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Home Arc Fault Circuit Breaker

Tulex

Solar Wizard
Joined
Mar 30, 2023
Messages
1,175
Location
Finger Lakes NY
Code for new build is that almost all rooms require arc fault circuit breakers. Existing homes don't. I put a new panel in, so buying all new breakers. Other than cost, is there any downside to putting in all arc fault breakers? Are there places I wouldn't want them? Equipment or devices that don't work well with arc fault breakers?

Is arc fault a real issue? I mean, millions of homes built before these were required, is arc fault a common cause of house fires?
 

Well more info here in the first link.
Wat effect have on stuff .

Personal i'm from the EU.
And still think this a stupid thing to have in a house.
The EU systeem works better.
And the complete house shutdown.
So wy that erc systeem is in use ?
If somebody can explain it to me about it ?
If i see the first link i think wy ?

Link under is wat we use .

power.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residual-current_device

 
I think this is one of those cases where code doesn't make a lot of sense and is more of a cost and nuisance than the problem they were trying to solve warrants.
 
My house was built with all Arc Fault breakers in 2017. Never had a nuisance trip or anything. 🤷‍♂️
mine has arc fault breakers for the bedrooms. I guess it's designed to protect against a plug pushed against an outlet by a bed being damaged, etc. I have a bathroom fan that will nuisance trip one circuit on occasion, if you don't flick the switch quick enough
 
Agree with Tim.

I’ve had nuisance trips.

Some breakers have tripped when using power tools, while others have not.

The oddest trip was on a breaker that had been 100% reliable with my Dewalt miter saw. The breaker suddenly started tripping…same saw, no extension cord, same duplex outlet.

I had the charger for my Specialized Levo e-mtb plugged in to the same outlet…bike battery was not attached. I unplugged the charger and the tripping went away.

I’ve replaced two of the arc fault breakers with GFCI breakers in places where I run the power tools.

Grinders and hammer drills usually trip the arc fault breakers for me.

Also make sure that all of your connections are tight and check for nicks in your wire insulation at the outlet and on tools.

Good luck.
 
Are there places I wouldn't want them?
Receptacles that service the two required small appliance circuits in the kitchen, the garage, the required front and back outdoor receptacles, and bathroom receptacles are required to have GFCI protection. Pretty much the rest of the house gets arc fault. A lot of the breakers are combo, some are not. Make sure the devices that require GFCI protection are getting it.
The problem with updating houses with the more advanced breakers is circuits with shared neutrals. This was once a popular cost saving work practice but it makes it impossible to upgrade without redoing the wiring which is a substantial expense.
Inspectors that insist that you must bring the entire structure up to current code simply for changing the service equipment are overstepping in my opinion. It doesn't happen to me often but it has forced me to put escape clauses into my contracts.
Some things like GFCI s are probably worthwhile safety features but I think arc faults are questionable. Don't forget the device manufacturers love to convince the NEC that certain things are necessary to increase revenues.
 
Had to replace an arcfault in my little sister's house once.

Her daughter had a power strip that caused it to trip when plugged in on that circuit. Didn't do a thing anywhere else in the house. Tossed the power strip in the bin and it still nuisance tripped a few times after that, just not as often - replaced the breaker and everything is good since then. The house was about 5 years old at the time.
 
I understand arc fault is only required for 15A and 20A circuits.
Thought I would use it for larger, but QO series didn't offer. Think Homeline may.
Larger circuits tend to be point-to-point, less likely to have a place to start a fire.

My existing outlets and lights share a neutral. I got 2-pole 20A AFCI only, not combination with GFCI.
I put GFCI where I want it, which is not on refrigerator circuits.

Not sure why AFCI breaker trips without load neutral running current through it, but it does. (AFCI of course requires that.)

No nuisance trips yet. Haven't tried our old vacuum, which has brush-type motor (as many small appliances do.)
 
Tulex. I forget to mention; Make sure that any fridges/freezers are not on circuits protected by arc fault breakers.
If possible, Likewise for GFCI IMO, or combo GFCI/AFCI.

(err, I have my garage freezer on a shared GFCI…. Out of laziness. Haven’t lose meat for 4 years 🤣. I should put an alarm on it)
 
My inspector dinged my for using a 15A circuit for the kitchen fridge even though it was a single outlet...."all circuits in a kitchen have to be 20A."
I didn't get into a conversation about dedicated circuits because he was not bothered by it being a regular breaker.
Same for mini-split and well pump, no leak/arc protection required. Your AHJ may have other idea's though.
So gauge is a problem but protection is not :unsure:
 
The in-law suite above my shop has a galley kitchen. Inspector insisted on 2 circuits despite it only having 2 outlets. He started teasing me about that technically all outlets in the kitchen require ground fault, even the dedicated outlet for the fridge that's behind the fridge. Then he also said it had to be "accessible" so that wasn't really necessary.

I did end up putting in 2 additional outlets so that there were 2 on each circuit, even though that made them only 18" apart.
 
I tend to put in a square box and two dual outlets, so that's 2 circuits. Microwave, toaster, coffee maker - like each on its own.

Just my kitchen I put in 2 such pairs over the counter, a pair under the sink (one switched, two switches in a square box for lights + possible Insinkerator), a pair in cabinet over the range for vent hood, a pair in cabinet with pull-out trays. Mixer is on a tray, and cellphones get charged there because cats like to chew on the small wires. More outlets on separate circuits in other cabinets and along the wall takes care of separate breaker for each heating appliance.

