diy solar

diy solar

Van Life - Sleeping Above / Near Batteries Inverter etc

I worry about the AC equipment. Those electric fields change at 60Hz around here and can induce currents in nearby objects.
DC electrical storage is just a chemical reaction, and happens naturally in the environment. (usually leading to corrosion)

Any offgassing from the chemistry of charging/discharging a battery should be addressed. LiPO4 has minimal off gassing and gasses shouldn't build up because there is enough air exchange happening by opening doors and windows every few hours, or so.

I don't like to sleep with my inverter running, the hum may cause sleep issues, and the EM field could be bad on some level. Besides, I'm done watching TV/ surfing internet, and it's dark outside, so inside doesn't heat up much with the windows/vents open. (see battery offgassing remedies)

Fire is more of a worry for me when I go to bed. (And bugs, too!)
 
Dzl said:
Caution when it comes to health and environmental impacts is reasonable and prudent. As you have alluded to, there is sometimes a long lag of years or decades before we come to understand the implications of some new thing. At the same time its probably not productive to let vague/undefined fears dominate your thinking, without trying to untangle and develop what is and what is not realistic/possible, and what vectors for harm may or may not exist.

With LiFePO4 for example you are talking about 'actual airborne chemicals' but my understanding (as a layman) is that unless something goes very wrong (which would require multiple simultaneous failures in a well designed system), there is no venting with LiFePO4 batteries. There should be no 'actual airborne chemicals.'

That said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with erring on the side of caution, its a smart approach given limited information, if there is one thing we do in abundance on this forum, its overbuild+overthink. If you are worried about the potential for venting, you could build a battery enclosure that vents to the outside or is sealed in some way, and/or make sure there is adequate air exchange/ventilation in the living space (this is a good idea regardless).

The TL;DR is try to define the specific risks/worries then assess each of those individually rather than focusing on an amorphous idea of possible harm.
Click to expand...
In a recent Fully charged show a battery recycling firm owner claims that he can smell they different manufacturers of batteries:


It's around minute 7.
JoeHam said:
LiFePO4 should have zero off gassing.
Click to expand...
While that is true - even the plastic case off-gasses. I mean the cells are swelling and contracting.

One of the reasons I buy marine grade batteries (Chins, Amperetime etc.) - in air/water tight cases vs server rack batteries - is that I'm living a high humidity environment - and I'm more concerned about corroding the cells and connection between them. But now I'm also glad that potential off gassing is reduced.
 
BlackWaterPark said:
Yes, we are bathed in a sea of varying frequencies of energy from sound and light waves, to rf, ef, emf, etc etc. Also, cancer rates and all manner of other ailments, especially neurological and psychological, seemed to have ramped up tremendously over the decades. Maybe it's a coincidence, maybe not... If I had to wager though, I'd hazard it's an aggregate to the problem, alongside unwise farming practices, preservatives, fallout from the plastic age, etc.
Click to expand...
I don't have any electronics in my Bedroom. Even keep filament lightbulbs in the sockets in that room.

Btw I studied electrical engineering once upon a time.
Lot's of RF issues are myths, but some are replicable in cell cultures and animal models. Which usually means - that a human is not immune from that, it just takes longer, just by sheer mass of cells to be impacted.

Sirtate said:
I don't like to sleep with my inverter running, the hum may cause sleep issues, and the EM field could be bad on some level. Besides, I'm done watching TV/ surfing internet, and it's dark outside, so inside doesn't heat up much with the windows/vents open. (see battery offgassing remedies)
Click to expand...
I keep the inverter on in the Winter - to heat up the RV :p
 
12VoltInstalls said:
The increasing incidences of mental health issues within various groups probably doesn’t correlate in my opinion because of two primary factors: societal affectation and cultural nuances.
Click to expand...
Psychology is greatly influenced by biology, of course, so it would be hard for me to divorce the notion entirely. Even if relegated to ancillary or more indirect roles. The magnitude to which the issue is expressed across various cultural and geographical milieu certainly and solidly supports your points for sure.


