Inverter / washing machine issue

Ryang · Jan 4, 2021

Hi there

move just finished setting up a new lithium bank for our caravan. Everything was working well until I went to use the washing machine.

basic setup
8s 280eve cells
24v 3000w easun inverter
Etc

now this is where it’s interesting. I’ve been running the washing machine off the generator for a year. The genie is a Westinghouse i2400. It’s pushes out 240v @ 50hz

the inverter, 3000w pushes 230v @ 50hz.

the washing machine runs fine on generator, not in inverter. I though it may be a sine wave issue but even then I don’t know how to fix it. The washing machine is a domestic wmd1050

anyone have any ideas?

thanks

Stupid Monkey · Jan 4, 2021

That's the exact opposite of me, my washing machine errors on generator (dont think it responds fast enough) but will run off the inverter no problem.

Genny : Clark 2600w
Inverter : Giandel 3000/6000
Washer : Candy 4Kg

Ryang · Jan 4, 2021

george65 said:
Is the inverter a Cheap Modified Sine wave or a proper Pure sine wave?

If it's a modified, that is probably it. If it's pure you may be getting some voltage drop. washer shouldn't pull that much power but if your wiring on the DC side is a bit thin, could cause the problem.

Repair tech about 18 months ago told me the electronics in new machines are pretty voltage sensitive, Ironically to over voltage in particular. He noticed my solar panels and said watch they don't push the voltage up too high. Could be the same with seeing lower volts than they want too.

My voltage can get high with the panels but so far no probs. Still have 3.5 years on the extended warranty on the machine so if it doesn't fall over by then, I think it will be pretty safe.

They are a pure sin wave.

The voltage on the generator is 241 and the sine is 51hz.

that seems to run it.

I dont think I can change the output of the inverter from 230 to 240. I can up the hz to 60.

Am I likely to break anything if I change the hertz to 60 to test? Does anyone know if I can up the voltage somehow? Remember easing and mpp are the same units. So maybe some mpp users will Know?

HaldorEE · Jan 4, 2021

Is this your inverter?

551.49US $ |Easun Power Mppt Solar Inverter 3000w 24v 220v 60a Mppt Off Grid Inverter 3kva Power Inverter Solar Charger 60a Battery Charger - Inverters & Converters - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

The Aliexpress price is $380. This is not very confidence building for a 3000W inverter that is also supposed to include a 60A MPPT solar charger AND a 60A shore power charger.

Cheap inverters are notorious for being unable to handle the surge demands of starting electric motors. Hate to say it, but it is pretty hard to take those specs seriously, considering what that costs.

They even make a point of proudly announcing it is a high frequency inverter. This is not a positive attribute.

Transformerless, light weight design

I would think you need to look at something around $700 before you are going to get anything real. And that probably won't include the solar MPPT.

MisterSandals · Jan 4, 2021

Ryang said:
the washing machine runs fine on generator, not in inverter.

Your problem pretty much described as "not running fine" needs a little more info to help diagnose this. The suggestions and comments above are good but I am wondering what exactly "not running fine" entails?

Does the inverter fault with flashing lights, alarms blaring and maybe a message on the display?
Does the washing machine try to run but gets stuck or turns off or ??

My line of thought is with HaldorEE that the surge demand is not being met. There should be some message on the inverter if this is the case. If you happen to have a digital meter that reads surge current, that would provide a definitive answer to surge current being the issue.

Trukinbear · Jan 4, 2021

My SI6048 Sunny Island doesn't even show that it notices the washer running, but none of my generators are exactly 'happy' with the pulsating load of my direct drive washer. It runs the washer just fine, but it makes the generator blow smoke rings and sound like a teenager in the driveway revving his engine up and down for hours... Give me a good old washer from days gone by - we're so overloaded with water here we don't need something stingy with water, and watching the electrical load of a direct drive washer on my meter looks really nuts - no way that is good for my Inverter, much less my generator(s).

Ryang · Jan 4, 2021

Hi all

I don’t think it’s a load issue. I can run an ibis air command off it which drains 5800w on startup no problem. The washing machine isn’t anywhere near this.

The washing machine powers on, cycle starts, but there is a clicking on a relay and the drum doesn’t turn. (On inverter).

I don’t believe its Load related Either as the generator still runs on eco mode. It’s not jumping into insanely high revving mode. I think it’s more likely sin wave or voltage. However, it’s runs off mains which should be 230v (not on power can’t check but am in Australia).

And yes thats The inverter, cheap, Chinese, but apart from this little issue it’s actually works very well. (Apart from high standby load). A lot of forums I am reading suggest the victron won’t run this dometic wdm1050 either.

Was hoping others had run into this problem as it’s such a common washing machine.

FYI - the inverter doesnt error its happily plodding along.

Ryang · Jan 4, 2021

It does say

Design with ac input /output 220-240vac single phase only. So I feel like it may be possible to adjust the voltage to 240? Actually perhaps not.

