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Cooling flexible panels on a boat hardtop

REN3

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I know boats in depth, no pun intended, but I am new to installing solar. I have two 100 watt flexible solar panels and controller that I want to mount on the carbon fiber T-top of my center console to just keep my two deep cycle batteries topped off. I have read William's book and visited his site a few times. He mentions that flexible panels are subject to degradation from excessive heat and need adequate ventilation. I would obviously like to mount them directly to my T-top, but have been looking for a ventilation solution that is still very low profile. I have decided to use what is called double thin panel 6mm polycarbonate between the two panels and my T-top. These are similar to corrugated polyethelene plastic used for signs, but these are designed for greenhouses and are clear. My panels are 26" wide and 36" long. The interior channels in my polycarbonate cooling spacers run the 36" length of my solar panels for obvious reasons (correct airflow). I am in Colorado but will be in Florida hopefully later this year. I am looking forward to seeing how my cooling solution works out. I would appreciate any advice or experience keeping flex panels ventilated. Thanks. Bob.

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It sounds like you've done your homework and know the limitations. Even with cooling, the lifespan of the flexible panels is likely to be just a few years. I'm going to point you to a YouTuber who has documented his experience with using flex panels with coroplast underneith along with his experiences mounting them on his RV roof through different methods over time. While he is a landlubber, I think you might be interested in his experience. Here is his latest flex panel video: RV with Tito DIY. If you look back through the videos on his channel you can also see his earlier videos on using flex panels. Good luck!
 
Thank you. I watched his video and noted some differences in design criteria. I am trying to create airflow through the polycarbonate panels to aid in cooling the solar panels, and I want minimum height. In the video the polycarbonate is just an insulative layer which is good, but creating airflow through the panel seems to me to be measurably more efficient at least in theory. Also with all the hardware that he added, the flexible panel looks as bulky as a rigid panel in it's aluminum frame which is a look that I want to avoid. I need to attach the two layer panels such that they withstand towing speed on the highway. Speed on the water will be much lower. Unlike an RV, my boat has storage covers when not in use which will hopefully extend the life of the panels to actually make the project worth doing.
 
I need to attach the two layer panels such that they withstand towing speed on the highway.
I personally would have a hard time doing this to what sounds like a beautiful carbon fiber T-top. What are your plans for "mounting"?

Is this roughly what you have?
Screen Shot 2021-04-04 at 7.25.40 AM.png
 
It's only two panels so even if you replace them every 3-5 years it's hardly a huge financial burden. It might be the LEAST you spend just maintaining a boat :LOL: My only recommendation is to come up with something that makes it relatively easy to perform maintenance on your PVs. Post pics when you're done!
 
Here is the boat and a closeup of the 6' X 9' carbon T-top. It's not the expense of replacing the panels, it's just that I do not want to have to use fasteners. Looking for a low profile. Just my style. The T-top is finished red.
 

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A layer of Coroplast under a flexible panel isn't close to the height of most rigid panels. There are various thicknesses of Coroplast. I mostly use 3/8" for my projects.

Eternabond on the long sides of the panels/Coroplast should do the job. But if you ever take it off, it's going to be a PITA to clean the Eternabond off the carbon fiber.
 
Have you looked at the new GICS panels Will recently did a YT video on?

See here:


Should have a much longer lifespan and would be well worth the upgrade cost to avoid remounting cheaper flex panels IMHO.
 
I personally would have a hard time doing this to what sounds like a beautiful carbon fiber T-top.
If he likes his carbon fiber, he's definitely on the right track - There are dozens of documented cases where flexible panels glued directly to the roof of motor homes have permanently damaged the roof from the heat they generated. Winnebago sold some units brand new with flex panels glued to roofs and ended up paying to have the roofs repaired. If it was mine, I would never opt for flex panels, but since he's bought them, finding some way to mount them up off the carbon fiber so some air can blow thru the space below them is for sure the best way to go

Don
 
I will definitely look at the video. To the poster about Coroplast, I agree that it is not that thick, but the video of shows what I would describe as rather bulky framing and attachment channels around it. If you view the video you will see what I mean. It is not a bad solution for a RV roof.
 
