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The vaccinated are more likely to catch Covid

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iu

P100 has a one way exhale valve, and I must exert more effort to inhale but do not experience the CO2 buildup feeling.

usually wear N95/KN95 for comfort anyways.

midway through the pandemic I regularly shaved and wore a P100 mask to market :)

totally fudges up voice communications, was thinking of adding an intercom to make chatting in public easier :LOL:
 
Oh boy, aren't you nice.

I haven't been in the hospital, had COVID and recovered. You're one of those who denies science and natural immunity aren't you.
Just facts.. it is the people who refuse to vaccinate who are clogging up hospital rooms.

If you had covid and recovered, then you're probably fine.. but until you had it and recovered, you had no information to suggest you wouldn't die and/or clog the hospital up. So basically, its like you jumped out of an airplane, and only after you started falling did you discover you had a parachute...
That isn't wise...

Your natural immunity is a hit-and-miss game.. one mutation of the virus and your immunity might not mean squat.

The virus is a game of numbers.. it has a high infection rate, but a relatively low mortality rate as serious pandemics go.. but because of its super high infection rate, it becomes a numbers game.
The irrational part is that you're willing to play this numbers game, say 1 in 500 end up hospitalized and 1 in 5000 of our population die from it.. No big deal right? But the truth is, and this is an example of the gross irrational nature of people, if those odds applied to driving your car or going to your job, or eating steak, the fact is, you wouldn't have a car, a job, or eat meat.

Are you a doctor? No? Then perhaps you should listen to YOUR doctor on how to handle issues concerning your health.. Your doctor is a licensed professional with years of training and, by law, he has your best interests in mind. He's not some youtube social media quack handing out bogus advice to people who aren't his patients, thus freeing himself from liability.. he isn't a book author hiding behind freedom of speech protections.. he's your doctor and you pay him for his professional advice and he's obligated by law to give you the best advice he has available.

When the vaccine first came out, I waited 6 months because I felt it was rushed to market.. I'm also retired and live on enough property to land an airplane, and when I do work, I work for mostly international clients and rarely leave my home.. I felt I was being wise and prudent because of the situation.. but if I was a cashier, I would have had to adjust my risk/reward analysis and would have probably gotten the vaccine as soon as I could.

11 months later, over 7 BILLION people have been vaccinated, and no unusual alarms being set off... The rest is ignorance, complacency, conspiracy, and Darwinism.
 
Your natural immunity is a hit-and-miss game.. one mutation of the virus and your immunity might not mean squat.
This is the least informed comment I have heard in this entire thread.

The vaccine you are so adamant every one needs to take is based on a lone spike protein (one single dimension) of the original "wild" variant.

Natural immunity is based on the entire virus and quite possibly on a more current variant.

Straight up ignorant.

Edited to conform with site policies.
 
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When the vaccine first came out, I waited 6 months because I felt it was rushed to market.. I'm also retired and live on enough property to land an airplane, and when I do work, I work for mostly international clients and rarely leave my home..

I see, so your wisdom of waiting 6 months is greater than mine for waiting longer. Got it.
 
This is the least informed comment I have heard in this entire thread.

The vaccine you are so adamant every one needs to take is based on a lone spike protein (one single dimension) of the original "wild" variant.

Natural immunity is based on the entire virus and quite possibly on a more current variant.

Straight up ignorant.

Edited to conform with site policies.
Thank you for your expert opinion doctor.. but I think I'll listen to my own doctor instead of some anonymous forum poster on the internet.

Carry on...
 
Just facts.. it is the people who refuse to vaccinate who are clogging up hospital rooms.

If you had covid and recovered, then you're probably fine.. but until you had it and recovered, you had no information to suggest you wouldn't die and/or clog the hospital up. So basically, its like you jumped out of an airplane, and only after you started falling did you discover you had a parachute...
That isn't wise...

Your natural immunity is a hit-and-miss game.. one mutation of the virus and your immunity might not mean squat.

