The vaccinated are more likely to catch Covid

[noenegdod]

This guy is a bit dry but presents straight up facts. It would have been valuable if the same break down that was done for the "fully vaccinated" was also presented for the rest of the classifications as well. That would have provided a more complete picture.

 

[MurphyGuy]

The post quoted started with the words, “Just facts” but you don’t reference any facts at all, just opinions.
And no logic.

Example: jumping out of an airplane with no knowledge of wearing of a parachute has a guaranteed outcome- except for the miraculous and untenable discovery of a parachute. That is on one hand illogical as any argument might be. On the other hand, anyone having barely reasonably good health has nearly zero chance of dying from Covid which negates the argument or metaphor. The FACTS are that most- over 98.x% - do not experience critical disease after contracting covid.

If you are that concerned with covid take whatever effective or superstitious measures you deem sufficient for your comfort level. Whether or not others think you are silly or wise is irrelevant.

But you shouldn’t expect or demand that others adopt your point of view. Arguing for your point of view with words like ‘stupidity’ in essence is a superiority exertion aka class judgement that in essence communicates a view that others are inferior. It’s like invoking the N word; is it the word itself that’s a problem? Or the attitude(s) behind it?

Very good. Now a simple question.

Would you drive your car or fly if you had a 2% chance of ending up in the hospital or dead?

 

[Shale MacGregor]

Very good. Now a simple question.

Would you drive your car or fly if you had a 2% chance of ending up in the hospital or dead?

You have a 1% chance of dying in a car crash, so, yeah, I'd say if you rounded it up to 1.3% or whatever, most would risk it.

 

[NwCali]

It appears properly worn N95 mask is quite effective.

Does "properly worn" mean you remove it in very controlled way (and dispose of it that way) and put it on the same and only wear it once? Most likely.

The cheap loose fitting mask everyone wears over and over and put on/remove casually probably (real world) created as many problems as they solved (if any). The only "plus" from them probably was the reminder to social distance.

I'm sure a good many people made a lot of money (and control) off those mask though.

 

[Hedges]

Would you drive your car or fly if you had a 2% chance of ending up in the hospital or dead?

You have a 1% chance of dying in a car crash, so, yeah, I'd say if you rounded it up to 1.3% or whatever, most would risk it.

Odds of dying in a car crash in 2019: 1 in 107

What Are The Odds Of Dying In A Car Crash in Florida?

Did you know that the odds of dying in a car crash are not the same for everyone? According to the National Safety Council, these odds vary based on where you live, when you travel, and which kind of vehicle you drive. Learn more here.

usalaw.com

90% of americans wear seatbelts.
Half the car crash fatalities weren't wearing seatbelts

https://www.thezebra.com/resources/research/seat-belt-statistics/

We who wear seat belts enjoy a 9x reduction in likelihood of dying in a car crash.
However, that still leaves us with ~ 1 in 200 odds of dying in a car crash, while the unbelted have about 1 in 20 odds.


They tell us flying (commercial) is safer than driving.
That is twisted statistics.
Flying is 10x safer per mile, but no safer per hour.
And that is for the average person (including 10% unbelted who make up half of car crash deaths.)
On a per-hour basis, driving while belted is half the risk of commercial air travel.

 

[Hedges]

Does "properly worn" mean you remove it in very controlled way (and dispose of it that way) and put it on the same and only wear it once? Most likely.

The cheap loose fitting mask everyone wears over and over and put on/remove casually probably (real world) created as many problems as they solved (if any). The only "plus" from them probably was the reminder to social distance.

I'm sure a good many people made a lot of money (and control) off those mask though.

If we were dealing with something more contagious like Ebola, more precautions would be needed.
Mainly I want it to catch droplets so I don't inhale them.
I do reuse the mask.
If its fibers were coated in silver, copper, or some other substance known to kill the virus, that would be better. But development requires testing and FDA approval so we have masks without such sterilizing properties.
(I noticed a placemat sticker in an airplane featured it had antimicrobial properties. Fine print: This is to protect our advertisement printing, not your health.)

I mostly pound the keys, so don't usually work up enough of a sweat for the mask to be stifling. But sometimes I exert myself a little and need to get fresh air.
A mask with exhalation valve (through minimal filter so not in violation of filtration requirement) would help.
More surface area so less restriction of airflow would help too.

It seems to me greatest chance for exposure is when breathing air shared by many people, crowded spaces. Office work, we are around fewer. Mandates are rather sweeping. In the absence of requirements otherwise, we can knock our odds of infection down considerably by protecting ourselves in higher exposure situations.