12VoltInstalls said:
Past generations probably had similar percentages as well - with far fewer in the past developing long-term disability within society because society expected them to recover and victims believed they could and would recover.
Click to expand...
This right here ^^^. Though it's likely impossible to validate the very first part, the rest rings resoundingly true. We can clearly see the fallout from, without getting political, the sharply upward trend in coddling and, dare I say, decline of cuffings upside the head? It probably doesn't help that discovery of new mental health ailments are often incentivised, leading me to wonder what came first in some cases...the disease or the diagnosis. There's an old saying in the esoteric realms, "where focus goes, energy flows".

One things for certain..."Progress" (and progress too) often leaves a tangled, convoluted web in it's wake.
 
SacRV said:
I'd take into account the noise from your inverter. Granted it might not sound like much during the day
Click to expand...
Yup, depends on ones inverter. I have a 6kw (really a true 8kw 240v) inverter who's transformer is so well designed and wound that there is no audible hum whatsoever, which is rare for a LF unit. However, the 3 fans in it, which come on periodically even with low loads, are anything but quiet. When they first come in, it's not hard to imagine you're standing on the tarmac right next to a 747 getting ready for takeoff. Honestly, I'd be more annoyed about it if I wasn't so impressed with the sheer cfm power of these things. I swear they are as loud as my 12" vortex can-fans that I use to purify 26'x40' rooms by pulling the air through a 6' tall carbon filter. I'd imagine that would drive someone batty in an RV or tiny home. Conversely, the Samlex high freq inverters I've used, you would never even know they were on, even under nameplate rated loads.
 
Heck. Why not build yourself a faraday cage for your gear? Keeps your system's EMFs in, and protect from EMPs at the same time:) I live in a very small yurt, and am also very close to my batteries, inverter, charge controller, all with Bluetooth..... Oh, wait. Faraday cage would shut down the Bluetooth:( I guess I can always do wired monitors.
 
Rocksnsalt said:
Hello, this may sound kooky / cra cra to some… but intuitively it just seems like a bad idea to sleep directly above or near a LifeP04 battery bank and inverter etc.
Click to expand...

You're just being paranoid.

diysolarforum.com

LifeP04 meltdown in a Sprinter van ?

LiFePo4 - Catastrophic failure. Spotted on the sprinter forum today. YIKES! ? Re will it take a charge, relax… it’s a joke…
diysolarforum.com diysolarforum.com
 
Instinct tells me to be afraid of things that hum. Most people wont buy homes near high power transmission lines.
However with all the fear and paranoia people have long held about EMF, I dont think any real conclusions have been made about it. I do recall a case in Fresno CA at a school near such power lines where a startling number of teachers had similar rare cancers.
Does anyone know the outcome of that?
Half of me says follow the science, the truth is out there.
The other half of me realizes there would be such a financial catastrauphe for every industry involved if a link to deadly cancers was proven, would the truth come out?
The other half of me thinks, could they keep it a secret?
The other half of me.... LOL.
Heres a serious fallacy about any of the science to all this. We WILL absolutely see an increase in diagnosis and fatalities from all kinds of cancers in humans in the future, which will likely see correlations to every technology and substance imaginable. Especially by lawyers for plaintiffs seeking damages from anyone with deep pockets.
It would be foolish to believe higher diagnosis and fatalities mean people really are getting and dying from more cancers.
It just means we will be better at detecting them, determining cause of death, and that people are living long enough to get cancer in the first place and not dying from formerly uncurable or unavoidable reasons.
Consider that its only been several decades that CT scans and MRIs have been common and available. Xrays were useless in detecting almost any tumors.
Only the worst cancer deaths were ever even known about.
So in a decade when you see claims about 5g cancers or similar I would take it with some skepticism.

