NEWS: New Midnite Solar DIY Series - SCC's & Inverters (great $ too)

Steve, please email me. I bet I can come up with a slightly used KID for you.
I just need your address.

Will Prowse said:

Sure, having better software is important. And I have been sent numerous all in one prototypes that performed horribly because they did not have the same software as MPP or Growatt, even though they looked identical.

But that was not really my point. It is a cheap unit. The terminal blocks, the lack of mounting options for the bottom of the unit, the screen and overall build quality is awful. I expect MUCH better from midnite solar. I have always liked their products, and using a relabeled unit that everyone else is selling seems out of character. Especially a low quality product. You should buy it and look at it. It is not impressive at all.

I am ignorant on Deye. They look nice! But I have nothing to say in a comparison against Sol Ark. Are they both produced by one company?

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they are, sunsynk is also the same unit

Robin Gudgel said:

I wrote directly to Will, but have not heard a reply yet. I really like this forum. I plan on being on it a bit in the future. I would like to make a few comments though about MidNite and the DIY series.
Some say this is a game changer. I disagree. These products and a few more to come next year are made for MidNite by SRNE. They fill a gap where we cannot compete. They re not low quality crappy Chinese products at all. We have been testing them for years. You will see over time the big divergence between SRNE standard products and the MidNite DIY versions. More and more of our engineering suggestions are making it into the DIY series. One other difference is that you have the backing and tech support of MidNite Solar. We have also designed special E-PAnels to go with the DIY all in one inverters since they now will be coming in with ETL approval. It is usually not possible to connect any Chinese inverter to meet NEC without something like our E-Panels. The E-Panels must be made to fit the specific inverter. (No exposed wires or cables).
Someone was concerned that this might be the beginning of the end for MidNite. No, it is not!! We have many new (made in America) products being introduced into the marketplace this year and into next. 600V 90, 120 and 200 amp charge controllers (Barcelona and Hawke's Bay). 15000W B17 hot swappable inverter/MPPT. 10KWH B17B lithium hot swappable battery system. Rosie stand alone inverter/charger. Sunspec compliant module and string level Rapid Shutdown system components. Bluetooth dongle for Classics, Linux based ComBox for internet connectivity.
DIY 5KW split phase with high voltage MPPT next March.
Thanks,
Robin Gudgel
President
MidNite Solar

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so what justifies the price difference between your units and renogy's I RIGHT NOW? Is it just that yours comes with midnite tech support or did you fix some of their issues? because this unit as renogy has been marketing it is considered the worst of it's type (china all in one mppt)

I've done business with you and BoB for years, but I have to admit I was disappointed to see the midnite name on these. Especially at the pricepoint you chose there are so many better options out there.

Hmmm...............

First - Wow! Excited to see a name brand all in one, within reach, competitive with overseas scary stuff! - Happy!
Second - awwwww.....made in china, oh well, understandable. - A little disappointed
Third - awwwwww.....ONE year warranty.....vs FIVE for other stuff. - Worried...but I want to believe...
Fourth - Is it....just a rebrand of...... - Much more disappointed!
Fifth - searching for answers and getting more worried...then....involvement from the CEO! wow! - Excited again! I want to believe! ?
Sixth - there is engagement and a critical question is asked..... then......crickets! - Worry and disappointment at all time high!

I think this sums up the collective experience.
Midnite....Don't sleep on this, you snooze you lose -

carleriksen said:

Hmmm...............

First - Wow! Excited to see a name brand all in one, within reach, competitive with overseas scary stuff! - Happy!
Second - awwwww.....made in china, oh well, understandable. - A little disappointed
Third - awwwwww.....ONE year warranty.....vs FIVE for other stuff. - Worried...but I want to believe...
Fourth - Is it....just a rebrand of...... - Much more disappointed!
Fifth - searching for answers and getting more worried...then....involvement from the CEO! wow! - Excited again! I want to believe! ?
Sixth - there is engagement and a critical question is asked..... then......crickets! - Worry and disappointment at all time high!

I think this sums up the collective experience.
Midnite....Don't sleep on this, you snooze you lose -

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I was really excited to see the CEO on here. I was researching the MidNite DIY series AIO when I found this thread.

