Victron All-in-one: "Inverter RS 48/6000 230V Smart Solar"
- Thread starter Will Prowse
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One advantage of using the autotransformer is that you don't have to worry about load-balancing your two 120v legs (e.g. overloading one inverter but having plenty of spare power on the other inverter). That is, if you have two inverters combined in split-phase mode. I'm building my system with an 8 or 10kva victron and an autotransformer because I do need both split phase 240 and 120.
Autotransformer - Victron Energy
Use the Autotransformers for step up, step down and split phase output balancing purposes. Find a Victron Energy dealer near you.
An Autotransformer can be used for step up, step down and split phase output balancing purposes.
While the step up and step down functions are fairly straightforward, split phase output balancing may require some more attention.
Tips or tricks for the above?
Autotransformer - Victron Energy
Use the Autotransformers for step up, step down and split phase output balancing purposes. Find a Victron Energy dealer near you.www.victronenergy.com
An Autotransformer can be used for step up, step down and split phase output balancing purposes.
While the step up and step down functions are fairly straightforward, split phase output balancing may require some more attention.
Tips or tricks for the above?
I'm not sure what they mean -- do they mean balancing an input that's split phase (I realize they say "split phase output balancing") or do they really mean balancing the output of an autotransformer? That's the first I've seen of this. The only caveat that I'm aware of is that the neutral line can't take more than 28a (32 peak) which means your imbalance can't be more than 28 (32) amps. Post 24 describes the setup. See also: https://community.victronenergy.com...transformer-to-create-120v240v-split-pha.html
mrdavvv
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Autotransformadores - Victron Energy
Use the Autotransformers for step up, step down and split phase output balancing purposes. Find a Victron Energy dealer near you.
So how much do they cost?, wich % of energy efficiency are we losing with this?, sounds very interesting!, specially because i might have an unbalanced installation!
Deleted-User
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From the manual:Autotransformer - Victron Energy
Use the Autotransformers for step up, step down and split phase output balancing purposes. Find a Victron Energy dealer near you.
An Autotransformer can be used for step up, step down and split phase output balancing purposes.
While the step up and step down functions are fairly straightforward, split phase output balancing may require some more attention.
Tips or tricks for the above?
"While the step-up and step-down functions are fairly straightforward, split phase output balancing may require some more attention. Consider for example a 30A 120/240V split phase supply. The supply could be the grid, a generator or two stacked inverters. Some of the loads connected are 240V, others are 120V. On each 120V leg the load should not exceed 30A. The problem is that as soon as 120V loads are connected, the two legs will show a different current. This is because the 120V loads on the two legs will never be balanced. A 120V 1200W hairdryer, for example, will draw 10A from one leg. A 120V clothes washer could even draw in excess of 20A from one leg. Between the two legs the difference in current, or current unbalance, will therefore often be 20A or more. This means that the 30A supply will not be used up to its full potential. By the time one leg draws 30A, the other leg may be drawing no more than 10A, and increasing the 240V load, for example, will result in an overload of one leg while the other leg still has spare capacity. Theoretically, the total power that can be drawn from a 30A 120/240V supply is 30 x 240 = 7,2kVA. In case of 20A unbalance, the practical maximum will be 30 x 120 + 10 x120 = 4,8kVA, or 67% of the theoretical maximum. The solution is an autotransformer. By leaving the neutral of the split phase supply unused, and connecting an autotransformer to create a new neutral, as shown in figure 1, any load unbalance is “absorbed” by the autotransformer. In case of a 30A supply, the load can be increased to 7,2kVA, and a 20A load unbalance will result in one leg supplying 40A, and the other leg 20A. The 20A difference will flow through the neutral and the windings of the autotransformer. The current through both 120V wires of the split phase supply will be 30A."
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mrdavvv
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Thats correct, its called AC coupling and works with SMA, Fronius and other FV inverters that have the frequency shifting funcionallity as far as i know.
They will charge your batteries, but its not the most efficient method, since your are having some loses from the string inverter, and the inverter charger itself (2 steps). If you want to prioritize your battery charging, its better to use a separate MPPT Victron charger directly from the panels.
A very cool function, is that if you are connected to the grid, and it fails... then the Victron inverter will create a microgrid, so the PV inverter (Fronius) will keep working, and you can feed the loads directly from PV, string inverter, and your battery.
If most of your loads are working during the day, AC coupling its very good since the efficiency would be >97%.
If your loads are mostrly during the night, or you are not connected to the grid, probably the separate MPPT chargers would be better.
They will charge your batteries, but its not the most efficient method, since your are having some loses from the string inverter, and the inverter charger itself (2 steps). If you want to prioritize your battery charging, its better to use a separate MPPT Victron charger directly from the panels.