HaldorEE · Jan 4, 2021

george65 said:
When I had to replace my 20 Yo washer on the nameplate, I asked the repair guy what he recommended. He said as you probably don't want to spend $5-6L on a speed queen or maytag industrial washer, the best one is what you have. He said the new ones have the exact same guts as this one, just now they use electronic timers instead of mechanical. He said the electronic is no where near as reliable and I'd be amazed if it lasted half as long as this one but at least the guts of the things are good.

Bought one and sure enough, the gearbox etc are identical. I kept all the timers from the old one thinking maybe, when the electronics go on this one there may be the possibility of replacing them. Then again, might be just as easy to set up an arduino and do it that way.

Never really looked at the power draw as the thing operates but the way the bastard slams the water solenoids shut and caused the pipes to hammer is a real piss off. Put in a damper which helps but every now and then it still slams the pipes like a canon ball hit something. I often just leave a tap run slowly in the bathroom. Seems to take the pressure out the pipes just enough to stop the problem.
We have our own sewage treatment so what goes down the drain is used to water the garden so it's not wasting anything.

My old neighbhour had a bunch of those LG washers some years back. Apparently the motors are great on the things but again, the electronics are rubbish. I pulled a bunch of them apart and substituted things to get them going again but eventually ran out of parts and replacement boards were about 60% the price of a new washer and were NOT warranted. I know she lost one board when the Pump got jammed which takes out the boards because they have no protection. Stupid design but good for selling new machines.

I bought a top loading Speed Queen washer 6 years ago. It has the electromechanical dial that you push/pull and spin. Absolutely flawless. I expect my daughter won't be able to wear it out. This is a commercial grade washing machine.

It did cost me close to $900 US, but it washes clothes a lot faster, and uses old style soap (not HE). Gets the clothes a lot cleaner and doesn't smell like a swamp if I leave the lid closed.

Gone up a bit in price since I bought it. It cost less than the POS front loading Maytag Neptune it replaced.

Speed Queen TC5000WN 26 Inch Top Load Washer with 6 Preset Cycles, Extra Rinse Option, Deep Fill, Stainless Steel Tub and 3.2 cu. ft. Capacity

www.ajmadison.com

Ryang · Jan 4, 2021

I do have a clamp meter. I can check if there is a surge coming through.
No ossilocope thought to check th e wave

Ryang · Jan 4, 2021

Everything is in range at 230v 50hz as well.
I wonder if a small ups would help

Ryang · Jan 5, 2021

Does anyone have any experience with harmonic filters? I think this seems to be the logical issue. The vsd is causing harmonics in the 50hz range.
Really need advanced equipment to know for sure though.

mis there plug in filters that are simple and passive for just 1 device?

boondox · Jan 10, 2021

HaldorEE said:
I bought a top loading Speed Queen washer 6 years ago. It has the electromechanical dial that you push/pull and spin. Absolutely flawless. I expect my daughter won't be able to wear it out. This is a commercial grade washing machine.

It did cost me close to $900 US, but it washes clothes a lot faster, and uses old style soap (not HE). Gets the clothes a lot cleaner and doesn't smell like a swamp if I leave the lid closed.

Gone up a bit in price since I bought it. It cost less than the POS front loading Maytag Neptune it replaced.

Speed Queen TC5000WN 26 Inch Top Load Washer with 6 Preset Cycles, Extra Rinse Option, Deep Fill, Stainless Steel Tub and 3.2 cu. ft. Capacity

Speed Queen TC5000WN 26 Inch Top Load Washer with 6 Preset Cycles, Extra Rinse Option, Deep Fill, Stainless Steel Tub and 3.2 cu. ft. Capacity

www.ajmadison.com

I have the same washer. Love it. And I will be able to keep it running forever. Runs the same on the inverter or the generator. Mind you, both are good quality and have way more capacity than needed.

Ryang · Jan 10, 2021

I do think it’s a load issue to some degree.

the relay clicking on and off is the drum rotator. On Gennie you can hear the Gennie ramp up slightly when it goes, so it must be a small spike. Perhaps inverter is t reacting quick enough to the spike. That’s all I can think off.
Might be in the too hard basket unfortunately

Mark48vMagnum · Aug 1, 2022

I've Had the same problem with my washer. My Inverter is a Magnum Energy MS4448PAE. Washer will fill, start agitating but after 45 seconds to 1 minute it will shut down. No faults on inverter, no tripped breakers, Battery Bank (30,000 kWh LiFepower4 EG4's) fully charged. Turns out it is a low power factor correction (1.0 PFC being perfect- My washer is about 0.40 to 0.50 PFC) Long story short I installed a 50uF 440v run Capacitor in this circuit and all seems to be good now.

Here is what I did to correct the problem...