The virus is a game of numbers.. it has a high infection rate, but a relatively low mortality rate as serious pandemics go.. but because of its super high infection rate, it becomes a numbers game.
The irrational part is that you're willing to play this numbers game, say 1 in 500 end up hospitalized and 1 in 5000 of our population die from it.. No big deal right? But the truth is, and this is an example of the gross irrational nature of people, if those odds applied to driving your car or going to your job, or eating steak, the fact is, you wouldn't have a car, a job, or eat meat.

Are you a doctor? No? Then perhaps you should listen to YOUR doctor on how to handle issues concerning your health.. Your doctor is a licensed professional with years of training and, by law, he has your best interests in mind. He's not some youtube social media quack handing out bogus advice to people who aren't his patients, thus freeing himself from liability.. he isn't a book author hiding behind freedom of speech protections.. he's your doctor and you pay him for his professional advice and he's obligated by law to give you the best advice he has available.

When the vaccine first came out, I waited 6 months because I felt it was rushed to market.. I'm also retired and live on enough property to land an airplane, and when I do work, I work for mostly international clients and rarely leave my home.. I felt I was being wise and prudent because of the situation.. but if I was a cashier, I would have had to adjust my risk/reward analysis and would have probably gotten the vaccine as soon as I could.

11 months later, over 7 BILLION people have been vaccinated, and no unusual alarms being set off... The rest is ignorance, complacency, conspiracy, and Darwinism.

The video I posted earlier is from one of the most learned epidemiologists ...... If you actually watched that video with an open mind .... you wouldn't be making the statements you are.
If you choose to keep the blinders on ... please stop bad mouthing those who are more informed.

One problem we have now is that these vaccines aren't designed for the Delta variant .... that variant now makes up the vast majority of cases now. The vaccine doesn't do NEARLY as good of job protecting against it as natural immunity .... so, people who have gotten Covid and recovered should be held in much higher regard.

Another problem is that there hasn't been anywhere near enough focus on treatment and other prevention regimens. Some of those don't cost thousands of dollars, yet are very effective.
The doctor who made that video says he hasn't personally lost a single covid patient using his protocol .... and at one point almost broke into tears thinking about all the people who have died that received totally ineffective treatments ... and almost no treatment in the early stages.

When I had a routine doctors appointment, I asked my family doctor what he recommended when one of his patients got Covid .... he said that there wasn't really anything he could do but monitor them and if they got bad enough get them in the hospital.
This is the information the doctors are being spoon fed ... and is a failure of medicine on a grand scale.

Below is a chart posted in JAMA early on .... the people who pull the strings have decided to totally ignore this and other protocols.

What most people don't realize is that the primary job of a doctor is to diagnose a condition. Once that condition is diagnosed, their job is merely to follow the protocol for that condition that has been passed down from on high. If they deviate from that protocol, even when they know it is flawed they put themselves at risk.

If you are only going to do one thing for yourself, get your vitamin D levels in the top end of the recommended range. A very large % of people who get seriously ill have low vitamin D.

I have attached a document that includes thing to be done at home for early treatment and also includes supplements that are valuable to take. It also includes the chart listed below.

1635712491573.png
 

Attachments

  • aaps-Guide-to-Home-Based-Covid-Treatment.pdf
    1.9 MB · Views: 3
  • Pathophysiological Basis and Rationale for Early Outpatient Treatment of SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19)...pdf
    1.1 MB · Views: 1
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Thank you for your expert opinion doctor.. but I think I'll listen to my own doctor instead of some anonymous forum poster on the internet.

Carry on...
Says one anonymous forum poster on the internet to another, as he runs out of any form of coherent rebuttal. ? :rolleyes:

Edit: I really dont enjoy this but I have run out of patience with people who push extreme agendas and try shame others into complying.
 
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We tend to want to believe "athletes" are healthy and if you can convince everyone that being an athlete makes you healthy then when one gets sick you can point to them and say "Look! Health does not matter."

Fact is that as a rule, anyone competing in endurance athletics are not healthy. It is simply to much load on the body and they are not healthy.

Being thin also does not make you healthy. There are many skinny people that are metabolically obese.