I had been very happy with my existing AIO until a week ago. Error 56, it powers up from the batteries but won't power the inverter from the batteries. It is NOT a battery, breaker or cable issue. It has a 5 year warranty, awesome. I've called the vendor for the last week and I keep getting told they will call me back. The owners manual doesn't have any contact information in it. I looked up the manufactures tech line and called it today. I got a recording to call the exact number that I have been calling for the last week. The warrant appears to be useless. If I can get my money back through my credit card company I'll probably buy a MidNite AIO, one year warranty or not.

Hi, We are into the DIY series for two months now. All sold out, so we are trying to get a planeload of them flown in. The world wide shortage of parts and shipping is crazy! The next batch coming in will have ETL listing. We will have our own USA built E-Panels for them too. One new model is a 5000 watt all in one with a 500V MPPT. We have submitted our first engineering and firmware wish list of changes for the SRNE products to the manufacturer.

Some of these will take a fair amount of their engineering time, but we want our DIY product line to become more of a MidNite product. We do understand the shortfalls of other companies products. Heck, we also understand the shortfalls of our own! This all takes time and we are just getting started. Our tech support is now spending 25% of their time answering calls regarding the DIY series and customers asking us how to design their system. Our tech support doesn't really like giving out system design related information due to certain liabilities, but I have instructed them to do it anyway! We must make sure that we are not confusing the customer though, as that could then become a liability.

We also need to make sure you all get the help you need from us. That is a main difference between us and them. There are lots of inexpensive products coming out of China. Some are crap, but some are extremely good. SRNE is not crap as has been stated here. We know what will last and what won't. Don't be surprised to see longer warranty times on the DIY stuff in the future too. All this just takes time, but in the meantime, these DIY units are a great value. I would not hesitate to have one in my own house. Unfortunately I now live in a condo and do not have anything related to solar! I have a plan for that though. Like I have said in the past, if you can't get satisfaction from your dealer or our tech support, feel free to e-mail me directly. I get a few hundred e-mails a day, so what is a few more?
robin@midnitesolar.com

Thanks for the update Robin.

It's not every day that the CEO of a respected company comes on the forum with replies and news. The ETL listing and longer warranty should provide some level of differentiation as well.

A month or two ago I sent in a form to purchase a beta unit at a discount and received no reply whatsoever. I would like to suggest that the person who intakes those forms for Midnite can at least take a moment to respond that an application is received and denied in the future.

Your upcoming 5 kW unit with 500v MPPT sounds like a great addition. Phocos has something similar but I don't see much information about any of them in the field. I will follow Midnites developments here with interest.

Joe

I have called MidNite for support and robin answered the phone and said “ robin can i help you” , I was suprised and the only thing that came to mind to say was “the robin” , he said “yes, i was just down here and i grabbed the phone“ just like it was an everyday thing.......Now do you know why i advocate MidNite Solar......they stand by their stuff.....1000%

JoeHam said:

Thanks for the update Robin.

It's not every day that the CEO of a respected company comes on the forum with replies and news. The ETL listing and longer warranty should provide some level of differentiation as well.

A month or two ago I sent in a form to purchase a beta unit at a discount and received no reply whatsoever. I would like to suggest that the person who intakes those forms for Midnite can at least take a moment to respond that an application is received and denied in the future.

Your upcoming 5 kW unit with 500v MPPT sounds like a great addition. Phocos has something similar but I don't see much information about any of them in the field. I will follow Midnites developments here with interest.

Joe

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Joe, I do not think we usually respond to installers who sign up for beta units. We have sent out a few Beta Hawke's Bay controllers. Mario is still messing around with tracking. Some of the other guys are messing with menus. We have Tony Boatwright (formerly from Trace, Xantrex and Magnum) now in charge of menus on our MNGP2. It is a daunting task as the goal is to have all the menus figured out for the Hawke's Bay, Barcelona, Rosie, B17 and B17B. The system level stuff gets quite complicated as you want to see all that is happening with all the units. Systems can get quite large. So, if you signed up for a beta, I will ask about it and make sure you are on the list. We will be shipping more Barcelona's and Hawke's Bays before long. We shipped our first ones just before Christmas last year. We are still not ready for production. That is really frustrating, but we are very close. We had our first ETL design review today. Should finish the construction review this Friday. Then we can schedule the electrical testing with ETL. The picture is a cart of lithium B17B battery modules. I thought I had pictures of the Barcelona production line on my computer? Guess not.