I thought inaccessible outlet behind fridge didn't require GFCI. My "new" place has ungrounded outlet, GFCI is a good upgrade for that, maybe I should get grounds to such appliance outlets. Lots of upgrades when I get inspired to drill through top or base plate and crawl into attic and basement.
 
I was unaware this was such an issue, and makes me worry about my own home :ROFLMAO:. I have never gotten a nuisance trip, what is the cause of it?

Tulex. I forget to mention; Make sure that any fridges/freezers are not on circuits protected by arc fault breakers.
Mine definitely is, why not have it on there? I even have my Garage freezer on a AFCI breaker and GFCI outlet.
 
My inspector dinged my for using a 15A circuit for the kitchen fridge even though it was a single outlet...."all circuits in a kitchen have to be 20A."
He is correct. 210.52(B)(1) says that the "two or more 20A small appliance branch circuits required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all wall and floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A), all countertop outlets covered by 210.52(C), and receptacle outlets for refrigeration equipment."
So you can have a dedicated circuit for the refrigerator but it must be in addition to the two small appliance branch circuits required for the kitchen area, and it must be 20A. There is an exception for dedicated receptacles to serve specific equipment but it says "In addition to" not "Instead of" so it would not apply to refrigeration equipment.
Personally I think this is silly but I don't write the NEC.

So gauge is a problem but protection is not
210.12 covers arc fault protection for dwelling units and it states "ALL (bold) 120V single phase 15 and 20 ampere branch circuits supplying outlets or devices installed in dwelling unit kitchens, family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, laundry areas, or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by...."(lists acceptable methods of providing arc fault protection).
Notice that it doesn't say bathroom, garage, or outdoor receptacles so it doesn't create any increased need for the GFCI protected receptacles in those locations but it does say kitchens. I can tell you that there are a lot of kitchens even in new houses that are not wired with AFCI protection.
210.8 (A) Requires all receptacles in dwelling units that are in bathrooms, garages and accessory buildings, outdoors, crawl spaces, kitchen COUNTERTOP surfaces, near sinks, in boathouses, near bathtubs or shower stalls, or in laundry areas to be GFCI protected.
Technically, because of the way the code is worded, you are not allowed to put the kitchen refrigeration on its own dedicated circuit AND all of the receps in the kitchen are supposed to be arc fault protected AND the countertop receptacles must also be GFCI protected with a "readily accessible" GFCI device.
So the receptacle behind the refrigerator in the kitchen should be AFCI protected but not GFCI protected and must be 20 amps, while the same refrigerator in the garage should be GFCI protected but not AFCI protected and can be 15 amps. It makes no sense.

Keep in mind that inspectors are often not what you would call an industry professional, and especially in small municipalities where they are likely inspecting multiple different trades there will be a hard limit to their knowledge. Even in cities where they specialize more, there is a better than good chance they have zero industry specific experience before becoming an inspector and they are constantly educating. Code knowledge varies widely amongst even licensed journeyman electricians and inspectors are no different.
And some inspectors go off on personal crusades and power trips. These are the worst and must be handled very carefully.
 
Yeah sometimes you have to pick your battles and fortunately this was before drywall and it was easy to make him happy, so I did.
Another code discussion we had was about dryer hookups, I will be using a heat pump dryer that does not require venting and 240 volt outlet but you still have to supply them for current building code.
 
I was unaware this was such an issue, and makes me worry about my own home :ROFLMAO:. I have never gotten a nuisance trip, what is the cause of it?


Mine definitely is, why not have it on there? I even have my Garage freezer on a AFCI breaker and GFCI outlet.

I think early AFCI were being tripped by brush-type motors.
Maybe new versions have a higher threshold for arc energy.

Meant to detect series arcs (while manipulating wires in a box with wire nuts, immediately prior to bypassing with new Romex coming from AFCI breaker, I heard an arc inside the nut.)

Also should detect parallel arcs when someone drives a nail through the wire to hang a picture on wall.

GFCI, I've had an Insinkerator trip it after some years. Also outdoor circuits that apparently get some moisture or rain some years, haven't tracked down so just reset. I've put GFCI on porch laundry circuits, including 30A 2 pole breaker for dryer.

GFCI outlets, note that some are branded "WR" for wet location, others aren't. May make a difference on how long they last. Materials differences? Conformal coating? I've had a bunch used outdoors fail, while GFCI breakers only died if subjected to a dead short. Maybe WR would have held up.


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I fallow this and really if i see the reactions.
Some have a lot of problems and some not .

So really if i look in to it
That yours safety breakers are in the outlet .
And save the systeem only from of that point .
And than you have the main breaker in a other place.
Its really strange how its setup from my point of view.
We only have one central point that protect the hole systeem .
Only a lost of 25mini amp between the wires and it shutdown.
So we have 2 models .
On systeem protect all the house from the main grid input and some breakers with max amps that you can use .
Or other model are combo unit that is a breaker with beult in a Safety systeem of 25mini amp.
And with that systeem you can do parts of you house so that hole house do not shutdown.

So if a wire is damage by a drill the systeem shutdown against fire .

But again our input from the grid can be 1x40amps 230 volt old house
New house to a new law with ground heat pumps we can go up to 3x25amps on 230 volt.
That we have if thare is a good reason go up to
Wel see picture wat i can order .
 

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