A very cool function, is that if you are connected to the grid, and it fails... then the Victron inverter will create a microgrid, so the PV inverter (Fronius) will keep working, and you can feed the loads directly from PV, string inverter, and your battery.
If most of your loads are working during the day, AC coupling its very good since the efficiency would be >97%.
If your loads are mostrly during the night, or you are not connected to the grid, probably the separate MPPT chargers would be better.
D
davelondon
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Where did you see that?
On page 21 of the manual at the top it says: "Parallel and 3-phase operation: No"
...
100kwh-hunter
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Yes victron builds very nice systems, probably the best on the market!
But for bigger systems you need to be a engineer programmer ect.
To start small victon is perfect, there add ons are perfect, however the bigger you go the more you must have or start all over again. with equipment that is not worth it to go off grid(for the second time???)
Quality yes, for the average joe(especially bigger systems) a big no, you get what you payed for: a big yes.
I am not a designer nor programmer, but a electronic enthusiasts, (mechanical)engineer and a construction worker(carpenter for 30 years, background in 1ste electrician) having a moderate company now in the insulation stuff, with programming you are losing me if it is not gw or c or q basic.
Victron vs mpp: in my case mpp wins, i will take the losses for granted but they are very easy to connect.
3 in parralel is 15kwh(or 6 or 9 even in 380v) would be enough for us, some solar chargers and a falifax switch(those are gold from the Victron family)
Many thanks, most of my questions are answered in this thread, I will study that one Will pointed out.
Best to all and stay save from covid! cheers Igor
But for bigger systems you need to be a engineer programmer ect.
To start small victon is perfect, there add ons are perfect, however the bigger you go the more you must have or start all over again. with equipment that is not worth it to go off grid(for the second time???)
Quality yes, for the average joe(especially bigger systems) a big no, you get what you payed for: a big yes.
I am not a designer nor programmer, but a electronic enthusiasts, (mechanical)engineer and a construction worker(carpenter for 30 years, background in 1ste electrician) having a moderate company now in the insulation stuff, with programming you are losing me if it is not gw or c or q basic.
Victron vs mpp: in my case mpp wins, i will take the losses for granted but they are very easy to connect.
3 in parralel is 15kwh(or 6 or 9 even in 380v) would be enough for us, some solar chargers and a falifax switch(those are gold from the Victron family)
Many thanks, most of my questions are answered in this thread, I will study that one Will pointed out.
Best to all and stay save from covid! cheers Igor
100kwh-hunter
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Supplemental:
Does not support parallel or 380v only single phase and is stand alone.
Does not have the choose batts first, does not have a prechoice switch.....
Ac first, second with pv extra it will power your needs then 3th it will use your cells if there is no ac...6kwh ups...
But it is a beast if you have a boat or a camper (and need 6kwh), for home ess I would not do it.
With best regards Igor
Does not support parallel or 380v only single phase and is stand alone.
Does not have the choose batts first, does not have a prechoice switch.....
Ac first, second with pv extra it will power your needs then 3th it will use your cells if there is no ac...6kwh ups...
But it is a beast if you have a boat or a camper (and need 6kwh), for home ess I would not do it.
With best regards Igor
Aaron_85
New Member
I was refering the the MPP solar inverter.
In re-reading my comment, i can see the confusion I've made
Couldn't you just add a Victron Autotransformer, to get 2 phases?
You can. There's a disadvantage for those of us in mobile situations like an RV - we need to connect to both 120 and 120/240 so the AT presents 3 problems:
1) You need 2 of them (1 on input side and one on output side)
2) Your minimum amperage in power assist is doubled, which will exceed 120v 15 and 20a circuits
3) It complicates the input automatic transfer design
For those reasons, I went with dual Quattros.
I'm curious on how you disable the grounding relay on the RS 48/6000. Can't find any mentions of how to proceed in the manual or datasheet.
D
davelondon
Guest
Something interesting about this inverter:
"The maximum AC output power can increase to up to a peak 9000W or 50A AC, when sufficient PV power is also available to support the battery supply."
(from the manual)
I don't believe the other Victron inverter / MPPT combo units do this?
"The maximum AC output power can increase to up to a peak 9000W or 50A AC, when sufficient PV power is also available to support the battery supply."
(from the manual)
I don't believe the other Victron inverter / MPPT combo units do this?
apcorob
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Do you mind sharing where you got that wicked deal.... I might be going that same direction exactly. Also, is your set up part of a post here.... I would like to study it.
thanking you for your hard work helping us all
apcorob
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Mr. Ham.... I am confused by this.... and it is relevant to me because if I go this way my problem is that I have a 120 volt single phase 5.5kW generator which I want to eventually replace with batteries alone charged by solar and alternator .... but until that is done (say a year) I want to keep my generator. I thought this way because I couldn't figure out how to use my 120 volt generator to power the 120 volt loads which weren't battery friendly. I am missing some easy point. Please explain to me at lower level as I would love to not be forced to ditch my generator until I was ready.