Great Forum! Disclaimer: I don't work for Midnite, I've purchased several BETA products from them. A KID, A Brat and 1 or 2 that didn't make it to market.

First post...Long post.....

JoeHam, you won't get any replies unless Midnite has a BETA program/product that is active. The Brat was the last one they did. I am impatiently awaiting BETA programs for all the new Inverters and Charge Controllers. The Rosie, The B17, Hawkes Bay and Barcelona. If you signed up, they will contact you once under way. You get a great deal cost wise, extended warranty and of course first in line + they listen to feedback, suggestions, concerns etc. I'm not aware of any other RE company that does this? Or any RE company that the Owners/Engineers etc. reply to questions on open forums, theirs, Midnites, or any others like this one! That's Customer Service!!!!

OK, back on topic. I've ignored the DIY line from Midnite since they are not made here in the USA. I am a few hours drive from their factories in Arlington, Wa. I stop in once in awhile to see what's going on. They have an open door policy. Give them warning and a tour is guaranteed either by the President, Robin, whom you already know from his posts here, or his brother boB, Midnites V.P. and Chief Engineer.

This thread, found it when googling around, motivated me to stop in yesterday at Midnite and get the lowdown on these DIY series products they have put their name on.
I took pics, asked questions. I see Robin beat me to the punch answering some of them! Mostly that is. I asked why they did not do a BETA program on these DIY AIO and CC's? Well, Robin said they have been stress testing them in house for the past few years trying to kill them. They did not have much luck! On grid/off grid they just were not failing. As already stated, there are cheap junk Chinese products, and there are some that are made very well.

Note: The same factory in China can make quality stuff in one shift, and crap the next shift. It's all about who's footing the bill, and or how greedy a factory manager is! You can have identical units with night and day differences in quality. Firmware is a big deal, but so is quality control....

So far, it looks like the factory/manufacturer for the Midnite branded DIY series are on the very well made side of the coin. They wouldn't put their name on them otherwise. Plus support them! A 5 year warranty is mentioned in this thread about one of the clones or similar. As they said, worthless if you get no reply or any type of support....

I told Robin a 1 year warranty is on the lame side, even with outstanding support from Midnite. How about 2 years at least? He has already stated here longer warranties are most likely coming. Yes, they hammered on these units a long time. But now they are out in the wild with their name on them. If the warranty claims remain very low, they have had only 1 or 2 so far and both due to installer/user error, not any defects etc. then they will lengthen the warranty.

So, yesterday I asked Robin if I could pull the covers off a DIY and take some pics? Go for it he said!

Two point or three point mounting? Three point! At least on the MN3548DIY I opened up. I'm going back up to Midnites factory this Thursday. Anything you want to know concerning the DIY series not answered here, ask away! I'll report back in this thread. Or Robin might beat me to it again!

Bottom line: Looks like Midnite wants to sprinkle some of their years of Engineering know how on these DIY units to make them better and stand apart from all the clones out there. They will compete in this area of the market. But, they are hard at work on Made in U.S.A. Inverters and Charge Controllers that will blow away any and all of the competition that have gone offshore completely, Asia, India, Mexico....

Robin and boB are active on the Midnite forum. There is a link on their homepage. You have questions? They have the answers.

Now some DIY pics....First few are the 3524DIY & 3548DIY next to the USA made Rosie Inverter. These are from the trade show booth Midnite is putting together for future shows. That's Robin taking a break to see how it's going. He's hands on and rarely in his office. The Barcelona production line pic he was referring to I actually took that. It's from about a third of the way in from the start.

And a few more of the Midnite DIY pics....

Supervstech said:

Well, that is sad.

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Will Prowse's link points to a Renogy unit. The MNS Chinese DIY charge controllers and DIY inverters are not Renogy. They are SRNE.