 

[noenegdod]

Very good. Now a simple question.

Would you drive your car or fly if you had a 2% chance of ending up in the hospital or dead?

The point that people are trying to get across to you that you seem to be resisting acknowledging is that that 2% you are referring to are part of a subset of the population that have an incredibly high chance of ending up in the hospital or dead.

If:

1. 50% of the population eats well, gets exercise, manages stress and is actually healthy (not, not sick yet) and has a 0% chance of severe outcome.
2. Then the other 50% of the population is presenting with co-morbidities and ill health and have a 4% chance of severe outcome.

Then:

• Group 1 does not have to do anything at all. They live their life and have in all practical terms 0 to worry about.
• Group 2 has some issues. They have demonstrated an unwillingness to take responsibility for themselves and as such they now find themselves in the situation similar to the parable about the ant and the grasshopper. They lived the "good life". They failed to do the work and experience the minor discomfort of looking after themselves or exercising the little self control to deny themselves the garbage that makes them feel good in the moment. Now, because they are afraid, they are shrieking for anyone who will listen to come and keep them safe and protect them.

You are averaging the 2 groups together and wanting to apply the same conditions to both. You are treating the group instead of the individual. This is communism.

This is one of those give a man a fish or teach them to fish moments. I will share any resource with anyone willing to listen and make a change in their lives, but they have to do the work. I will not take one step in the direction of protecting them if it is at my expense.

There are 2 basic ways of being safe. The first one is to build a wall/bubble around you and yours. The second is to be prepared and strong. I have chosen to be prepared and strong and I have protected my family only to the extent that they required at that point in time. As they grew and became more competent, I reduced the protection I provided and ensured they were strong so that they could look after themselves when I am not around.

This cultural shift of providing protection instead of teaching competence so an individual can develop strength has resulted in the weak dependent society that is now crying out in fear because they are not being looked after. The wall that the supposedly strong built around them was breached and the aggressor has entered the safe space and is feasting on the pathetic weak masses.

If instead they had built a wall but also trained the people protected by the wall to be strong and competent, a breach in the wall is far less significant. Society chose to be weak instead.

Edit in bold

 

[noenegdod]

Odds of dying in a car crash in 2019: 1 in 107

What Are The Odds Of Dying In A Car Crash in Florida?

Did you know that the odds of dying in a car crash are not the same for everyone? According to the National Safety Council, these odds vary based on where you live, when you travel, and which kind of vehicle you drive. Learn more here.

usalaw.com

90% of americans wear seatbelts.
Half the car crash fatalities weren't wearing seatbelts

https://www.thezebra.com/resources/research/seat-belt-statistics/

We who wear seat belts enjoy a 9x reduction in likelihood of dying in a car crash.
However, that still leaves us with ~ 1 in 200 odds of dying in a car crash, while the unbelted have about 1 in 20 odds.


They tell us flying (commercial) is safer than driving.
That is twisted statistics.
Flying is 10x safer per mile, but no safer per hour.
And that is for the average person (including 10% unbelted who make up half of car crash deaths.)
On a per-hour basis, driving while belted is half the risk of commercial air travel.

Facts dont lie and I am going to make 2 comparisons.

First comparison would be wearing a seatbelt to being vaccinated.

Second comparison is wearing a seatbelt to being healthy.

Difference being that being healthy protects you against not only this one but the next pandemic. Relying on vaccinations leaves you vulnerable to what ever comes next and reliant on others for safety and protection.

 

[MurphyGuy]

The point that people are trying to get across to you that you seem to be resisting acknowledging is that that 2% you are referring to are part of a subset of the population that have an incredibly high chance of ending up in the hospital or dead.

If:

1. 50% of the population eats well, gets exercise, manages stress and is actually healthy (not, not sick yet) and has a 0% chance of severe outcome.
2. Then the other 50% of the population is presenting with co-morbidities and ill health and have a 4% chance of severe outcome.

Then:

• Group 1 does not have to do anything at all. They live their life and have in all practical terms 0 to worry about.
• Group 2 has some issues. They have demonstrated an unwillingness to take responsibility for themselves and as such they now find themselves in the situation similar to the parable about the ant and the grasshopper. They lived the "good life". They failed to do the work and experience the minor discomfort of looking after themselves or exercising the little self control to deny themselves the garbage that makes them feel good in the moment. Now, because they are afraid, they are shrieking for anyone who will listen to come and keep them safe and protect them.

This is one of those give a man a fish or teach them to fish moments. I will share any resource with anyone willing to listen and make a change in their lives, but they have to do the work. I will not take one step in the direction of protecting them if it is at my expense.