MountainmanBill · Mar 17, 2023

Schneider electric Context Inverter/Charger SW 4048 True sine wave

Continuous output power (AC)
Maximum- 3800 watts (only when NoloadVD is enabled) ...I don't know what that means.
30 minutes- 4400 watts ...same note as above

Maximum continuous output current: 15.2 amps
Surge power rating (5 seconds) 7000 watts

Inverter peak output current 41 amps

The inverter will allow the wash machine to go through the wash cycle but within a few seconds of starting the spin cycle the washer stops. If I unplug the washer from inverter power and plug it into the grid, then push the start button, it will go through the spin cycle then finish washing my clothes.

I can scarcely believe that an inverter of this quality won't run a wash machine, yet that is the case.

Sometimes when I power on my table saw, the inverter shuts off power to the saw but after a few seconds will start it again and it will come up to full speed and all is well.

Thoughts?

42OhmsPA · Mar 17, 2023

MountainmanBill said:
Schneider electric Context Inverter/Charger SW 4048 True sine wave

Continuous output power (AC)
Maximum- 3800 watts (only when NoloadVD is enabled) ...I don't know what that means.
30 minutes- 4400 watts ...same note as above

Maximum continuous output current: 15.2 amps
Surge power rating (5 seconds) 7000 watts

Inverter peak output current 41 amps

The inverter will allow the wash machine to go through the wash cycle but within a few seconds of starting the spin cycle the washer stops. If I unplug the washer from inverter power and plug it into the grid, then push the start button, it will go through the spin cycle then finish washing my clothes.

I can scarcely believe that an inverter of this quality won't run a wash machine, yet that is the case.

Sometimes when I power on my table saw, the inverter shuts off power to the saw but after a few seconds will start it again and it will come up to full speed and all is well.

Thoughts?

What's your wiring size on the DC side?
15.2A max continuous output current, for what?

MountainmanBill · Mar 17, 2023

4 AWG going into the inverter.
And, beats me. That's what the inverter specs say.

42OhmsPA · Mar 17, 2023

I suspect you could be seeing some voltage drop due to the 4awg and the washer / saw are overloading the inverter because of the 2,700W max output when using 120v.

Schneider Electric Conext SW 4048 3,800 Watts, 48VDC Inverter/Charger for Split-phase 120/240 VAC

The Schneider Electric SW model inverters do NOT support stacking. These inverters are only designed to operate independently. If you need stacking ability, take a look at the XW line of inverters. Please email us or give us a call if you have any questions.

www.solar-electric.com

Hopefully some experts chime in.

pollenface · Mar 17, 2023

My Cnswipower inverter has a built in potentiometer to adjust AC output voltage, whether yours has one, you'd have to pull it apart the find out.

MountainmanBill · Mar 18, 2023

42OhmsPA said:
I suspect you could be seeing some voltage drop due to the 4awg and the washer / saw are overloading the inverter because of the 2,700W max output when using 120v.

Digging into the inverter's installation guide manual I found the following. It recommends using 1 AWG wire for DC cabling, with a note. "IMPORTANT: Using a smaller size cable or longer cable (longer than 10') may cause the inverter to shut down under heavy load". So you may be on to something here. The next trip to the hardware store will find me in the wire department for some AWG 1 wire. I will post my results when I have them. Thanks for the heads-up, 420 dude.

MichaelK · Mar 18, 2023

MountainmanBill said:
4 AWG going into the inverter.
And, beats me. That's what the inverter specs say.

No, it does not. I have the 4024, and I'm using 000, like the recommendation. My 4024 has no problem starting a 1.6hp air compressor.

ncowan · Mar 28, 2023

Ryang said:
Hi there

move just finished setting up a new lithium bank for our caravan. Everything was working well until I went to use the washing machine.

basic setup
8s 280eve cells
24v 3000w easun inverter
Etc

now this is where it’s interesting. I’ve been running the washing machine off the generator for a year. The genie is a Westinghouse i2400. It’s pushes out 240v @ 50hz

the inverter, 3000w pushes 230v @ 50hz.

the washing machine runs fine on generator, not in inverter Candy CBW 49D1E-80 Mount the furniture doo. I though it may be a sine wave issue but even then I don’t know how to fix it. The washing machine is a domestic wmd1050

anyone have any ideas?

thanks

Anyone got any idea why [LG] washing machines with "Inverter technology" continually trip RCD's? LG insist that the fault is not theirs and that the machine I know of should be connected to a non-RCD supply to remedy the problem. Given that most machines are in kitchens, ergo Special Locations this seems to suggest that LG want consumers to deliberately use trailing leads or ask a spark to break the law for them (or have old installations!). Does this happen with other brands of machine with "Inverter technology"? I The one I know of at present lights up the neon on the wall switch for about 10 seconds if you switch the wall switch OFF whilst the machone switch is ON ... not sure if this is related to the tripping, but I don't like it as it suggests to me that if someone pulls the plug and then accidentally touches the pins they could get a jolt.

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