NEWS: New Midnite Solar DIY Series - SCC's & Inverters (great $ too)
- Thread starter Steve_S
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SpongeboB Sinewave
Solar Enthusiast
Will Prowse's link points to a Renogy unit. The MNS Chinese DIY charge controllers and DIY inverters are not Renogy. They are SRNE.
They are also only a less expensive alternative like many other hybrid inverters. China is getting too good at this stuff and Midnite is offering one of those company's products and also adding support for them.
MidNite's own inverters are made in the USA and they employ many people to build them. Not even using contract manufacturers. Engineering and production, as much as possible, is done in Arlington, Washington
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I would not sell my MidNite Classic 150,s (2) or MidNite Kid (2) (beta test units) for 3X the price i paid for them
I had one small issue with my first Classic, I was moving it to a new location and bumped it too hard and the insulator block on the solar input/ battery output fell into the fan tray , I didnt notice that it was missing and when I powered up again it was causing a buzzing noise, I called MidNite and explained the problem, I received excellent tech support. I admitted that I caused the problem and said I was willing to pay for the parts if I could repair it. Tech support mailed me a new fan and terminal block with complete instructions on how to service the fan at no charge, even though it was not a warranty problem. The fan blades were nicked by the insulator block, not destroyed.
Due to inhouse testing and beta testing MidNite products are fully tested before you need to find out what they cannot do.
I am patiently awaiting a “Rosie the Inverter” to replace my very old and tired but reliable MagnaSine which is cranky, old, and tired, in which Magnum Energy has little support for “ We replaced that model with XXXX” Like I am going to buy another......maybe if I get desperate....
I had one small issue with my first Classic, I was moving it to a new location and bumped it too hard and the insulator block on the solar input/ battery output fell into the fan tray , I didnt notice that it was missing and when I powered up again it was causing a buzzing noise, I called MidNite and explained the problem, I received excellent tech support. I admitted that I caused the problem and said I was willing to pay for the parts if I could repair it. Tech support mailed me a new fan and terminal block with complete instructions on how to service the fan at no charge, even though it was not a warranty problem. The fan blades were nicked by the insulator block, not destroyed.
Due to inhouse testing and beta testing MidNite products are fully tested before you need to find out what they cannot do.
I am patiently awaiting a “Rosie the Inverter” to replace my very old and tired but reliable MagnaSine which is cranky, old, and tired, in which Magnum Energy has little support for “ We replaced that model with XXXX” Like I am going to buy another......maybe if I get desperate....
Mahendra Gomanie
Solar Enthusiast
Great I feel a bit relieved.
Since I recommend a midnitesolar diy inverter to a friend who wasn't too loaded but wanted something that worth his money.
It's good to know midnite is standing by theses products and also monitoring its quality .
Since I recommend a midnitesolar diy inverter to a friend who wasn't too loaded but wanted something that worth his money.
It's good to know midnite is standing by theses products and also monitoring its quality .
OffGridGuy
Living the Dream - Off Grid
I'm also in western Washington and I've run a pair of Midnite Classic 150's for over 5 years. And will confirm they are rock solid.
And there are another 4 Classic 150's installed in our off grid neighborhood. All those have been running for more than 5 years.
There are also 4 original Trace SW4024's up here that have been around for some 20 years. Whenever an original SW4024 becomes available, it's a scramble on who snags it. (BTW the Trace SW4024's were designed by the Robin and BoB some 20 years ago)
So I have a high regard for Midnite equipment and their tech support, gained thru many years of hands on experience.
I was a bit disappointed when Will gave his negative comments without even seeing the DIY line. But when a unit does come available for review, I'm sure Will will be happy to take his famous hack saw out and give the unit a through going over.
Good luck on the DIY !!!
DennisB
And there are another 4 Classic 150's installed in our off grid neighborhood. All those have been running for more than 5 years.
There are also 4 original Trace SW4024's up here that have been around for some 20 years. Whenever an original SW4024 becomes available, it's a scramble on who snags it. (BTW the Trace SW4024's were designed by the Robin and BoB some 20 years ago)
So I have a high regard for Midnite equipment and their tech support, gained thru many years of hands on experience.
I was a bit disappointed when Will gave his negative comments without even seeing the DIY line. But when a unit does come available for review, I'm sure Will will be happy to take his famous hack saw out and give the unit a through going over.