I know this from personal experience as well as observing many of my friends (some of whom are dead) from when I was a teen and well into my 20s when the wheels started coming off. I was a body builder and cycled well over 20,000 km every year. Ate everything that was in arms reach and had so many issues I eventually had to give up sport. Still never got fat, but was sick as hell. Didnt get it figured out until I was 40.
Here is a link regarding exercise and health. There is a reasonably good chance the average person will need to do a bunch of research to actually understand it but the gist of what he is saying should be fairly easy to up take.

 
Says one anonymous forum poster on the internet to another, as he runs out of any form of coherent rebuttal. ? :rolleyes:

Edit: I really dont enjoy this but I have run out of patience with people who push extreme agendas and try shame others into complying.
I Agree
 
Says one anonymous forum poster on the internet to another, as he runs out of any form of coherent rebuttal. ? :rolleyes:

Edit: I really dont enjoy this but I have run out of patience with people who push extreme agendas and try shame others into complying.
Coherent rebuttals are not possible with some folks on the internet.. its a societal problem there probably isn't a cure for. There's even a joke about it: "Never argue with an idiot as they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with stupidity"

I suggested you talk to YOUR doctor.. Your idea of "extreme agenda" is severely warped. If you think someone is trying to shame you, that's something a professional mental health expert might be able to help with. Again, I suggest you consult with professional medical services.
 
Is there value in this forum becoming yet one more place that we argue about Covid-19 and cosplay as pseudo-epidemiologists?
This is not directed towards anyone in particular, it just seems like any direction you look on the internet you can find a place to argue about Covid, Vaccines, and in almost all those places minds are not being changed, everyone talks past one another, and the conversation does not remain friendly, is that something we really want here as well, where generally we all tend to get along?
 

When I hear such claims, I try to look for references, see what if anything is behind it.
Turns out this one is true.

The key contributor is probably given in the headline, that 98% of the U.K. adult population had antibodies (even though only 60% to 65% were vaccinated.)
So naturally occurring immunity from recent infection caused better antibody response than the waning immunity from vaccines given earlier.
The statistics probably also reflect that the most vulnerable had already been culled from the unvaccinated population.

However, odds of dying from Covid are substantially lower among the vaccinated.


Full disclosure: I am now vaccinated.
I was at first planning to let other people contribute to herd immunity, while I simply avoided mingling.
I didn't trust a hastily developed vaccine. I pay attention to the pressure for us to take annual flu vaccine even though not very effective, and I want to avoid adjuvants. Some earlier vaccines had high rate of serious side effects.
But, I learned that mRNA vaccines have been under development for many years, and have now had veterinary use for a number of years.
I read the test reports on Pfizer and was impressed.

I avoid following bad advice from government and other sources. I did not get the second shot 3 weeks after the first. Before the 2nd dose was due, I managed to book a shot at 5.5 weeks. I then booked one at 12 weeks, but out of concern for the coming Delta, I got my 2nd at 5.5 weeks. (minor flu like symptoms on second day.)

Thus far, I'm not anxious to get a booster. If I decided to, it would be regardless of FDA, CDC, WHO, or other authorization.
Moderna effectiveness wanes more slowly? Could be the 3x larger dose. Could be the 4 weeks to second shot vs. 3 weeks. (do we have any data based on Walmart's having "improperly" given Pfizer doses at 4 weeks for a while?)
I knew that U.K. reported 3x stronger response with 12 weeks vs. 3, so I was ignoring FDA recommendations based on data. I'm still considered properly vaccinated by their standards, because they had data on 3 to 6 weeks and knew any in that range provided immunity.

We get a lot of lies. When I first read of Bell's Palsy, I looked up prevalence and understood one nurse exhibiting it didn't mean the vaccine caused it.
We were told there were several cases in the test group, but that it was the expected background number.
Out of 35,000 people vaccinated with either Moderna or Pfizer, there were 7 cases of Bells Palsy. Out of the placebo group there was only 1??
I've since read more on that. Out of 35,000 people, 7 cases of Bells Palsy is the expected number. For an entire year. In 2 months, the expected number is 1.4; the single case in control group in 2 months was the real expected number. The 7 cases in the vaccinated group was 5x expected number.