Edit: whats the official conclusion on EMF and cancer? Don't rule it out, but its not worth losing sleep over.
www.cancer.gov

Electromagnetic Fields and Cancer

A fact sheet about research on electric and magnetic fields and studies examining their potential connection with cancer.
www.cancer.gov www.cancer.gov


 
Last edited:
Batvette said:
Instinct tells me to be afraid of things that hum. Most people wont buy homes near high power transmission lines.
Click to expand...
Electric Energy flows outside of AC conductors. Called electric field:
www.quora.com

How does electricity travel along a wire? Does it pass through the inside of the wire or along the outside of the wire?

Answer (1 of 6): Electricity is the flow of fields, NOT electrons. Current don’t exist inside the conductor. Current exists OUTSIDE the space of the conductor. Following is the electric field diagram of a single current carrying conductor. The magnetic lines of force comprises the magnetic fiel...
www.quora.com www.quora.com

Electrons flow inside the conductor - Energy outside :p

So yeah, no house close to high power AC Powerline - DC the field is much much less.
Batvette said:
Consider that its only been several decades that CT scans and MRIs have been common and available. Xrays were useless in detecting almost any tumors.
Only the worst cancer deaths were ever even known about.
Click to expand...
We probably all have pre-cancerous cells a few times in our life. Still being a topic of intense research. Usually our immune system is able to detect and neutralize those. That is called "The spontaneous regression of cancer" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312698/

When you get better in detecting - you also will find cancers the body would have dealt with by itself.
The crucial thing about that is - being healthy, and having a good immune system.

DC fields are by far less reaching then AC fields. As a compromise - I would say that the battery burning down would worry me more under my bed then getting EMF problems.

Mount the inverter (AC field and hum) somewhere else - put the water tank under the bed. (better for thermal management anyhow)
 
eXodus said:
would say that the battery burning down would worry me more under my bed then getting EMF problems
Click to expand...
That’s my opinion but I’m not a scientist
Worried preppers make a lead-lined five-sided cover (bottom ventilation) to go over the top of their inverters their theory being the emf only can escape in a direction out of the living space.
My inverter was under the bed for several years with no real or imaginary shielding. Now it’s on the wall six feet from my head - still not “shielded” and I’m unconcerned.
 
Last edited:
12VoltInstalls said:
Worried preppers make a lead-lined five-sided
Click to expand...
lol, really? lead is toxic as heck and that's real and proven. They outlawed my favorite solders because of lead toxicity.
You get more health effects from the lead then from the EMF you want to shield against.

I once studied electrical engineering, half a lifetime ago. EMF is a thing, and I don't have any electronics near my bedroom, my phone is far away.
And I mounted the inverter on the other side of the RV. It's probably more psychological then physical :p but the placebo effect is also scientific accurate. If you take medication and think you will get better, you will get better. Even when it's completely useless. (https://www.health.harvard.edu/mental-health/the-power-of-the-placebo-effect)
If you think you get sick, you will get sick.
 
If your power source emits X-ray or gamma radiation, shield it with lead.
For lower frequency EM waves such as microwaves, use copper.
For low frequency magnetic fields, e.g. 60 Hz from transformer, use Mu-metal or ferrites
For infra-red and extreme heat, e.g. from combustion of lithium batteries, use asbestos inside steel (or to be more exotic, tantalum). Solid carbon can also withstand considerable heat.
For Neutrons, shield with layers of polyethylene and tungsten

If you want to pass some frequencies but block others, e.g. visible light through a window while stopping EMP or radio interference, Indium Tin Oxide on glass.
To pass visible light but block gamma or x-ray, leaded glass.
To pass visible light but block UV, amorphous glass.
To pass visible light and deep UV but have an airtight seal, use quartz glass
To pass soft X-ray, use beryllium.


Medications - I figure once you understand the placebo effect, you can get the benefit without even having to take the sugar pill.
 
