Valence XP Super Thread

I have a current setup in an electric car of 7 U27-12XP is serie, managed by an U-BMS LV. I have 2 cars but some batteries are sho, at least one with a 0V cell and the 6 others were exhibiting a low voltage of 2,8V (battery, not cell). Even if the took a charge, I'm short of one battery to test further.
I'm waiting for a second car to arrive, with maybe more luck with batteries...
In any case, even if I can salvage one full working set of batteries, I will be short for the second car.
Finding second hand batteries in France seems difficult, and considering the very low voltage of the 6 other, I'm afraid they will not last very long.

I'm considering keeping Valence technology (U-BMS + each battery BMS) but to use instead 280 Ah LFP cells, connected in series (28). I have just enough room in the battery compartment for such installation.
The choice to keep Valence system is due to the CANBUS connection of car charger, speed controller and VMU...

I'm questionning myself if the U-BMS may raise an error if suddenly all batteries increased from 138 Ah to 280Ah... Is the U-BMS only managing throught he voltage of each cell or is it also counting the in and out Ah through the internal shunt of each battery?
What are your thought on this "upgrade"?

Other option is to stick with near 138 Ah cells, so 152 are the best candidates...but if I can increase almost by 2 the range of the car, I would take it! It would also limit cells aging bi dividing C discharge by 2...

Thanks in advance for your inputs!

AZDelivery FTDI Adapter FT232RL USB naar TTL Serial voor 3.3V en 5V met eBook​

is this the right one ? Im not sure about the ft232rl chip

https://www.amazon.nl/AZDelivery-Ad...TJ1FDNB6WNRN&refRID=PDNT4943TJ1FDNB6WNRN&th=1


another option is my local electronics shop sells them for 40 euro and 50 euro with cable...
i maybe needing three..
i cant find the right one mentioned in this topic, in the netherlands..

JerryM said:

Hey Manny....I'm still making my way through this thread so I'm not sure if anyone else has responded to you re your battery wiring. You will achieve better battery performance and balancing by moving your feeder cables to opposite ends of your battery bank.....i.e. Positive from top right battery, Negative from lower left battery. Even better would be to use separate cables for each battery and run them to a common bus.....be sure to keep all cables the same size and length and use a little dielectric grease on the connections to ensure a good low-resistance connection. You may find this link useful: http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html

Click to expand...

Thanks, I thought I posted my setup early in this thread but maybe not. Yes, I wired to bus bars.

JAKEPBROWN said:

Hey there,

I was just wondering if you had messed with this any more? I just found out that I ran into the same issue you have... Cell 4 seemed to have just up-n-died Just wondering if you had been able to recover it.

Click to expand...

Nope. Cell #2 is dead as a doornail.

I cracked open the case and found water intrusion too (I was keeping this on the hush since I wanted to see what the person who sold me these batteries would say about replacing it first) -- these things are supposed to be IP56 (basically waterproof to a high pressure hose) so something was definitely wrong with mine. I legitimately charged it once and stored it in a cellar for 4 months -- when I came back the battery was at like 3.5V with no light flashing. I charged it at .5A and it never went green. That's when I decided to crack it open...




When I finally plugged it into the computer -- I noticed this battery had 24 on the "Reset Cnt" -- which I've determined only occurs when the battery voltage gets so low that the PCBA turns off - I think sub-5V. Given that the sticker was still sealed -- this means this battery had some pretty serious undervoltage events in its life -- no doubt due to the moisture intrusion I bet.

I put together a very compelling case to Thunderstruck and they basically told me to shove it. They said I can have a new one at their cost if they ever get more in -- that's not much of a consolation considering the price tag + shipping. I don't think they sold me a faulty battery on purpose -- and I can't hate them for sticking to their "no warranty" policy -- nor the fact that a lot can happen over four months -- but I know in my heart of hearts it isn't my fault this battery is toast and I didn't appreciate how they basically alleviated themselves of any blame for this situation given what I discovered.