There are 2 basic ways of being safe. The first one is to build a wall/bubble around you and yours. The second is to be prepared and strong. I have chosen to be prepared and strong and I have protected my family only to the extent that they required at that point in time. As they grew and became more competent, I reduced the protection I provided and ensured they were strong so that they could look after themselves when I am not around.

This cultural shift of providing protection instead of teaching competence so an individual can develop strength has resulted in the weak dependent society that is now crying out in fear because they are not being looked after. The wall that the supposedly strong built around them was breached and the aggressor has entered the safe space and is feasting on the pathetic weak masses.

If instead they had built a wall but also trained the people protected by the wall to be strong and competent, a breach in the wall is far less significant. Society chose to be weak instead.

Wow.. It is profoundly disturbing that someone thinks like that... To hell with Group 2, its their own fault eh? Old people, someone with cancer, someone born with medical issues, etc.. Do you have parents or grandparents who are old? Let them die eh?

This is why I'm a prepper.. the insight into the disturbing way people rationalize things is alarming.

 

[noenegdod]

Wow.. It is profoundly disturbing that someone thinks like that... To hell with Group 2, its their own fault eh? Old people, someone with cancer, someone born with medical issues, etc.. Do you have parents or grandparents who are old? Let them die eh?

This is why I'm a prepper.. the insight into the disturbing way people rationalize things is alarming.

This is irrational. To a large extent, yes, it is their own fault and it is up to them to dig themselves out of the hole. I NEVER SAID TO HELL WITH GROUP 2. Quite to the contrary, I said I would help them with resources. But, they have to get off their lazy a$$ and do the work. I am not lifting a finger to help anyone that wont help themselves.

 

[noenegdod]

Do you have parents or grandparents who are old? Let them die eh?

I am going to address this question separately.

Grandparents on both sides are dead. They all worked very hard until the day they died with one exception, a stroke, and she spend a miserable 11 years in a care facility. They worked very hard providing for and ensuring that their kids went without nothing.

My parents are useless. Struggle with any difficulty that presents itself, blame everyone around them for anything that doesnt go their way and curl up on the corner and shut down if there is a little pressure.

The strength and unlimited protection and resources provided by my grandparents created my weak and pathetic parents, which created me and I will not repeat the cycle. I have not spoken to them for many years and probably never will again. Simply being around them makes me weak and I feel the draw of the pathetic whiny victimhood mentality they lived their entire life with.

Let them die? I tried for years at the expense of my own personal life to try to "save them". I finally came to the realization they need to want it before its too late to make the change. They chose it. Not me. I mourned their loss several years ago.

 

[NwCali]

Group 2 has some issues

Yeppers!

 

[MurphyGuy]

I am going to address this question separately.

Grandparents on both sides are dead. They all worked very hard until the day they died with one exception, a stroke, and she spend a miserable 11 years in a care facility. They worked very hard providing for and ensuring that their kids went without nothing.

My parents are useless. Struggle with any difficulty that presents itself, blame everyone around them for anything that doesnt go their way and curl up on the corner and shut down if there is a little pressure.

The strength and unlimited protection and resources provided by my grandparents created my weak and pathetic parents, which created me and I will not repeat the cycle. I have not spoken to them for many years and probably never will again. Simply being around them makes me weak and I feel the draw of the pathetic whiny victimhood mentality they lived their entire life with.

Let them die? I tried for years at the expense of my own personal life to try to "save them". I finally came to the realization they need to want it before its too late to make the change. They chose it. Not me. I mourned their loss several years ago.

That explains a lot.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Very good. Now a simple question.

Would you drive your car or fly if you had a 2% chance of ending up in the hospital or dead?

I am not college degrees intellectual or a PhD so I don’t have all the fun little labels that lawyers and other debate-class folks use to describe things factually inarguable due to lack of tenets.

The “if” isn’t based in verifiable circumstances (data). As others have posted the ‘argument’ is impaired due to facts unskewed by a presupposed intent.

I drive ~6000 miles a month for work. My risk factor there is fairly high compared to means and averages.
I haven’t quit my job.

Does that answer your question?

Total disclosure:
I have issues with anxiety. With further effort on my part I would likely be diagnosed with some related causally pertinent ’things.’
I am aware of my ‘stuff’ and quite aware of triggers and whatever but I’m also quite functional because I know myself (now) and never “crutch” or whine.

Let’s just say I know things about irrational fear…

Covid could quite readily amp my anxiety - if I let it. My emotions may be of fear, but real data and non-political medical information engage my intellect telling me TRUTH instead of fear/falsehoods.

