Looking to build small solar system ( I am intrigued by solar...hoping to experiment by using this in home, and as emergency back-up for power loss). Want to know what battery to buy right now to get most “bang for the buck”. I am not afraid to do simple build (thanks to Will’s videos). My problem is that I don’t know what is good or bad. Fortune cells? CALB cells? I currently have 2 100amp solar cells. No other equipment
What battery to buy/ build for newbie
- Thread starter Bvsmith
- Start date
You might want to take a look at https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/minimalist-on-a-budget.html
In that tutorial, he uses a SLA battery which is cheap but heavier than lithium.
In that tutorial, he uses a SLA battery which is cheap but heavier than lithium.
chrisski
Solar Boondocker
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2020
- Messages
- 5,311
Can you confirm 100 amp panels, or is it 100 watt panels?
I'm going to use a "Real" cost of solar as between three to five times what you paid for your panels.
I decided on FLA acid batteries for what I'm building. THey were 1/4th the cost of lithiums, but in the long run more expensive. By the time this first set of batteries dies, I'll realize my true battery requirements a few years down the road, and if lithium is best, that's when I'll upgrade.
Everybody kills their first batteries. Golf cart batteries are the most affordable pretty decent solar battery. $90 at Sams or Costco - plus battery core.
I've been using lead a long time. Went lithium with new purchase though. I expect them to sit 3-4 years though. Doesn't harm lithium like it does lead.
I've been using lead a long time. Went lithium with new purchase though. I expect them to sit 3-4 years though. Doesn't harm lithium like it does lead.
Steve_S
Offgrid Cabineer, N.E. Ontario, Canada
First: You mention you want to use this as part of a Backup System for power outages.
It would be more realistic to determine how much power you want to have available to run what, before buying battery cells. Get a Plan Together and know what you want to do, then determine what it will take to do that and then figure out what is needed to purchased and THEN start considering the purchases.
There are many good products and Known Good Vendors that a lot of folks here have experience with. So when it comes closer to knowing what you need, then the fun really begins trying to pick the stuff and buy it. (worse is waiting for it to show up, hehe)
It would be more realistic to determine how much power you want to have available to run what, before buying battery cells. Get a Plan Together and know what you want to do, then determine what it will take to do that and then figure out what is needed to purchased and THEN start considering the purchases.
There are many good products and Known Good Vendors that a lot of folks here have experience with. So when it comes closer to knowing what you need, then the fun really begins trying to pick the stuff and buy it. (worse is waiting for it to show up, hehe)
Thank you all. I see there are a lot of questions on this forum, and I appreciate the time you all took to answer. My initial battery question was just to grab enough lithium cells to build one 12 volt battery. when I look at all the options I have no idea what is good or crap. I have no idea what is good price or bad. Was thinking of buying the fortune cells, but they are $150 a piece (shipped), and I don’t know if that is fair, or way too high a price. I just don’t want to make a bad purchase since it all looks the same to me.
I went right to a 24v lifepo4 golf cart battery pack via AliExpress for my first “solar generator” system. It was costly up-front compared to SLA and standard lithium, but it should last over a decade and longer if I baby it. If you buy a pre-made pack, many already have their own [cheap; not configurable] BMS installed. I don’t plan to push my system to its limit often, so that compromise was fine for my portable unit.
I too am a beginner, I believe Lithium battery is better than going for a lead battery. But as said earlier, almost everyone kills their first batteries, so is it better to purchase the lead battery over lithium initially as it will be more cost effective?
No that's not true. At least from what I have read on this forum and I probably have read every single thread for LifePO4 DIY battery builds. The opposite is true....very few have killed their first batteries. Why is that? Because most everyone follows the instructions and suggestions given on this forum. As long as you do that you will be fine. Also there needs to be a distinction made between Lithium-Ion cells and LiFePO4 cells, the latter being much safer and having a much better cycle life.
Steve_S
Offgrid Cabineer, N.E. Ontario, Canada
Coming to conclusions based on assumptions = not good.
This is generally true for LEAD ACID Batteries because folks abuse them, do not water them, over/under charge them, or let them discharge & sit (Really Bad). Mostly the watering part, THAT has to be the biggest fail for 80% of dead Lead.
LFP is Maintenance-free and the BMS will prevent the above Over/Under charge situations and have Battery Protection for temps as well. Even if the SCC & Inverter are misprogrammed, the BMS should be good enough to be failsafe against bad settings. You can still kill it but you have to work at it to do so.
There are many things that Historically apply to Lead Batteries, they DO NOT APPLY to Lithium or other chemistries.
Cool, so I can learn a new skill and build something, or play it safe and buy lead acid. I’m sure I need at least one battery so I will start with that. I feel safer about using LFP after reading the responses, and I plan on using all of the input on diysoarforum.com to hopefully not ruin my first battery. are fortune cells still a good route at $125 a cell?
Steve_S
Offgrid Cabineer, N.E. Ontario, Canada
The Care & Feeding of your (Expensive) Lead-Acid Batteries
by Rob Beckers of Solacity Inc.
For the LFP Crowd
Finding Happiness with Lithium-Ion Batteries
by Rob Beckers of Solacity Inc.
Excellent Deals on LFP from one of our Known Good Vendors "LUYUAN Tech" with Amy Wan.
Special Note: There is presently a Special Deal but Sept.01 another deal pops up.
