Installing LiFePo4 cells on the narrow side

Onixid · Jul 27, 2021

Hi, I got four 310Ah cells from VariCore which I'm using as 12V battery. I created a compression box for them, and my idea is to install them on my RV under the passenger seat, that implies an installation on the narrow side of the cells.
I've been reading online some contrasting opinions regarding such installation direction, some people say it's totally fine, some say it is not.
So I was wondering if anyone here can help me to shed some light on such matter.
Thank you so much!

kenryan · Jul 27, 2021

I would think that if they are in a compression box, they would be fine. The friction on the four sides will mitigate any gravitational forces on the batteries. Just be sure that the lower part of your compression box, the part that goes down, is of adequate stiffness. It should not bend.

babybober · Jul 27, 2021

I have been through this and this subject is as bad as politics. People have said it is fine, people say absolutely no as the electrolyte will not cover all the plates if mounted any other way than up, some say the case is to thin and will deform, some say you are fine anyway but upside down. The ONLY sure fire answer is from the manufacturer of the cell.

Onixid · Jul 27, 2021

kenryan said:
I would think that if they are in a compression box, they would be fine. The friction on the four sides will mitigate any gravitational forces on the batteries. Just be sure that the lower part of your compression box, the part that goes down, is of adequate stiffness. It should not bend.

What is the reasoning behind your suggestions? I can't picture in my mind what difference could it make if they're laying on the side compared to when they stand, could you please explain further?

kenryan · Jul 27, 2021

Onixid said:
What is the reasoning behind your suggestions? I can't picture in my mind what difference could it make if they're laying on the side compared to when they stand, could you please explain further?

You're right. In both cases because of the friction against the sides, the batteries themselves resist downward gravitational forces against the bottom of the container. Those forces could still be transferred up THROUGH the bottom, so that is why I suggested that the bottom be adequately stiff. As for the electrolyte issue mentioned by the other poster, that is new to me. I was under the impression that in lithium batteries that is not an issue. Certainly, big battery sellers like Battleborn say that their batteries can be mounted in any position. I do agree that it would be good to ask the cell manufacturer, just to be on the safe side.

RVLiFe · Jul 27, 2021

kenryan said:
Certainly, big battery sellers like Battleborn say that their batteries can be mounted in any position.

Battle Born also uses a completely different kind of cell in their batteries so that’s not a fair comparison.

Bubba1 · Jul 27, 2021

The top of the cells are the weakest side of the cells. Some think the weakest side should be up. I think it is fine with small cells. Not sure about 310 cells in a van.

kenryan · Jul 27, 2021

RVLiFe said:
Battle Born also uses a completely different kind of cell in their batteries so that’s not a fair comparison.

Please explain.

Supervstech · Jul 27, 2021

Battleborn does not use prismatic cells.
They use stacks of cylindrical cells. Cylindrical cells are omnidirectional mounting.
Prismatic have a vent at the top for pressure venting electrolyte gas.
I would stick to manufacturers spec...

kenryan · Jul 27, 2021

Supervstech said:
Battleborn does not use prismatic cells.
They use stacks of cylindrical cells. Cylindrical cells are omnidirectional mounting.
Prismatic have a vent at the top for pressure venting electrolyte gas.
I would stick to manufacturers spec...

Thanks for that. I found this regarding prismatic vs cylindrical:

https://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/cylindrical-vs-prismatic-cells.php

And I found this recommendation regarding using prismatic cells in marine applications:

http://nordkyndesign.com/assembling-a-lithium-iron-phosphate-marine-house-bank/

Both seem to point to the fragility of prismatic cells (especially larger cells). It seems that in an RV application, it would be prudent to place a high priority on isolating the battery from vibration and providing exceptional stress relief on all cables. As for the specific question of orientation, I haven't found anything definitive. Like @Supervstech said, ask manufacturer.

Onixid · Jul 27, 2021

Bubba1 said:
The top of the cells are the weakest side of the cells. Some think the weakest side should be up. I think it is fine with small cells. Not sure about 310 cells in a van.

The cells are completely caged in a wooden box which has on its internal walls insulation for roller shutters (that's the best I found) that along with the pressure applied by the walls holds the cells super tightly, there's no way they can move in any direction. Even if they were to shift (at most they can shift vertically), the terminals could hit at most the top wall which is insulated as well with the same material, so I think I'm pretty safe under that point of view. But if you have more concerns please let me know, I'd rather take into account any possible scenario.

Gazoo · Jul 27, 2021

Onixid said:
The cells are completely caged in a wooden box which has on its internal walls insulation for roller shutters (that's the best I found) that along with the pressure applied by the walls holds the cells super tightly, there's no way they can move in any direction. Even if they were to shift (at most they can shift vertically), the terminals could hit at most the top wall which is insulated as well with the same material, so I think I'm pretty safe under that point of view. But if you have more concerns please let me know, I'd rather take into account any possible scenario.

I think you have CATL cells? Contact CATL and ask them. Why take any risks? I understand you want to do what's convenient for you but think about this carefully. EVE has said mounting the 280ah cells on the biggest side is ok, but not edge. I read somewhere that no more than 2 cells should be mounted on the sides. You will get many opinions and mine is to keep them vertical because I think that's best.

Contact Us

Contemporary Amperex Technology Co., Limited (CATL) is a global leader in new energy innovative technologies, committed to providing premier solutions and services for new energy applications worldwide.

www.catl.com

Bubba1 · Jul 27, 2021

I'm no expert but like to error on the safe side. This is the thread I somewhat paraphrased in my post. He deals in batteries.
Michael B Caro

Photon Sorcerer

Leon said:
Are there any issues with laying the cells on their sides like that? I've read conflicting reports about electrolyte draining away from plates etc. I know nothing about the structure of these particular cells, though.

The information that I have, is that the problem with laying the cells down is that the top is the weakest "side" of the cell. So laying them down puts more pressure on the weak "side" than standing them up, or having them at some kind of an angle.

That said, I would think that this particular problem is not nearly as big of a deal with the smaller cells than with large ones.

Onixid · Jul 27, 2021

Gazoo said:
I think you have CATL cells? Contact CATL and ask them. Why take any risks? I understand you want to do what's convenient for you but think about this carefully. EVE has said mounting the 280ah cells on the biggest side is ok, but not edge. I read somewhere that no more than 2 cells should be mounted on the sides. You will get many opinions and mine is to keep them vertical because I think that's best.

Contact Us

Contemporary Amperex Technology Co., Limited (CATL) is a global leader in new energy innovative technologies, committed to providing premier solutions and services for new energy applications worldwide.

www.catl.com

You're right, I'm not going to take any risks, that is why I'm trying to find out some info about the correct way of installing them.
I'm not sure how to find out if they're made by CATL, on the cells there's just a VariCore sticker with a QR code.

Gazoo · Jul 27, 2021

Onixid said:
You're right, I'm not going to take any risks, that is why I'm trying to find out some info about the correct way of installing them.
I'm not sure how to find out if they're made by CATL, on the cells there's just a VariCore sticker with a QR code.

If you can post a photo of the top of the cell it might be able to be identified.

Onixid · Jul 27, 2021

Gazoo said:
If you can post a photo of the top of the cell it might be able to be identified.

Here's a photo of the cells (I added the +/- stickers myself)

Gazoo · Jul 27, 2021

Looks like CATL to me. The design of the vent cap and the construction around the terminals are what to watch out for. I noticed one of your cells is missing the blue part around the vent. I wouldn't be concerned.

Installing LiFePo4 cells on the narrow side

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I'm no expert but like to error on the safe side. This is the thread I somewhat paraphrased in my post. He deals in batteries.
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