I’m not going to run around in fear or entertain theoretical situations and effectually make my life worse. Flying, driving… not even related to covid but I think I recall one study that suggested a risk of death rate for driving as double that of my risk of death from covid IF I was over 65.

Running around with a niosh paint spray respirator? Ain’t gonna happen.

That explains a lot.

That is an insult and an insensitive crass statement.

I was learning stuff in this thread and hopefully ‘influencing’ some folks to think more about vocalizing issues of survival treatment and recovery from covid along with the dubious vaccine solutions. Survival trumps a vaccine that may or may not protect people.

I’m out of this thread. May God grant you the blessing of living your life covid free.

 

[Shale MacGregor]

If:

1. 5% of the population eats well, gets exercise, manages stress and is actually healthy (not, not sick yet) and has a 0% chance of severe outcome.
2. Then the other 95% of the population is presenting with co-morbidities and ill health and have a ~2% chance of severe outcome.

Then:

• Group 1 does not have to do anything at all. They live their life and have in all practical terms 0 to worry about.
• Group 2 has some issues. They have demonstrated an unwillingness to take responsibility for themselves and as such they now find themselves in the situation similar to the parable about the ant and the grasshopper. They lived the "good life". They failed to do the work and experience the minor discomfort of looking after themselves or exercising the little self control to deny themselves the garbage that makes them feel good in the moment. Now, because they are afraid, they are shrieking for anyone who will listen to come and keep them safe and protect them.

This breakdown seems more realistic than your 50/50 one. In this case the majority sets the rules and you get stuck following them despite being a superior physical specimen who flagellates himself with a strict diet and exercise routine, maintaining his body in peak shape and immune system honed to a razor's edge, prepared to slice any bacterial or viral threat to shreds.

Welcome to the land of the fat, lazy, needy, bleeding hearts who thanks to being a majority have control over policy.

 

[noenegdod]

This breakdown seems more realistic than your 50/50 one.

For sure! 50/50 was just easier to do the math in my head

In this case the majority sets the rules and you get stuck following them despite being a superior physical specimen who flagellates himself with a strict diet and exercise routine, maintaining his body in peak shape and immune system honed to a razor's edge, prepared to slice any bacterial or viral threat to shreds.

Bahaha That was awesome. I had to go watch this after reading that:

The first few comments are priceless

Welcome to the land of the fat, lazy, needy, bleeding hearts who thanks to being a majority have control over policy.

It truly is sad.

 

[MurphyGuy]

That is an insult and an insensitive crass statement.

I was learning stuff in this thread and hopefully ‘influencing’ some folks to think more about vocalizing issues of survival treatment and recovery from covid along with the dubious vaccine solutions. Survival trumps a vaccine that may or may not protect people.

I’m out of this thread. May God grant you the blessing of living your life covid free.

It wasn't meant to be an insult by any means.. it was just a statement to express my understanding and acknowledgement of where you're coming from when you express opinions on the covid issue.

The fact that you took it as an insult, while unexpected, verifies my understanding as being correct.

 

[noenegdod]

I am not college degrees intellectual or a PhD so I don’t have all the fun little labels that lawyers and other debate-class folks use to describe things factually inarguable due to lack of tenets.

The “if” isn’t based in verifiable circumstances (data). As others have posted the ‘argument’ is impaired due to facts unskewed by a presupposed intent.

I drive ~6000 miles a month for work. My risk factor there is fairly high compared to means and averages.
I haven’t quit my job.

Does that answer your question?

Total disclosure:
I have issues with anxiety. With further effort on my part I would likely be diagnosed with some related causally pertinent ’things.’
I am aware of my ‘stuff’ and quite aware of triggers and whatever but I’m also quite functional because I know myself (now) and never “crutch” or whine.

Let’s just say I know things about irrational fear…

Covid could quite readily amp my anxiety - if I let it. My emotions may be of fear, but real data and non-political medical information engage my intellect telling me TRUTH instead of fear/falsehoods.

I’m not going to run around in fear or entertain theoretical situations and effectually make my life worse. Flying, driving… not even related to covid but I think I recall one study that suggested a risk of death rate for driving as double that of my risk of death from covid IF I was over 65.

Running around with a niosh paint spray respirator? Ain’t gonna happen.


That is an insult and an insensitive crass statement.

I was learning stuff in this thread and hopefully ‘influencing’ some folks to think more about vocalizing issues of survival treatment and recovery from covid along with the dubious vaccine solutions. Survival trumps a vaccine that may or may not protect people.

I’m out of this thread. May God grant you the blessing of living your life covid free.