12VoltInstalls said:
Funny


Only if you lick it or sniff the oxidized powder
Click to expand...
Am I the only one who realizes that most of the drinking water supplies of the United States have long been stored in reservoirs and run through rivers that while protected from various contaminants, were open to recreational fishing and hunting? Which inherently involve the unavoidable loss of massive amounts of lead in the form of fishing weights and sinkers, and birdshot from shotgun shells?
Seems to me a dirty little secret, thousands of tons of lead sitting at the bottom of our water supplies leaching into our drinking water. For as long as I remember, cities Ive lived in had public lakes that often prohibited swimmimg because that might contaminate drinking water supplies. None of them prohibited fishing in fact it was usually encouraged as they made money selling permits.
 
BlackWaterPark said:
I'd be more wary of the inverter moreso than the batteries, especially transformer based units. By their very nature, they create strong (relatively) EM fields. My inverter is a low frequency unit with a 45lb transformer in it, and it buries the needle of my Trifield T2 em/ef/rf meter within 4 feet or so. Strong magnetic fields have been linked to detrimental physiological phenomea, but generally when there are two or more EM fields which are operating in the same area, from what I've read. You might find a little research into what are known as "kreb houses" interesting, where certain houses were studied (in Germany in particular of I'm not mistaken) which had an uncanny history of high rates of cancer and other ailments, and it was found that the common thread was that they sat over or very close to crossing veins of underground water. There was also, on a related note, research into those really twisted up, super knotty, lumpy trees you see every now and again which also found a very high correlation to crossing veins of underground water, which carry electromagnetic energy (which is, I'm pretty certain, why dowsing works). I used to live in a house that way back in the yard had one of those trees, and whenever I went over and spent any amount of time next to it, I'd always feel a little nauseous...that's what got me looking into the whole matter to begin with.



Click to expand...
Correct me if mistaken but Im of the understanding that dowsing has never been shown to be anything but luck and hucksterism. My father hired a dowser when I was young came up empty. James Randi had a few dowsers apply for his million dollar challenge they failed. Anyone?
(Im an open minded skeptic who long in the past strongly believed in some pseudoscience like telepathy and even witchcraft, over the years finding its all most likely BS. I attended a seminar/retreat in the 70s for Silva Method of Mind Control but didnt realize that we had simply been tricked into doing hot readings on ourselves. I still want to believe there is something to it, or dowsing, but it always fails the scientific method)
 
Last edited:
Sojourner1 said:
If not properly built. He found the error of his build the hard way.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
However… Oh snap that’s right, when everything is installed perfectly cells or components never have the potential to fail and create a cascade of events… or simply melt themselves down catastrophically.
Seriously I get what you’re saying but sometimes shift happens. And we don’t live in a consequence / shift happens free existence.

And fwiw I don’t obsess over this possibility, it’s just something that crossed my add mind.
All good here.

Ps When I do get to building the power system in my Sprinter, I will choose not sleep with any electronics humming with 6ft of my brain if possible.
I’m going to place it toward my feet and on the other side of the van, my feet are a train wreck anyway. ??‍♂️
 
Rocksnsalt said:
Agreed.
However… Oh snap that’s right, when everything is installed perfectly cells or components never have the potential to fail and create a cascade of events… or simply melt themselves down catastrophically.
Seriously I get what you’re saying but sometimes shift happens. And we don’t live in a consequence / shift happens free existence.

And fwiw I don’t obsess over this possibility, it’s just something that crossed my add mind.
All good here.

Ps When I do get to building the power system in my Sprinter, I will choose not sleep with any electronics humming with 6ft of my brain if possible.
I’m going to place it toward my feet and on the other side of the van, my feet are a train wreck anyway. ??‍♂️
Click to expand...
Really. The one 280ah lifepo4 pack I built already and obssessed over every detail, nearly caught fire last month because the way I secured the negative out post to the enclosure allowed it to get a tad loose. The heat softened the ABS enclosure wall, allowing the post to get REALLY loose and REALLY HOT. The positive wire of the BT module cable moved while the vehicle was in motion, contacted that negative post inside the case, melted its insulation, the resulting short took out the BT module and BMS as well. I only knew because the BMS shut down discharge and wouldnt load the app.
Cascade of events could have ended worse, I had a spare BMS and BT.
Im a little scared about what I might miss next. Kind of like okay chernobyl is behind us, we learned our lesson, nuclear power is safe. Oops, now fukushima.
 