I don't know if they were lying to us, or were incompetent in statistics. I'm inclined to think the latter.
Getting the mRNA shot causes a one-time increase in risk of Bell's Palsy, equivalent to living another year.
Being unvaccinated can protect you from Bell's Palsy - you might die before living a year and having the opportunity to experience it.

My wife's religious organization (Jehovah's Witnesses) reported earlier in the year they had 17,000 Covid deaths worldwide (that's 0.2% of membership).
They just reported that since June in the U.S., 1000 hospitalizations and 450 deaths. Just 1% of each of those was the vaccinated.
Very good numbers, but what I don't have is vaccination rate, to convert that to "per 100,000" or other meaningful figures.
Prior to this announcement, the organization had neither recommend getting vaccination or not, simply noted that none of the vaccines offered in the U.S. contained blood or were otherwise considered forbidden. They still say it is a personal choice, simply presented the statistics they had.
Thanks for posting this, and for your logical analysis. I was leaning away from a booster and while i did not wait the 5.5 weeks, i feel confident about my own immune system, at this point.
 
Is there value in this forum becoming yet one more place that we argue about Covid-19 and cosplay as pseudo-epidemiologists?
This is not directed towards anyone in particular, it just seems like any direction you look on the internet you can find a place to argue about Covid, Vaccines, and in almost all those places minds are not being changed, everyone talks past one another, and the conversation does not remain friendly, is that something we really want here as well, where generally we all tend to get along?
We don't want to go back to being "over moderated." Some of this is very dis-tasteful, but it did prompt me into doing more research and getting myself more prepared in case myself or my wife get Covid.
It is in the ChitChat forum where greater levity should be allowed.

The Delta variant has changed my overall strategy of dealing with Covid.
 
We don't want to go back to being "over moderated."
Was this an issue at some point on this forum?

In either case, at this point, I'm just posing it as a question to consider.
Particularly as it feels the thread is slowly taking on a less and less respectful/more argumentative tone (this doesn't apply to everyone, but enough people that its degrading the discourse). Mutual respect and a friendly community spirit on this forum are things I care about and feel protective of (beyond just my role as a moderator here). Every other forum I am a member of where people start debating what is and isn't true about Covid, Vaccines, the Gov't, etc, it always inevitably degrades into bickering and disrespect, that has ripple effects beyond just that particular thread.

I'm not currently weighing in on whether its an acceptable topic, just advocating that everyone participating, reflect on their purpose for posting, their tone, what the negative and positive impact their comment may have. More good faith discussion less debating, more listening less telling, and more humility and recognition that while we are all entitled to our opinions, almost none of us are qualified/informed enough to be as confident as we probably feel in our own understanding/opinion.

Probably I am acutely sensitive to this at the moment, since having left for ~6 mo. and came back, my impression is that there has been a small but noticeable degradation in the tone and closeness of the community (part of this is probably an inevitability of a growing forum).

To those who want to, carry on, just be civil, and approach with openness and humility.
 
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Was this an issue at some point on this forum?

In either case, at this point, I'm just posing it as a point to ponder. Particularly as it feels the thread is slowly taking on a less and less respectful/more argumentative tone (this doesn't apply to everyone, but enough people that its degrading the discourse). Mutual respect and a friendly community spirit on this forum are things I care about and feel protective of (beyond just my role as a moderator here). Every other forum I am a member of where people start debating what is and isn't true about Covid, Vaccines, the Gov't, etc, it always inevitably degrades into bickering and disrespect, that has ripple effects beyond just that particular thread.

I'm not currently weighing in on whether its an acceptable topic, just advocating that everyone participating, reflect on their purpose for posting, their tone, what the negative and positive impact their comment may have. More good faith discussion less debating, more listening less telling, and more humility and recognition that while we are all entitled to our opinions, almost none of us are qualified/informed enough to be as confident as we probably feel in our own understanding/opinion.

Probably I am acutely sensitive to this at the moment, since having left for ~6 mo. and came back, my impression is that there has been a noticeable degradation in the tone and closeness of the community (part of this is probably an inevitability of a growing forum).