Not to say don't work with them -- but I'm not a happy customer so I thought I'd share my story.

forget my last post.
i got a usb to rs485 converter pen drive from my local electronics shack for 7,45 euro
with ch340 chip. so found out that the ftdi chip is more expensive here in the netherlands.
YEAAH its working

I found out that lithiumwerks has a dutch CEO, so did some googeling...(he wants to make a big university campus here)
for some background info, product pdf and pics. you can browse these directories.

Hi all, I'm trying to work out what the capacity of my 2 u27-12xp batteries is. I was hoping someone might be able to check my method for testing them. I have the 2 modules wired in parallel, and am testing them by running a space heater off of a renogy 2000w inverter/charger. I am measuring the current using a victron BMV 712. I have the space heater set on low which pulls about 775 watts as measured by the shunt. My method for assuming that the SOC is at 100% is basically just waiting for the charger to decide to stop charging. Once the charger has stopped its charging cycle, I check the cell voltage using a thunderstruck vc1. The highest resting voltage I've seen so far is about 3.4v/cell. I begin the test there and end it when I hit 3v/cell. When the test is over (which I must be doing wrong) the BMV reads that 182 amps have been used. Thats 65% of the capacity I should be getting! I realize these are used batteries, and probably won't deliver the full 138ah/module anymore, but that seems super low! Can anyone show me where I've gone wrong/how you should do a proper capacity test? Is my charger not charging them all the way up? The ebay seller says they should have >90% of life span on them still.

mannytheseacow said:

Try a charger like this so you can precisely control volts and amps.

Each cell Negative (-) uses the adjacent cell's positive (+). In the photo below, black wire/arrow is cell 1 (-), blue wire/arrow is cell 1 (+) AND cell 2 (-).
Yellow wire/arrow is cell 3 (+) AND cell 4 (-). Brown wire/arrow is cell 4 (+).

EXAMPLE: If you want to bring up cell #4, put your power supply positive (+) to the brown wire and your power supply negative (-) to the yellow wire. Keep the battery connected to the valence software to monitor the cell voltages while you are charging.

Let's say your problem cell #4 is 3.3v and all your others are 3.5v - - - > set your power supply connected to cell #4 to 3.5v, maybe 1/4 amp, and monitor from there. Once the cells all come together the battery SOC shown in the valence software will jump to 100%. Note- it may take hours and hours for the low cell to come up to reach the others.

View attachment 14660

Click to expand...

I have a question using the picture above. I have a progressive dynamics 9160AL charger that puts out 14.6 volts. I put one of my Valence u27-xp batteries on and began charging, the next day I found the battery completely drained below 1.5 volts. The light flashes green red and then blink red. I disconnected and let it sit. I am trying to trickle with .75 amp charger. I was impatient and wondering if I could get some answers by opening the side panel. On cell one: I get .001v cell two: .35v cell three .56v cell four: .65v. (I used the procedure from the picture above to get those voltages) I decided to check the cells for dead short, I switched my meter to continuity and got a beep on cell one. when I went to cell two, the green light began flashing, but no beep on any of the following cells. Any Ideas? do I have a short on cell one?

kmh5147 said:

To the others out there who would like to connect to the BMS through CAN, purchase the following canbus adapter. It works out of the box with the valence canbus software.

CANUSB (USB to CAN converter)

USB to CAN converter

canusbshop.com

Click to expand...

Hi!
Have you try any other adaptors, such as this one: https://www.amazon.fr/Adaptateur-co...WG2Q75SN6JD&psc=1&refRID=HQ3CFNH1PWG2Q75SN6JD
Do you think it could work?

Yesterday eve i took the dog for a late night walk, when i came back i noticed the two u24 12xp modules blinking green with 5 sec interval.
they were totaly disconnected. yess it was late but ...?? when i noticed it they did it about 30 sec or so.

What is the "WH Dschg" number in the software? Is that the ammount of Wh ever pushed through the battery in it's life?