It sounds like you've done your homework and know the limitations. Even with cooling, the lifespan of the flexible panels is likely to be just a few years. I'm going to point you to a YouTuber who has documented his experience with using flex panels with coroplast underneith along with his experiences mounting them on his RV roof through different methods over time. While he is a landlubber, I think you might be interested in his experience. Here is his latest flex panel video: RV with Tito DIY. If you look back through the videos on his channel you can also see his earlier videos on using flex panels. Good luck!
This is for REN3, but I'm writing in response to K8MEJ.

The newest "shingled" semi-flexible panels appear to be MUCH less prone to dying at a young age. I've been installing them exclusively (on a couple of TTs, and also a class-B) ever since they became widely available - even though my own Travel Trailer has "old style" thin-film cells exclusively. In the newer "shingled" panels, the top-cover film is a much thicker and stronger layer of plastic, covering both the angled "faces" and the edges of the cells underneath.

My Class-B customer took her RV to Snowmass in late February, and literally pulled off two heavy snowfalls (from the panel faces) by using an automotive "snow brush". Absolutely no damage resulted from heavy brushing. I would never dare to that on my that own thin-film cells, because the top layer is so much more prone to cracking. I will be surprised if these "shingled" panels can't survive 6-10 years, exposed to weather at the dock every day, if installed with VHB tape on a relatively firm carbon-fiber surface.
- - - -
With all that said, the T-Top will have some flex in wind and changing angles of travel. I would actually ignore the "cooling requirement", and instead attach the panels with VHB tape around the perimeter edges. My own TT, and most of the TT's for which I make design and installation recommendations (as well as the 3 I've done personally), are all built with very flexible aluminium fold out "shells". This mounting scheme has NEVER failed:

Clean the mounting surface. On each panel (the panels which I recommend are about 23" wide), put 3 6" segments of 1" wide VHB tape along a short edge. The outside segments reach all the way to the corner, the middle segment is separated from the outside pieces by gaps of about 2". This is INTENTIONAL - water spray from high speed travel (towing at RV on the freeway in the wind, or a boat) is allowed to get under the panel through these tiny gaps. But the gaps also DRAIN the panel, both for water and water vapor when heated, preventing any damage to the plastic sheet on the bottom.

Along the adjacent sides, continue with VHB tape (segments of 5-6", separated by gaps of about 1-1/2 inch). When mounting, you don't need to put all the tape down at once. From your picture of the T-top removed and standing nearly vertical on the driveway, I recommend starting from the bottom and working your way upwards. Or you can lay it flat. When you press in one edge, the middle of the panel can be held off from the T-top surface by a segment of 2x4. As you work your way towards the other end, adding VHB segments along the side, you move the 2x4 closer to the free end before pressing in those VHB segments.

Along the length, I traditionally add one or two very small segments in the middle of the panel (perhaps 3" long) to reduce any tendency for the panel to "flap up and down" in the middle. My VHB tape choice has always been RP-32, in one-inch rolls. Although they might work, I have never used any "thicker" version, because more foam creates less strength. I would also not go any thinner than RP-25, because thinner tapes don't allow for enough flex between the T-top and the "semi-flexible" panels.
- - -
The panels I now recommend (exclusively, for "semi-flexible" applications) are these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-100W-Fle...or-Camping-RV-Caravan-Van-Marine/283716192472. The Ebay seller has a great "reputation", and I've bought from him/them many times.

One Amazon version of the tape which matches my requirement is this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007Y7DVH6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1. It's an "RP-25" tape, and you would need a bit less than 2 of the 18-yard rolls, in order to mount 6 panels.
 
Have you looked at the new GICS panels Will recently did a YT video on?

See here:


Should have a much longer lifespan and would be well worth the upgrade cost to avoid remounting cheaper flex panels IMHO.
CIGS panels are not new, and IMO do not have longer lifespan than the "shingled" panels which I recommended above. (And besides, Will is also using a Renogy "Rover". Hmmm.)
 