To those who want to, carry on, just be civil, and approach with openness and humility.

I think I'm one of the posters who are guilty of being.. ahem.. less than friendly with certain subjects. And for that, I apologize and will attempt to be less confrontational.

In my older age, I am finding that I have less patience for stupid.. less patience for people making snake oil claims, and less patience for the utterly idiotic things people push.
I'm also finding that I seem to care more about others than I did in my younger years. Having my own child, seeing kids harmed by others has an emotional effect on me now.. and seeing vulnerable folks being tricked and prayed on gets me fired up.
I think the technical term for this is "Grumpy old man".

One other consideration.. certain segments of our population view being nice as a weakness to be taken advantage of, and its a growing segment. Their mode of operation is a sort of "best defense is a good offense", and being nice will just get you stepped on.
 
One other consideration.. certain segments of our population view being nice as a weakness to be taken advantage of, and its a growing segment. Their mode of operation is a sort of "best defense is a good offense", and being nice will just get you stepped on.
I go with Roosevelt on this one. "Talk softly and carry a big stick"
 
I think I'm one of the posters who are guilty of being.. ahem.. less than friendly with certain subjects. And for that, I apologize and will attempt to be less confrontational.

In my older age, I am finding that I have less patience for stupid.. less patience fo

Here you go again, just stop it!
 
Was this an issue at some point on this forum?

In either case, at this point, I'm just posing it as a question to consider.
Particularly as it feels the thread is slowly taking on a less and less respectful/more argumentative tone (this doesn't apply to everyone, but enough people that its degrading the discourse). Mutual respect and a friendly community spirit on this forum are things I care about and feel protective of (beyond just my role as a moderator here). Every other forum I am a member of where people start debating what is and isn't true about Covid, Vaccines, the Gov't, etc, it always inevitably degrades into bickering and disrespect, that has ripple effects beyond just that particular thread.

I'm not currently weighing in on whether its an acceptable topic, just advocating that everyone participating, reflect on their purpose for posting, their tone, what the negative and positive impact their comment may have. More good faith discussion less debating, more listening less telling, and more humility and recognition that while we are all entitled to our opinions, almost none of us are qualified/informed enough to be as confident as we probably feel in our own understanding/opinion.

Probably I am acutely sensitive to this at the moment, since having left for ~6 mo. and came back, my impression is that there has been a small but noticeable degradation in the tone and closeness of the community (part of this is probably an inevitability of a growing forum).

To those who want to, carry on, just be civil, and approach with openness and humility.

Sorry for the late response ..... been out for the evening.

I think instead of punishing those who want to have a reasonable discussion by killing the thread .... consider punishing the one who goes from thread to thread spewing hate comments .... even as he pretends to apologize.
Same person who caused the other thread to have to be shut down.
 
had covid and recovered, then you're probably fine.. but until you had it and recovered, you had no information to suggest you wouldn't die and/or clog the hospital up. So basically, its like you jumped out of an airplane, and only after you started falling did you discover you had a parachute...
That isn't wise...
The post quoted started with the words, “Just facts” but you don’t reference any facts at all, just opinions.
And no logic.

Example: jumping out of an airplane with no knowledge of wearing of a parachute has a guaranteed outcome- except for the miraculous and untenable discovery of a parachute. That is on one hand illogical as any argument might be. On the other hand, anyone having barely reasonably good health has nearly zero chance of dying from Covid which negates the argument or metaphor. The FACTS are that most- over 98.x% - do not experience critical disease after contracting covid.

If you are that concerned with covid take whatever effective or superstitious measures you deem sufficient for your comfort level. Whether or not others think you are silly or wise is irrelevant.

But you shouldn’t expect or demand that others adopt your point of view. Arguing for your point of view with words like ‘stupidity’ in essence is a superiority exertion aka class judgement that in essence communicates a view that others are inferior. It’s like invoking the N word; is it the word itself that’s a problem? Or the attitude(s) behind it?
 
Will there be more deaths in NYC from city workers being kept out of work for refusing vaccine or from covid this month?
 
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