They are also only a less expensive alternative like many other hybrid inverters. China is getting too good at this stuff and Midnite is offering one of those company's products and also adding support for them.

MidNite's own inverters are made in the USA and they employ many people to build them. Not even using contract manufacturers. Engineering and production, as much as possible, is done in Arlington, Washington

I would not sell my MidNite Classic 150,s (2) or MidNite Kid (2) (beta test units) for 3X the price i paid for them
I had one small issue with my first Classic, I was moving it to a new location and bumped it too hard and the insulator block on the solar input/ battery output fell into the fan tray , I didnt notice that it was missing and when I powered up again it was causing a buzzing noise, I called MidNite and explained the problem, I received excellent tech support. I admitted that I caused the problem and said I was willing to pay for the parts if I could repair it. Tech support mailed me a new fan and terminal block with complete instructions on how to service the fan at no charge, even though it was not a warranty problem. The fan blades were nicked by the insulator block, not destroyed.

Due to inhouse testing and beta testing MidNite products are fully tested before you need to find out what they cannot do.

I am patiently awaiting a “Rosie the Inverter” to replace my very old and tired but reliable MagnaSine which is cranky, old, and tired, in which Magnum Energy has little support for “ We replaced that model with XXXX” Like I am going to buy another......maybe if I get desperate....

Great I feel a bit relieved.
Since I recommend a midnitesolar diy inverter to a friend who wasn't too loaded but wanted something that worth his money.
It's good to know midnite is standing by theses products and also monitoring its quality .

I'm also in western Washington and I've run a pair of Midnite Classic 150's for over 5 years. And will confirm they are rock solid.

And there are another 4 Classic 150's installed in our off grid neighborhood. All those have been running for more than 5 years.

There are also 4 original Trace SW4024's up here that have been around for some 20 years. Whenever an original SW4024 becomes available, it's a scramble on who snags it. (BTW the Trace SW4024's were designed by the Robin and BoB some 20 years ago)

So I have a high regard for Midnite equipment and their tech support, gained thru many years of hands on experience.

I was a bit disappointed when Will gave his negative comments without even seeing the DIY line. But when a unit does come available for review, I'm sure Will will be happy to take his famous hack saw out and give the unit a through going over.

Good luck on the DIY !!!

DennisB

I have not seen Will review any Midnite Solar products and just searched his vids and nope...
I have Midnite Gear, It's Great Stuff and does EXACTLY as it is supposed to without fail and has done so since installation.
I would expect nothing less from an Established Tier-1 Manufacturer.

Will did comment on the DIY line without having one in hand. He states that he likes MidNite gear, but i have never seen one on any of his videos.

ewb said:

Anyone have more info. on the Barcelona CC? Is the inverter mentioned above AKA Rosie? The Barcelona sheet says "Built in Arlington, WA USA" FWIW.

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I was up at the Midnite Solar factories in Arlington, WA last week. This is another look at the new production line that's being built for the 600V Barcelona, Hawkes Bay Charge Controllers and I believe the Rosie too. First one I posted earlier was further down the line. This one is at the start of it. The Barcelona and Hawkes Bay just went through the first step of ETL listing last week, Construction, physical design etc. Next up will be the ETL electrical testing. Once they get the listing, end of this year? Then the big production line goes from low speed to high speed. They are investing in Made in U.S.A. products. The DIY series fills in the gap at the other end of the market.

Two part video on the Rosie starts here :


2

Just an update .
I friend of mine decided to gamble with a midnite diy charge controller.
Upon unboxing I must admit it seems well built. In a week time I would share on its performance.
I wouldn't be cracking it open to seem what's inside because of warranty. But I do hope the warranty couldn't least be 2 years on all the midnite diy stuff.
And yes I support the idea of Will testing at least one of midnite diy inverter.

Mahendra Gomanie said:

Just an update .
I friend of mine decided to gamble with a midnite diy charge controller.
Upon unboxing I must admit it seems well built. In a week time I would share on its performance.
I wouldn't be cracking it open to seem what's inside because of warranty. But I do hope the warranty couldn't least be 2 years on all the midnite diy stuff.
And yes I support the idea of Will testing at least one of midnite diy inverter.