105AH = 33.99 - 39.95,
202AH = $66.69 - $69.25
280AH = $78.84 - $80.36 * Most Popular cells being bought.
All prices indicated at USD Bundles can also include delivery - pay attention to the details.
szluyuan.en.alibaba.com
by Rob Beckers of Solacity Inc.
For the LFP Crowd
Finding Happiness with Lithium-Ion Batteries
by Rob Beckers of Solacity Inc.
Excellent Deals on LFP from one of our Known Good Vendors "LUYUAN Tech" with Amy Wan.
Special Note: There is presently a Special Deal but Sept.01 another deal pops up.
105AH = 33.99 - 39.95,
202AH = $66.69 - $69.25
280AH = $78.84 - $80.36 * Most Popular cells being bought.
All prices indicated at USD Bundles can also include delivery - pay attention to the details.
Grade A lifepo4 battery,Non-grade A lifepo4 battery,Battery Pack direct from CN
Grade A lifepo4 battery,Non-grade A lifepo4 battery,Battery Pack Products and 0 more Products from Shenzhen Luyuan Technology Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com
szluyuan.en.alibaba.com
My batteries have just been ordered and this will be my first build. I am a little nervous about it but I have enough knowledge to do it thanks to this forum and the members that have shared a wealth of knowledge and have first hand experience. I am taking notes...lol.
While Fortune cells have their advantage, IMO they are over priced. But great for a beginner. So are CALB cells. I decided to go with 8 of the 280 amp EVE cells offered in the group buy. However the supplier Steve posted above is very good. Ask the supplier for matched batteries. This means the internal resistance is less than the battery spec sheet and the milliohm readings are close to each other. Lots of info posted about that too. I believe the supplier Steve is suggesting does that but ask them, or any other supplier and from what I have seen they will comply. By reading spec sheets for the cells, and any other components of the system one can learn a lot.
My reason for getting into this is to learn and it's time for a new project. I am going to build a UPS using an inverter/charger. It's way more power than I need but it will last a long time.
I think that qualifies you as a rookie. A confident rookie to be sure.
Steve_S
Offgrid Cabineer, N.E. Ontario, Canada
Hang on a second there please.
The EVE 280 and other similar cells selling for the lower prices such as $80 per 280 cell are Voltage Matched, within "factory specs" for IR at test voltages but these are not fully "matched" up cells. That is a rather more involved process which cycles the individual cells through charge/discharge while validating the various IR readings through the cycles, at which point cells are sorted/categorised by their values and those that fall outside of spec (over or under) hit reject. The Simplified Version.
These vendors selling the cells at these prices are selling "production matched" cells which fall within the broader batch specs for IR and more variance in higher/lower cell capacity. IE, a 280AH cell may actually be 290AH while another may only be 275AH when run through tests. This has been reported in threads here many times when people have tested cells deeply.
Now higher end Brands like Calb, Sinopoly, Winston and the like, will cost more right off the top due to higher spec & tolerances, also the much higher pricing also properly matched IR & Voltage cells. So compare CALB & Winston 200AH cell costs to the ones we can use with a bit more variance but still quite fine to use.
The EVE 280 and other similar cells selling for the lower prices such as $80 per 280 cell are Voltage Matched, within "factory specs" for IR at test voltages but these are not fully "matched" up cells. That is a rather more involved process which cycles the individual cells through charge/discharge while validating the various IR readings through the cycles, at which point cells are sorted/categorised by their values and those that fall outside of spec (over or under) hit reject. The Simplified Version.
These vendors selling the cells at these prices are selling "production matched" cells which fall within the broader batch specs for IR and more variance in higher/lower cell capacity. IE, a 280AH cell may actually be 290AH while another may only be 275AH when run through tests. This has been reported in threads here many times when people have tested cells deeply.
Now higher end Brands like Calb, Sinopoly, Winston and the like, will cost more right off the top due to higher spec & tolerances, also the much higher pricing also properly matched IR & Voltage cells. So compare CALB & Winston 200AH cell costs to the ones we can use with a bit more variance but still quite fine to use.
Thanks for your encouragement. I have become fairly knowledgeable over the years with electricity and electronics. Started back when I was in high school back in the late 60's early 70's. During the late 70's I received two degrees relating to trouble shooting computers and related electro-mechanical hardware. I worked in the field for a number of years working on optical scanners. Most of the troubleshooting involved electro-mechanical stuff. Those things were huge back then. And so were the oscilloscopes I had to lug around. I admit I was not very good troubleshooting down to the board component level even though I had all the schematics for everything, but I was good at everything else. No matter how well those machines were maintained, and they required a lot of maintenance, they did break down. Many relays, solenoids, belts...things like that. That's where my confidence comes from. I have a fairly good knowledge of electricity and have been playing with all types of batteries over the years but on a much smaller scale than this build.
I am very confident enough to proceed, and knowledgeable enough to proceed as well. I would appreciate any tips you might have that will prevent others and myself from killing our batteries. If you have anything to offer that would be helpful I am all ears.
Thanks for the explanation. I got a little paranoid about the IR from my experience with the Lishen cells. Fortunately I was able to nip that in the bud before the cells were sent. From what I have read around here the IR is closely matched on the 280 EVE cells. Not so sure about the other stuff out there. Having said that I would still ask for matched cells no matter who I was ordering from.