Good luck on the DIY !!!
DennisB
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Steve_S
Offgrid Cabineer, N.E. Ontario, Canada
I have not seen Will review any Midnite Solar products and just searched his vids and nope...
I have Midnite Gear, It's Great Stuff and does EXACTLY as it is supposed to without fail and has done so since installation.
I would expect nothing less from an Established Tier-1 Manufacturer.
I have Midnite Gear, It's Great Stuff and does EXACTLY as it is supposed to without fail and has done so since installation.
I would expect nothing less from an Established Tier-1 Manufacturer.
Midnite Beta Tester
Just Testing
I was up at the Midnite Solar factories in Arlington, WA last week. This is another look at the new production line that's being built for the 600V Barcelona, Hawkes Bay Charge Controllers and I believe the Rosie too. First one I posted earlier was further down the line. This one is at the start of it. The Barcelona and Hawkes Bay just went through the first step of ETL listing last week, Construction, physical design etc. Next up will be the ETL electrical testing. Once they get the listing, end of this year? Then the big production line goes from low speed to high speed.
They are investing in Made in U.S.A. products. The DIY series fills in the gap at the other end of the market.Attachments
Mahendra Gomanie
Solar Enthusiast
Just an update .
I friend of mine decided to gamble with a midnite diy charge controller.
Upon unboxing I must admit it seems well built. In a week time I would share on its performance.
I wouldn't be cracking it open to seem what's inside because of warranty. But I do hope the warranty couldn't least be 2 years on all the midnite diy stuff.
And yes I support the idea of Will testing at least one of midnite diy inverter.
I friend of mine decided to gamble with a midnite diy charge controller.
Upon unboxing I must admit it seems well built. In a week time I would share on its performance.
I wouldn't be cracking it open to seem what's inside because of warranty. But I do hope the warranty couldn't least be 2 years on all the midnite diy stuff.
And yes I support the idea of Will testing at least one of midnite diy inverter.
SpongeboB Sinewave
Solar Enthusiast
Robin Gudgel
MidNite Solar
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2020
- Messages
- 59
Lithium batteries can be confusing. The Classic works fine with Lithium, but you have to select your voltage points. We don't want to just put a "Lithium button" on the Classic menu as not all Lithium batteries want the same charge parameters. Please call our tech support for help with your battery charger settings. The bottom line is that you need to give the battery a higher voltage setting than what they want in order to allow the batteries onboard BMS to do the final charging. All charge controllers are capable of doing this.
boondox
Chief Engineer, RedNeckTech Industries
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2020
- Messages
- 789
Just curious, do you work at Midnite? I am a big fan of Midnite products.
None of the BMS's I have worked with do "final charging" unless you mean balancing. They are simple gatekeepers for over current in or out and low/high voltage cut off and temperature cut off for charging if so equipped. The charge controller does all the charging. Of course settings may need to be tweaked depending on manufacturers specs. the same is true of flooded. and AGM and yet Midnite has generic settings for them. Why not a generic for lithium?
Not too long ago a friend and I were getting a Midnite Classic to work with lithium. IIRC we had to fool with the rebulk setting as the charge controller would allow the power to be pulled from the battery instead of the array after completing charge. We did get it to work. I still do not understand why Midnite does not include a basic lithium set of defaults. Other charge controllers do this. If nothing else it makes Midnite look behind the times.
Robin Gudgel
MidNite Solar
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2020
- Messages
- 59
I suspect we do not have a lithium setting because Bob, my brother, who designed the Classic (and the OutBack MX60) has been busy working on the B17 for the past 5 years or so? I will bring this up to Bob and Ryan to see what can be done about it. It may be easy to add another menu selection. Lithiums are not all the same though. I know we are somewhat concerned that a few people might try charging lithium without a BMS though. In that case we would have to be more accurate or something. The Classic is one of the few controllers where you can stop the charge if the BMS sends the Classic a signal to stop charging. I know this was useful years ago when Lithium was pretty new. I haven't kept up with it though.
I do work at MidNite. I am the president.
Thanks,
Robin Gudgel
I do work at MidNite. I am the president.
Thanks,
Robin Gudgel
SpongeboB Sinewave
Solar Enthusiast
Yes, by finishing, we mean the balancing. That is where it would be done.... Where the current is less and time can be longer I think is the reason.