Thank you very much...
Those quoted comments were specific to a Schneider CSW 4048 inverter which has a built-in autotransformer that allows the use case I was describing. With that equipment, I can use a 120v generator to drive 120v or 240v loads.
In general, people do exactly as you describe without issue and that is even easier than the 120v/240v CSW 4048. I see no reason you would have to ditch your generator. Driving 120v loads from a 120v generator is a simpler task.
List your specific equipment and you will likely get replies to confirm. A new thread with your use case might be best to get your specific situation addressed.
Joe
In general, people do exactly as you describe without issue and that is even easier than the 120v/240v CSW 4048. I see no reason you would have to ditch your generator. Driving 120v loads from a 120v generator is a simpler task.
List your specific equipment and you will likely get replies to confirm. A new thread with your use case might be best to get your specific situation addressed.
Joe
mickenorlen
New Member
Hi guys,
Looking into this unit as well for new off-grid system in Italy. Found some recent firmware updates and statements from Victron:
Scanning through that thread I also see more support for US users is coming (although it has been taking longer than planned):
Scanning through tech specs for Multi RS Solar (hybrid) Parallell and 3-phase operation is indeed NOT yet supported
BUT: It is supported for the product of this thread, Inverter RS Smart Solar (off-grid).
I'm still a beginner and would like to learn more about this model, and try to find all the components to go with this system. Grateful for any help and suggestions of recommended/required components to go with it!
- Will it integrate well with seplos EVE cells and BMS. Something like Apexium DIY Kits or Seplos mason kit?
- I feel like 4kW of PV input is a little low. I guess the "6000" is referring to the inverter.. I'm wondering if I have to parallell with the same unit, or if it would be possible to combine it with a pure charge controller like SmartSolar MPPT RS if I only need more input? Do you think the Input/Output spec seems balanced on this unit? Comparing to growatt SPF5000ES they instead offer 6kW input and 5kW output. I think I would have preferred that..
- I'm confused about the optional PV array in the picture mentioned earlier (below). I don't understand what this is intended for or how to use it.
@mrdavvv mentions: "If your loads are mostly during the night, or you are not connected to the grid, probably the separate MPPT chargers would be better." So I should just add another unit to add more PV input instead of using this feature?
Either way, after comparing options of buying separate Victron modules, this unit still seems to offer clear value for off-grid at 2250€.
- A separate charge-controller MPPT RS 450|100 would cost ca 1200€ (with 5.7kW max PV input though, 2x 3kW tracks?)
- A MultiPlus-II Inverter/Charger (5000W so 1000W less) seems to cost around 1800€.
- So tot ca 3000€ for similar performance modular.
Are there any other benefits/spec details to consider in this unit compared to other products?
Thank you for you time!
Looking into this unit as well for new off-grid system in Italy. Found some recent firmware updates and statements from Victron:
Scanning through that thread I also see more support for US users is coming (although it has been taking longer than planned):
Scanning through tech specs for Multi RS Solar (hybrid) Parallell and 3-phase operation is indeed NOT yet supported
BUT: It is supported for the product of this thread, Inverter RS Smart Solar (off-grid).
I'm still a beginner and would like to learn more about this model, and try to find all the components to go with this system. Grateful for any help and suggestions of recommended/required components to go with it!
- Will it integrate well with seplos EVE cells and BMS. Something like Apexium DIY Kits or Seplos mason kit?
- I feel like 4kW of PV input is a little low. I guess the "6000" is referring to the inverter.. I'm wondering if I have to parallell with the same unit, or if it would be possible to combine it with a pure charge controller like SmartSolar MPPT RS if I only need more input? Do you think the Input/Output spec seems balanced on this unit? Comparing to growatt SPF5000ES they instead offer 6kW input and 5kW output. I think I would have preferred that..
- I'm confused about the optional PV array in the picture mentioned earlier (below). I don't understand what this is intended for or how to use it.
@mrdavvv mentions: "If your loads are mostly during the night, or you are not connected to the grid, probably the separate MPPT chargers would be better." So I should just add another unit to add more PV input instead of using this feature?
Either way, after comparing options of buying separate Victron modules, this unit still seems to offer clear value for off-grid at 2250€.
- A separate charge-controller MPPT RS 450|100 would cost ca 1200€ (with 5.7kW max PV input though, 2x 3kW tracks?)
- A MultiPlus-II Inverter/Charger (5000W so 1000W less) seems to cost around 1800€.
- So tot ca 3000€ for similar performance modular.
Are there any other benefits/spec details to consider in this unit compared to other products?
Thank you for you time!
Last edited:
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