How are people all happy over low cycle count numbers when the WH Dschg number is crazy high?

Would you divide the total WH Dschg number by the battery's rated kw/h for a real cycle count?

and no these batteries are not connected to each other(yet)

CamperDude said:

What is the "WH Dschg" number in the software? Is that the ammount of Wh ever pushed through the battery in it's life?

How are people all happy over low cycle count numbers when the WH Dschg number is crazy high?

Would you divide the total WH Dschg number by the battery's rated kw/h for a real cycle count?

and no these batteries are not connected to each other(yet)

Click to expand...

Yes your interpretation of the wh discharge is correct.

The cycle count only gets triggered when it's a complete cycle.

Partial cycles degrade to a much less degree therefore doesn't trigger the cycle count.

There's normally a difference of 10x. So 60 on the cycle count but shows enough power on the wh counter to total 600 cycles.

ericgrand said:

I have a current setup in an electric car of 7 U27-12XP is serie, managed by an U-BMS LV. I have 2 cars but some batteries are sho, at least one with a 0V cell and the 6 others were exhibiting a low voltage of 2,8V (battery, not cell). Even if the took a charge, I'm short of one battery to test further.
I'm waiting for a second car to arrive, with maybe more luck with batteries...
In any case, even if I can salvage one full working set of batteries, I will be short for the second car.
Finding second hand batteries in France seems difficult, and considering the very low voltage of the 6 other, I'm afraid they will not last very long.

I'm considering keeping Valence technology (U-BMS + each battery BMS) but to use instead 280 Ah LFP cells, connected in series (28). I have just enough room in the battery compartment for such installation.
The choice to keep Valence system is due to the CANBUS connection of car charger, speed controller and VMU...

I'm questionning myself if the U-BMS may raise an error if suddenly all batteries increased from 138 Ah to 280Ah... Is the U-BMS only managing throught he voltage of each cell or is it also counting the in and out Ah through the internal shunt of each battery?
What are your thought on this "upgrade"?

Other option is to stick with near 138 Ah cells, so 152 are the best candidates...but if I can increase almost by 2 the range of the car, I would take it! It would also limit cells aging bi dividing C discharge by 2...

Thanks in advance for your inputs!

Click to expand...

The BMS won't throw any errors. The state of charge will jump to a hundred percent when you fully charge the battery. most of the internal state of charge meters aren't even accurate anyway.
I've got batteries that claim to be discharging when there's nothing hooked up. Eventually they show a super-low state of charge then as they showed that low state-of-charge I can do a capacity test and it turns out they were still full.

during the capacity test the state of charge goes to zero but the voltage is fine. the BMS does not turn off the contactors until the battery is truly dead based off of cell voltage. The only flag the BMS will communicate is low or imbalanced state of charge. But it simply will not act upon that.

Three6ty said:

New to the Site but have been lurking for a while.
Im setting up a solar /battery system for my new Promaster van.
I have a 305w Solar panel
2 of the XP U27-12XP batteries
Kisae DMT 1250 DC to DC charger Controller - http://www.kisaepower.com/products/battery-chargers/model-dmt-1250/
* Allows me to charge from alternator as well.
Kisae ABSO 200Watt Inverter/ Charger

I like many of you was quick to buy these batteries at a good deal, and never knew the trouble of cell balancing, over charging and over heating. I figured that the Charge controller could take car of that.
Questions to the pros out there.

If I decide to run only one of the Valence Batteries? Do I need to worry about cell balancing and stimulating the Battery's BMS? My Kisae Charge controller has multiple user settings to set limits on charging and discharge.
Secondly If I decide to run both batteries in Parallel, keeping the system at 12V. What do I really need to worry about with these batteries?
Both have less than 400 charge cycles and are balanced at 13.3 V right now.

All of this Computer hook up and external BMS back and forth is confusing me more than I thought it would.