I understand what you mean by the CC drawing power when the charging is done. That is because the idle power comes from the battery side and if the PV (or whatever input) is not holding the battery side voltage up, then it has to come from the battery. This could be minimized or brought to zero amps from the battery if the "float" voltage was set to the right voltage and not below the battery resting voltage. i.e. If Float voltage were just at that resting point, then when the battery voltage would normally drop lower, the PV input would kick in and try to keep it at that float voltage. But lithium batteries tend not to drop their voltage so much like lead acid does so that voltage setting would have to be set a bit tighter.
The voltage regulation is not necessarily sitting within a gnat's ass of what people might want to see. It will move up and down at least +/- tenth of a volt. Depending.... This can be worse at high PV voltage to battery voltage ratios because of reduced CC PWM duty cycle resolution. Like, 250 volts input and 12 volt output,
Of course at night, you will still have idle loss unless the CC can be turned off. If that is needed, then either the CC draws way too much power or the batteries are way too small. That part can be kind of tough but we always want to try to keep idle losses down. Isn't always as good as we would like though.
With more and more lithium being used, we are seeing more requests for these settings. We will see what we can do to add a lithium setting but it won't be correct for every lithium system as you well know. We can try to please as many as we can allow.
Let us know your wants and desires and we can try to head in that direction. It might help to know what folks such as yourselves would like too.
Thanks for being a fan, too ! Appreciate that !
boB
I understand what you mean by the CC drawing power when the charging is done. That is because the idle power comes from the battery side and if the PV (or whatever input) is not holding the battery side voltage up, then it has to come from the battery. This could be minimized or brought to zero amps from the battery if the "float" voltage was set to the right voltage and not below the battery resting voltage. i.e. If Float voltage were just at that resting point, then when the battery voltage would normally drop lower, the PV input would kick in and try to keep it at that float voltage. But lithium batteries tend not to drop their voltage so much like lead acid does so that voltage setting would have to be set a bit tighter.
The voltage regulation is not necessarily sitting within a gnat's ass of what people might want to see. It will move up and down at least +/- tenth of a volt. Depending.... This can be worse at high PV voltage to battery voltage ratios because of reduced CC PWM duty cycle resolution. Like, 250 volts input and 12 volt output,
Of course at night, you will still have idle loss unless the CC can be turned off. If that is needed, then either the CC draws way too much power or the batteries are way too small. That part can be kind of tough but we always want to try to keep idle losses down. Isn't always as good as we would like though.
With more and more lithium being used, we are seeing more requests for these settings. We will see what we can do to add a lithium setting but it won't be correct for every lithium system as you well know. We can try to please as many as we can allow.
Let us know your wants and desires and we can try to head in that direction. It might help to know what folks such as yourselves would like too.
Thanks for being a fan, too ! Appreciate that !
boB
Gnats ass, I am familiar with that precise measurement term ?.
Without a doubt LiFePO4 is the most common Lithium chemistry folks here use boB.
I’m sure you’re quite familiar with proper settings but here is a very elementary piece with decent values:
www.solacity.com
Without a doubt LiFePO4 is the most common Lithium chemistry folks here use boB.
I’m sure you’re quite familiar with proper settings but here is a very elementary piece with decent values:
How to Find Happiness With LiFePO4 (Lithium-Ion) Batteries – Solacity
By: Rob Beckers You have just sold your first-born into slavery, remortgaged the house, and bought yourself a lithium-ion battery! Now you want to know how to take care of your precious new purchase: How to best charge lithium-iron batteries, how to discharge them, and how to get the maximum...
www.solacity.com
Steve_S
Offgrid Cabineer, N.E. Ontario, Canada
I would Strongly Suggest that Robin & Co seriously consider casting an eye on the "ESS Telecom Battery" Modules such as the LiFePO4 EG-4 or similar. Will just did a review on one Variety which is a great value... I would certainly avoid other chemistries aside from LFP. It appears that many people are not aware of these is general terms nor the fact that MANY manufacturers make these like CATL, EVE, GBS, A123 and even LG, GE, SDI and others.
Most are Manageable via CANbus and have interfacing for just that and so with a bit of planning up front a whole "Family" product line could occur.
Search this in google and be prepared to be surprised : ess telecom Battery manufacturers
Most are Manageable via CANbus and have interfacing for just that and so with a bit of planning up front a whole "Family" product line could occur.