CIGS panels are not new, and IMO do not have longer lifespan than the "shingled" panels.

Correct, CIGS panels in general are not new.

If you watch the video you will see how they used to be over $1000 and these new ones discussed are much cheaper.

Longer lifespan is definitely expected compared to other flexible panels as also discussed in the video.
 
This is for REN3, but I'm writing in response to K8MEJ.

The newest "shingled" semi-flexible panels appear to be MUCH less prone to dying at a young age. I've been installing them exclusively (on a couple of TTs, and also a class-B) ever since they became widely available - even though my own Travel Trailer has "old style" thin-film cells exclusively. In the newer "shingled" panels, the top-cover film is a much thicker and stronger layer of plastic, covering both the angled "faces" and the edges of the cells underneath.

My Class-B customer took her RV to Snowmass in late February, and literally pulled off two heavy snowfalls (from the panel faces) by using an automotive "snow brush". Absolutely no damage resulted from heavy brushing. I would never dare to that on my that own thin-film cells, because the top layer is so much more prone to cracking. I will be surprised if these "shingled" panels can't survive 6-10 years, exposed to weather at the dock every day, if installed with VHB tape on a relatively firm carbon-fiber surface.
- - - -
With all that said, the T-Top will have some flex in wind and changing angles of travel. I would actually ignore the "cooling requirement", and instead attach the panels with VHB tape around the perimeter edges. My own TT, and most of the TT's for which I make design and installation recommendations (as well as the 3 I've done personally), are all built with very flexible aluminium fold out "shells". This mounting scheme has NEVER failed:

Clean the mounting surface. On each panel (the panels which I recommend are about 23" wide), put 3 6" segments of 1" wide VHB tape along a short edge. The outside segments reach all the way to the corner, the middle segment is separated from the outside pieces by gaps of about 2". This is INTENTIONAL - water spray from high speed travel (towing at RV on the freeway in the wind, or a boat) is allowed to get under the panel through these tiny gaps. But the gaps also DRAIN the panel, both for water and water vapor when heated, preventing any damage to the plastic sheet on the bottom.

Along the adjacent sides, continue with VHB tape (segments of 5-6", separated by gaps of about 1-1/2 inch). When mounting, you don't need to put all the tape down at once. From your picture of the T-top removed and standing nearly vertical on the driveway, I recommend starting from the bottom and working your way upwards. Or you can lay it flat. When you press in one edge, the middle of the panel can be held off from the T-top surface by a segment of 2x4. As you work your way towards the other end, adding VHB segments along the side, you move the 2x4 closer to the free end before pressing in those VHB segments.

Along the length, I traditionally add one or two very small segments in the middle of the panel (perhaps 3" long) to reduce any tendency for the panel to "flap up and down" in the middle. My VHB tape choice has always been RP-32, in one-inch rolls. Although they might work, I have never used any "thicker" version, because more foam creates less strength. I would also not go any thinner than RP-25, because thinner tapes don't allow for enough flex between the T-top and the "semi-flexible" panels.
- - -
The panels I now recommend (exclusively, for "semi-flexible" applications) are these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-100W-Fle...or-Camping-RV-Caravan-Van-Marine/283716192472. The Ebay seller has a great "reputation", and I've bought from him/them many times.

One Amazon version of the tape which matches my requirement is this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007Y7DVH6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1. It's an "RP-25" tape, and you would need a bit less than 2 of the 18-yard rolls, in order to mount 6 panels.
Do you have any datasheets for these Ecoworthy shingled cells? The website shows a Impp around 5A and Isc of over 9A which looks wrong.
 
Do you have any datasheets for these Ecoworthy shingled cells? The website shows a Impp around 5A and Isc of over 9A which looks wrong.
That might actually be correct, due to the larger total volume and surface area of the shingled-against-each-other cells. I never tested for instantaneous current - only for Voltages, and for Power Output capabilities. Although my testing didn't get 100w from the ones I have used, I've never tested them under sunlight as intense as STC (and I do not doubt the "100w" rating).
 
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