@12VoltInstalls I just wanted to make sure you actually got this incase you unsubscribed from the thread.

I was on a rocket ship until I was in my mid-late 20s. Unstoppable at anything I did. The wheels came off rather quickly after that and I was miserable for 10-15 years. Officially diagnosed by a psychiatrist with depression, anxiety and ADHD.

I had the symptoms and I guess you could argue the diagnosis was accurate based on the presence of symptoms but the treatment was BS.

If you look at how those issues are treated and distill it down to its simplest components, you realize that it would appear that they are treating deficiencies. It appears as though the psychiatrist believed I was deficient in serotonin reuptake inhibitors and Ritalin

Obviously that is just a joke but all they were doing was treating symptoms. The underlying issues persisted and the drugs did literally nothing as a result. After perusing a solution for over 10 years, a significant change in diet, a return to exercise and the start of a meditation practice turned my life around over the course of a week.

If you or anyone else wants to discuss anything or would like links to the people and recourses I used and still use to turn my life around, I find nothing more satisfying and love to share. Shoot me a PM.

 

[noenegdod]

It wasn't meant to be an insult by any means.. it was just a statement to express my understanding and acknowledgement of where you're coming from when you express opinions on the covid issue.

The fact that you took it as an insult, while unexpected, verifies my understanding as being correct.

Your not responding to me if that was your intent..........

 

[Bob B]

For sure! 50/50 was just easier to do the math in my head



Bahaha That was awesome. I had to go watch this after reading that:

The first few comments are priceless

LOL .... Good old fashioned irreverent humor .... with some truth mixed in ..... without the need to introduce politics.

I asked a plumber who was snaking the rust out of our old cast iron sewage pipe if he ever got sick ..... he said he hadn't been sick in years.

 

[noenegdod]

LOL .... Good old fashioned irreverent humor .... with some truth mixed in ..... without the need to introduce politics.

I asked a plumber who was snaking the rust out of our old cast iron sewage pipe if he ever got sick ..... he said he hadn't been sick in years.

Tempered in raw sewage!

 

[noenegdod]

Unhealthy Foods Claim Lives:

 

[MurphyGuy]

Unhealthy Foods Claim Lives:

Unhealthy food does claim lives.. But what can be done about it?

The sugar industry is a powerful lobby.. in fact, the entire food industry has been so consolidated that their power and influence is ranked right up there with the oil and health care industries.

This is what we call free market capitalism, and the minute anyone tries to do anything about it, people start screaming about socialist tyranny. Actually, its not the people screaming, its the industries being targeted doing the screaming.. they just tell the sheepole what to think and say, and the sheep follow along like farm animals always do.

The healthcare industry LOVES the food industry, and especially the sugar folks.. the more processed food and sugar we eat, the more healthcare we need, thus increasing profits for the drug and health industries.

Its capitalism run-a-muck.. manipulated for the benefit of a few.. The only way to fix these problems is to outlaw all lobbying, but they'll never ever do that.

 

[Bob B]

Unhealthy food does claim lives.. But what can be done about it?

The sugar industry is a powerful lobby.. in fact, the entire food industry has been so consolidated that their power and influence is ranked right up there with the oil and health care industries.

This is what we call free market capitalism, and the minute anyone tries to do anything about it, people start screaming about socialist tyranny. Actually, its not the people screaming, its the industries being targeted doing the screaming.. they just tell the sheepole what to think and say, and the sheep follow along like farm animals always do.

The healthcare industry LOVES the food industry, and especially the sugar folks.. the more processed food and sugar we eat, the more healthcare we need, thus increasing profits for the drug and health industries.

Its capitalism run-a-muck.. manipulated for the benefit of a few.. The only way to fix these problems is to outlaw all lobbying, but they'll never ever do that.

Government is not the ONLY solution to problems .... Waking people up to the risks and solutions is the way it should be done. If you did anything but nitpick @noenegdod s posts you would see he is trying to share solutions that have worked for him.
Banning things never works .... Prohibition brought us organized crime ... and never stopped alcohol use .... the war on drugs brought us the gangs that are even worse.
So ... you removed the ban on alcohol .... you still have organized crime .... just doing other things. They have the network in place to do it after the ban gave them the money and the power.

 

[noenegdod]

Unhealthy food does claim lives.. But what can be done about it?

You do exactly what we are doing here. Talk about it, challenge ideas and dont let your voice be silenced. Do your best to keep an open mind have strong opinions loosely held. Share what you know with everyone around you and dont be afraid to be challenged.

I failed at this earlier and let people get under my skin. Sincerest apologies for that.