Bottom line.
If I just hook these up in Parallel with the equipment I have, without balancing the cells every month ( pain in the ass IMO), am I just going to limit some of my output, shorten the battery life, etc. Or would there be something more serious that could happen?
Same questions if I just run a single battery instead?

If I do need a Valence BMS, Can i just hook it up and forget about it and let it do its job or is it something I have to constantly monitor.
I am beginning to think it is more trouble than its worth to use these batteries

Thanks in advance.

Click to expand...

Yes you'll need to occasionally balance the battery.

Travis said:

Yes your interpretation of the wh discharge is correct.

The cycle count only gets triggered when it's a complete cycle.

Partial cycles degrade to a much less degree therefore doesn't trigger the cycle count.

There's normally a difference of 10x. So 60 on the cycle count but shows enough power on the wh counter to total 600 cycles.

Click to expand...

thanks!

Travis said:

The BMS won't throw any errors. The state of charge will jump to a hundred percent when you fully charge the battery. most of the internal state of charge meters aren't even accurate anyway.
I've got batteries that claim to be discharging when there's nothing hooked up. Eventually they show a super-low state of charge then as they showed that low state-of-charge I can do a capacity test and it turns out they were still full.

during the capacity test the state of charge goes to zero but the voltage is fine. the BMS does not turn off the contactors until the battery is truly dead based off of cell voltage. The only flag the BMS will communicate is low or imbalanced state of charge. But it simply will not act upon that.

Click to expand...

Thanks Travis!
This is an option I will consider at a later stage as finally, over the 14 batteries I have, 1 is dead (one cell at zero with leaking cells...), 6 were recovered from 2,8V to fully charge and give average 139 Ah while being discharge at C/10, and the seven others seems to work as expected!
So I'm short of 1 battery to get both car running. Chasing one in France, but seller is expensive as it is 6 years old but new battery, stored at 13.2V...Price is on the high side at around 500€...
I may bite the bullet anyway as it is a shame to get this car stuck for 1 battery!

Hi All,
I have a solar setup with 20x Valence U27-XP rev1 batteries, in 5 series of 4 12V batteries, then connected in parallel - to get 48V nominal, and have the ability to disconnect either of the 5 48v strings if there is an issue with battery or cell.
I had the full set from a Smith electric van, and I still have the original HV BMS which isn't connected at the moment. My solar setup is month old so hasn't seen much use yet.
I read this thread start to end, and the other threads on the alternative BMS solutions, eventually realizing my best option is to try and make the factory BMS work. What I did understand is that I need DC-DC converter to get the 100V feed to the BMS, and I will be looking for such converter locally before ordering chinese stuff. What I couldn't get is how to reconfigure the BMS for my setup ?
When I got the full kit a while ago (2-3 years) I didn't have high hopes to make it work properly with the built-in management, and I am thrilled to see how much this community has achieved in short time
I have bought couple of MAX485 boards and I have arduino kits available, so I will try to make 1st step and put together the arduino BMS to at least get monitoring and balancing on cell level working, until I get (with your help I hope) the factory BMS working.
I have 2 contactors that came with the battery pack, I will have to find 3 more that I can control - I saw recommendation for a particular type with PWM control which has lower consumption, are there any additional considerations for it?

Thanks everyone!

well i finally installed this trunderstruck BMS VC1 in my boat. I got it all hooked up on a piece of starboard got all the relays in a water proof container. Everything working as plan charger working, trolling motor working. Then I installed that board to the boat and finish hooking up my heating pads to keep batteries warm. then all sudden nothing is working. the DC 20 amp relay for my charger is not working right. I have to trip and reset the 60 amp circuit breaker for the trolling motor to come on. too much complex of electrical system. I am going to return this BMS and spend some extra money to buy the drop in batteries and finish this project. 2 months (just several days) is way too long and not getting to what it needs to be done.

I just received the Thunderstruck VC1 BMS. I have wired my entire van, but, for some reason, wiring the relay is not making sense to me. I use a Renogy DCC50, which might be a complicating factor. Can anyone post some photos of how they wired the VC1 and its relay?