Search this in google and be prepared to be surprised : ess telecom Battery manufacturers
boondox
Chief Engineer, RedNeckTech Industries
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2020
- Messages
- 789
@Robin Gudgel Wow, very nice to meet you. I have a Midnite Classic 150 that I got shortly after they came out. It has been cranking away, year after year. Great piece of equipment. I have installed at least 20 of them for friends and other folks. Only issues I have had is there were a few that had problems with the turbo fan but replacements were sent free of charge.
@SpongeboB Sinewave Sounds like you work at Midnite too. Yes, it is indeed trickier with lithium as small voltage changes have large significance. Until we got the settings right the batteries would have a good bit of power pulled out of them before the CC kicked back in, measured in aH not by voltage. Once we got it right it works fine.
However, I have used Classic series for years and know the menu system and settings fairly well and it took me a while to come up with settings that worked. I am reasonably handy at this sort of thing but there was still a good bit of fumbling around to get it right. I think few users have ever fooled with the rebulk setting. I do think that a generic lithium settings should be included as a starting point. It would have gotten me up and running quicker. And then there is appearances, to the less knowledgeable it may appear that the Midnite CC's don't work with lithium.
@JoeHam Good article. I just sent the link to my stepson who has just bought an off grid property.
@SpongeboB Sinewave Sounds like you work at Midnite too. Yes, it is indeed trickier with lithium as small voltage changes have large significance. Until we got the settings right the batteries would have a good bit of power pulled out of them before the CC kicked back in, measured in aH not by voltage. Once we got it right it works fine.
However, I have used Classic series for years and know the menu system and settings fairly well and it took me a while to come up with settings that worked. I am reasonably handy at this sort of thing but there was still a good bit of fumbling around to get it right. I think few users have ever fooled with the rebulk setting. I do think that a generic lithium settings should be included as a starting point. It would have gotten me up and running quicker. And then there is appearances, to the less knowledgeable it may appear that the Midnite CC's don't work with lithium.
@JoeHam Good article. I just sent the link to my stepson who has just bought an off grid property.
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2020
- Messages
- 21,091
Hey Midnight guys, here's a suggestion for you regarding your charge controllers and lithium.
For lead-acid you of course support voltage adjustment depending on temperature.
For lithium, the data we see says maximum allowed charge current varies with temperature.
When using separate charge controller and inverter, you wouldn't know how much current goes to the battery. But with a shunt, you can know.
Give your charge controller some parameters for charge current vs. temperature, so current tapers off at higher and lower temperatures.
diysolarforum.com
For lead-acid you of course support voltage adjustment depending on temperature.
For lithium, the data we see says maximum allowed charge current varies with temperature.
When using separate charge controller and inverter, you wouldn't know how much current goes to the battery. But with a shunt, you can know.
Give your charge controller some parameters for charge current vs. temperature, so current tapers off at higher and lower temperatures.
Why you cannot charge LiFePO4 below 0 degrees Celsius
...I glazed over...Soooo far past me...... but, does this mean that the claims of the -20F chargeable LiFePO4 cells could be true? Based on what i’ve read in this forum, not for any practical use. I’m no expert on the matter, though.
diysolarforum.com
SpongeboB Sinewave
Solar Enthusiast
Great ideas and thanks for the article links too !
As far as supporting MANY different CANBUS BMS's, (Steve_S) I don't think that they all use a "standard" for making them work. Please enlighten me if this is not the case. It would be quite a feat to incorporate every single protocol that we can find. There may be a way to somehow upload the different settings for the different systems though, especially in our new products.
Batteries are always going to take some fiddling around. They are not all the same.
One thing here I REALLY like is to be able to reduce the charge current using temperature !
BTW, we have the Whizbang Junior to tell what the actual battery charge current is.
Great stuff. Keep it coming !
boB
As far as supporting MANY different CANBUS BMS's, (Steve_S) I don't think that they all use a "standard" for making them work. Please enlighten me if this is not the case. It would be quite a feat to incorporate every single protocol that we can find. There may be a way to somehow upload the different settings for the different systems though, especially in our new products.
Batteries are always going to take some fiddling around. They are not all the same.
One thing here I REALLY like is to be able to reduce the charge current using temperature !
BTW, we have the Whizbang Junior to tell what the actual battery charge current is.
Great stuff. Keep it coming !
boB