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Maybe we can open one of those up and take pictures ? I will see.

boB

boondox said:

Awesome! A friend and I were commenting recently about how Midnite was getting left behind and entering "OK Boomer" territory. Really glad to see they are staying in the game. Although I don't know why they can't put a software patch out for the Classic to handle LFP.

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Lithium batteries can be confusing. The Classic works fine with Lithium, but you have to select your voltage points. We don't want to just put a "Lithium button" on the Classic menu as not all Lithium batteries want the same charge parameters. Please call our tech support for help with your battery charger settings. The bottom line is that you need to give the battery a higher voltage setting than what they want in order to allow the batteries onboard BMS to do the final charging. All charge controllers are capable of doing this.

Robin Gudgel said:

Lithium batteries can be confusing. The Classic works fine with Lithium, but you have to select your voltage points. We don't want to just put a "Lithium button" on the Classic menu as not all Lithium batteries want the same charge parameters. Please call our tech support for help with your battery charger settings. The bottom line is that you need to give the battery a higher voltage setting than what they want in order to allow the batteries onboard BMS to do the final charging. All charge controllers are capable of doing this.

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Just curious, do you work at Midnite? I am a big fan of Midnite products.

None of the BMS's I have worked with do "final charging" unless you mean balancing. They are simple gatekeepers for over current in or out and low/high voltage cut off and temperature cut off for charging if so equipped. The charge controller does all the charging. Of course settings may need to be tweaked depending on manufacturers specs. the same is true of flooded. and AGM and yet Midnite has generic settings for them. Why not a generic for lithium?

Not too long ago a friend and I were getting a Midnite Classic to work with lithium. IIRC we had to fool with the rebulk setting as the charge controller would allow the power to be pulled from the battery instead of the array after completing charge. We did get it to work. I still do not understand why Midnite does not include a basic lithium set of defaults. Other charge controllers do this. If nothing else it makes Midnite look behind the times.

I suspect we do not have a lithium setting because Bob, my brother, who designed the Classic (and the OutBack MX60) has been busy working on the B17 for the past 5 years or so? I will bring this up to Bob and Ryan to see what can be done about it. It may be easy to add another menu selection. Lithiums are not all the same though. I know we are somewhat concerned that a few people might try charging lithium without a BMS though. In that case we would have to be more accurate or something. The Classic is one of the few controllers where you can stop the charge if the BMS sends the Classic a signal to stop charging. I know this was useful years ago when Lithium was pretty new. I haven't kept up with it though.
I do work at MidNite. I am the president.
Thanks,
Robin Gudgel

Yes, by finishing, we mean the balancing. That is where it would be done.... Where the current is less and time can be longer I think is the reason.

I understand what you mean by the CC drawing power when the charging is done. That is because the idle power comes from the battery side and if the PV (or whatever input) is not holding the battery side voltage up, then it has to come from the battery. This could be minimized or brought to zero amps from the battery if the "float" voltage was set to the right voltage and not below the battery resting voltage. i.e. If Float voltage were just at that resting point, then when the battery voltage would normally drop lower, the PV input would kick in and try to keep it at that float voltage. But lithium batteries tend not to drop their voltage so much like lead acid does so that voltage setting would have to be set a bit tighter.

The voltage regulation is not necessarily sitting within a gnat's ass of what people might want to see. It will move up and down at least +/- tenth of a volt. Depending.... This can be worse at high PV voltage to battery voltage ratios because of reduced CC PWM duty cycle resolution. Like, 250 volts input and 12 volt output,

Of course at night, you will still have idle loss unless the CC can be turned off. If that is needed, then either the CC draws way too much power or the batteries are way too small. That part can be kind of tough but we always want to try to keep idle losses down. Isn't always as good as we would like though.

With more and more lithium being used, we are seeing more requests for these settings. We will see what we can do to add a lithium setting but it won't be correct for every lithium system as you well know. We can try to please as many as we can allow.

Let us know your wants and desires and we can try to head in that direction. It might help to know what folks such as yourselves would like too.

Thanks for being a fan, too ! Appreciate that !

boB