Three6ty said:

New to the Site but have been lurking for a while.
Im setting up a solar /battery system for my new Promaster van.
I have a 305w Solar panel
2 of the XP U27-12XP batteries
Kisae DMT 1250 DC to DC charger Controller - http://www.kisaepower.com/products/battery-chargers/model-dmt-1250/
* Allows me to charge from alternator as well.
Kisae ABSO 200Watt Inverter/ Charger

I like many of you was quick to buy these batteries at a good deal, and never knew the trouble of cell balancing, over charging and over heating. I figured that the Charge controller could take car of that.
Questions to the pros out there.

If I decide to run only one of the Valence Batteries? Do I need to worry about cell balancing and stimulating the Battery's BMS? My Kisae Charge controller has multiple user settings to set limits on charging and discharge.
Secondly If I decide to run both batteries in Parallel, keeping the system at 12V. What do I really need to worry about with these batteries?
Both have less than 400 charge cycles and are balanced at 13.3 V right now.

All of this Computer hook up and external BMS back and forth is confusing me more than I thought it would.

Bottom line.
If I just hook these up in Parallel with the equipment I have, without balancing the cells every month ( pain in the ass IMO), am I just going to limit some of my output, shorten the battery life, etc. Or would there be something more serious that could happen?
Same questions if I just run a single battery instead?

If I do need a Valence BMS, Can i just hook it up and forget about it and let it do its job or is it something I have to constantly monitor.
I am beginning to think it is more trouble than its worth to use these batteries

Thanks in advance.

Click to expand...

Kinda in the same boat, honestly wish I went with battle born, but I’ve got my system set up and running now. 400w solar/Victron MPPT/everything is fused and oversized wire/and BMV-712 monitor. Will probably never discharge these batteries past 50% and have the absorption at 14.2 max voltage so far they have gotten in FL sun is 14.35.

Came back on the forum to find out if I can hook my computer to both batteries at once or if I need to do them separately? But Also very interested in knowing if not using a BMS and not balancing every month if that means less life of the battery or if that is dangerous as in them heating up and catching fire/exploding?

I've seen a battery at 18 volts and it didn't heat up. Yes you can hook both to the computer at the same time via rs485 and they'll both balance but you can only see one battery at a time without the BMS and canbus.

If an out-of-balance battery reaches full without having the balance active it will damage a cell very quickly.
A battery can reach full and damage can happen anywhere between 13.6 and 14.6 volts. The more imbalanced the battery the lower the voltage the damage will occur at. Overtime the voltage at which damage occurs could even drop below 13.6. A periodic balance will prevent this from happening and is a must.
. And if it's severely out of balance even with balancing active it will damage a cell unless you have the BMS present to disconnect the bank. Some go out of balance more quickly than others it all depends on the health of the cells.

So I guess my main points are you should balance at least once a month whether you use the batteries much or not. And having a BMS assures no damage happens. As cell health changes surprises will come up even if you think you know your battery well something will always get you without the BMS.

Thanks Travis you answered exactly what I needed to know. When balancing the 2 batteries together would I connect the 2 batteries together via communication cables and then one to my computer?

Yes

nrsmith83 said:

I just received the Thunderstruck VC1 BMS. I have wired my entire van, but, for some reason, wiring the relay is not making sense to me. I use a Renogy DCC50, which might be a complicating factor. Can anyone post some photos of how they wired the VC1 and its relay?

Click to expand...

Did you check the user manual that came with the VC1 BMS. It has a wiring diagram.

Ed Solar said:

Did you check the user manual that came with the VC1 BMS. It has a wiring diagram.

Click to expand...

Yes, I have looked at it very closely. I have spoken with Thunderstruck as well. They wanted me to have the relay cut off connected at the controller positive outlet. This would fry my DCC50S when the relay opens the circuit because the panel and alternator would be disconnected from the battery. I am at a loss on how to make this thing work without such damage. I'm curious how others have done it.