 10.4a.. yes that is roughly.. 127 watts.. but my pc and everything is only consuming 129 watts.. and i do keep this charger plugged in all night(the charger to the batteries.. in the morning i look and it is feeding 3 amps)... to keep the battery bank at full capacity... and if you are trained to withstand vocal torture, i am happy to demonstrate in a video, however.. a Quebec accent is involved... (celine dion syndrome)

and just for fun i will add that the brandname of my smart chinese battery charger is XINCHANGXIN 3800A
it is a "pulse" charger meant to desulfate dead battery rods.. but mine is set to "automatic model" and NOT repair model

Sorry I really know very little about parallel connections and how different panels behave to help, I understand that amperage increases in parallel but that's about it.

corporal_Canada said:

am i to understand that i cannot simply jam all solar panels into 1 mppt and link that same mppt to battery bank ???

i believe my mppt can handle a total of 30 amps.. lemme just double check...

yep.. 30a.. so that is what.. 320 watts max that it can feedinto the battery or 320 watts that it can only receive...?

Click to expand...

Draw a schematic and label each part with its ratings. That's the best way to communicate circuits.

PV panels in series add voltage, and current will be lowest of all panels.
PV panels (or strings of series connected panels) in parallel adds current, and voltage will be lowest of all panels (or strings of panels.)

Use that to determine operating voltage, for power calculations.

Do not exceed voltage rating of MPPT! Consider each series string independently for its maximum voltage (not the reduced voltage another string might drag it down to) to ensure you don't kill MPPT.

Don't exceed maximum current rating of MPPT (we may do that, but with our eyes wide open.) Consider highest current panel in each string, and add all in parallel, to determine max current MPPT will experience.

We normally use all one PV panel model, and wire nSmP. But again we deviate from that with our eyes wide open.

Multiple separate MPPT, each with some panels, is the normally accepted way to go. Make sure maximum current (output of MPPT, not input from PV panels) doesn't exceed battery's allowed charge current. Simplest way to determine that is add up rated wattage of all PV panels and divide by battery voltage. e.g. 600W of panels / 12V battery = 50A charge current. Your mileage may be less due to mismatch between panels or panels vs. MPPT, but will not exceed that.

Hedges said:

PV panels in series add voltage, and current will be lowest of all panels.
PV panels (or strings of series connected panels) in parallel adds current, and voltage will be lowest of all panels (or strings of panels.)

Click to expand...

Thanks that's a simple explanation I'll remember

And by the way, I measured Voc of a PV panel in the shade. It was about the same as Vmp of a PV panel in full sun (I read display of GT PV inverter and divided by number in series.)

What that means is you can have a PV string aimed due East, wired in parallel with another aimed due West. In late afternoon when sun only falls on the West string, having the East string in parallel doesn't cause any power loss because it's voltage is just as high (but at zero output current.)

I like to do this to get more hours of operation, more kWh from a given MPPT, without exceeding max current.

No anti-backfeed diodes required. However, fuses should be used if 3 or more strings in parallel (if a short develops in wires, or bypass diode shorts, this prevents excessive backfed current.)

Only a PV panel in a dark room would get backfed current when in parallel with a panel in full sun.

Hedges said:

Draw a schematic and label each part with its ratings. That's the best way to communicate circuits.

PV panels in series add voltage, and current will be lowest of all panels.
PV panels (or strings of series connected panels) in parallel adds current, and voltage will be lowest of all panels (or strings of panels.)

Use that to determine operating voltage, for power calculations.

Do not exceed voltage rating of MPPT! Consider each series string independently for its maximum voltage (not the reduced voltage another string might drag it down to) to ensure you don't kill MPPT.

Don't exceed maximum current rating of MPPT (we may do that, but with our eyes wide open.) Consider highest current panel in each string, and add all in parallel, to determine max current MPPT will experience.

We normally use all one PV panel model, and wire nSmP. But again we deviate from that with our eyes wide open.

Multiple separate MPPT, each with some panels, is the normally accepted way to go. Make sure maximum current (output of MPPT, not input from PV panels) doesn't exceed battery's allowed charge current. Simplest way to determine that is add up rated wattage of all PV panels and divide by battery voltage. e.g. 600W of panels / 12V battery = 50A charge current. Your mileage may be less due to mismatch between panels or panels vs. MPPT, but will not exceed that.

Click to expand...

Voila, your schematic... The windiy noise is the. Inverter fan noise

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▒▒▒▒▒▒▐▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▌
▄▀▀▀█▒▐░▀▀▄▀▀░▌▒█▀▀▀▄
▌▌▌▌▐▒▄▌░▄▄▄░▐▄▒▌
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can i connect more than 1 solar panel to a mppt or a solar charge controller ? or does each solar panel need its own mppt or SCC ??? because at this momement.. 9 minuts to 2100.. i have 3 solar panels to the screw contacts and 1 40 watt in the DC5521 plug..
i figured this is the safest way because a battery should not have more than 1 input power source.. im still learning that is the beautiful part that makes me smile..

corporal_Canada said:

can i connect more than 1 solar panel to a mppt or a solar charge controller ? or does each solar panel need its own mppt or SCC ??? because at this momement.. 9 minuts to 2100.. i have 3 solar panels to the screw contacts and 1 40 watt in the DC5521 plug..
i figured this is the safest way because a battery should not have more than 1 input power source.. im still learning that is the beautiful part that makes me smile..

Click to expand...

unsure of what solar charge controller you have or what your panel specs are but if you connect panels in series you need to stay below the controllers maximum voltage/power(watts), if they are in parallel like your are then you need to stay below maximum current(amps)/power(watts) of the solar charge controller.
Batteries can have multiple power sources but the sum of those power sources cant add up to more than the maximum charging current of the battery.

Lemme save you 23 pages of reading -

He has a 30amp PWM controller and as of last I knew he had 3 x 50watt 12v (18.x VOC) panels connected in parallel. He can add a 4th 50w pannel to the other 3 and use the extra power. Each puts out a max of 4.2 amps.
50w * 4 panels * 0.7 for efficiency of pwm = max watts in of 140watts power in

140w / 14.2v (charge voltage)= 9.85amps

He has 2 x 12v 100ah AGM lead acid batteries in parallel - max charge current 11.2amps per so 22.4amps max we are 1/2 that or less

IF he respects the batteries he burns off 50% SOC - or 640Wh.

So - 640Wh / (9.8*12.8) = 5.1hours - that is how long at full sun he needs to fully charge his battery set. Now, I suspect he is running them to SOC of 20% or less. Basically until the inverter shuts off from low voltage. So it will probably take more like 8 hours of full sun to get a full charge.

Now - his crimps if you dig through and look at the videos and pictures are not good boardering on dangerous so I am sure there is heat loss there.

The inverter he had last time I saw it was labeled at 500w but performs more like 300w if that. He has several others unless they are gone that are 1000w labels or more, but are probably 100w inside.

It has been suggested multiple times he switch to LFP battery and/or to a MPPT as well. Both scare him and/or cost to much money to save up at one time (12000ish pesos each)

Now you have a good starting point and understanding of what he has.

robbob2112 said:

Lemme save you 23 pages of reading -

Click to expand...

Thanks alot!

So in other words a glutton for cheap unreliable components, maybe LFP should scare.

Corporal sorry but your using a solar setup minus the AC charger and inverter that I pretty much use to water my garden, learning is fair enough but I doubt your saving any electricity in reality by the losses from your ac charger and if your doing it for environmental reasons think of the e waste.

I know we get alot of power cuts so if you did it as a sudo UPS for your computer you would have been far better off not buying any inverters and just using a 12v Pico PSU and a cheap usb powered monitor.

Now onto the serious stuff,
Find a ground!!!! Otherwise the news in Asia will read "French Canadian found dead in apartment, likely wire fueled bdsm accident"

ThaiTaffy said:

"French Canadian found dead in apartment, likely wire fueled bdsm accident"

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I nearly choked laughing.
That would be a shocking headline

No, that wouldn't surprise me at all.

(You know about them French ...)