Batvette said:
involve the unavoidable loss of massive amounts of lead in the form of fishing weights and sinkers
Click to expand...
Batvette said:
Seems to me a dirty little secret, thousands of tons of lead sitting at the bottom of our water supplies leaching into our drinking water. For as long as I remember, cities Ive lived in had public lakes that often prohibited swimmimg because that might contaminate drinking water supplies.
Click to expand...
Contamination has to do with bacteria and sloughing of skin cells.

Lead does not solvent or oxidize-leach like some might propose. Lead pipes and solder on the other hand- constantly being cleaned out and into a soluble and/or suspension- creates an immediate and measurable risk. 5 micrograms is all it takes to dull the mind of a two year old which limits brain development that is not recoverable by any amount of therapy long after the body has removed the lead from the bloodstream and safely stored it in the bones. It’s a permanent learning and behavior disability that is created. The lead in most public water systems is below epa ppm guidelines.

Nevertheless, lead fishing sinkers under a certain size are banned due to ingestion by birds/waterfowl and are commonly tungsten or steel. Waterfowl hunting requires use of bismuth, steel, or tungsten? by law I think everywhere in the USA.
 
12VoltInstalls said:
Contamination has to do with bacteria and sloughing of skin cells.

Lead does not solvent or oxidize-leach like some might propose. Lead pipes and solder on the other hand- constantly being cleaned out and into a soluble and/or suspension- creates an immediate and measurable risk. 5 micrograms is all it takes to dull the mind of a two year old which limits brain development that is not recoverable by any amount of therapy long after the body has removed the lead from the bloodstream and safely stored it in the bones. It’s a permanent learning and behavior disability that is created. The lead in most public water systems is below epa ppm guidelines.

Nevertheless, lead fishing sinkers under a certain size are banned due to ingestion by birds/waterfowl and are commonly tungsten or steel. Waterfowl hunting requires use of bismuth, steel, or tungsten? by law I think everywhere in the USA.
Click to expand...
Yeah I know theyve gotten away from lead currently, just thinking about the past. When I fished as a kid I went through split shot weights like toilet paper. I also cant think of how many people are firing at waterfowl over waterways with boxes of 12g shells.
 
Batvette said:
dowsing, but it always fails the scientific method)
Click to expand...
I think dowsing works. I’m not confident, however, that it is physically definable. I have family members that can do it. I haven’t tried it nor will I.

WARNING: if you can’t tolerate temporary thread departure or non-subject irrelevant fun diatribes please skip this post. ?

I’m confident that the physical world is only one component of a trifecta of things we actually have around us.

The second component is an order “higher” and for a lay person it is most easily described as the “quantum world.” This overlaps the physical world we know in many places - though I’m convinced we only partially know about the quantum/nuclear(sub-atomic) world. We publish papers suggesting a “God particle” and other forces in the atomic world we can calculate that they exist but haven’t been able to capture and define.

The Quantum world overlaps another world “we” generally don’t acknowledge in science. Things that are very real yet defy the scientific method as we are predominantly unaware or leave unacknowledged their existence. The quantum scientists meddle in the edges of it and even conclude things about time that are likely true but leave out the possibility that some things might travel faster than the speed of light or exist everywhere without being subject to time for example.
Ever ‘round a corner and suddenly brake to slow your speed and as the corner straightened realize there’s a traffic cop checking speeds? Or be startled when we ‘feel’ something and turn to discover someone has walked up behind you unnoticed? Or read studies exploring kirlian photography?
These are the fringe of a third component of our world that quantum science overlaps but very little concretely overlaps the physical world while running through it. Lets call it the Spiritual World.
Part of the Quantum and part of the Spiritual world basically act in the four dimensions but exist both within and outside the 5th through 10th dimensions. Some might define the ‘infinity’ level- a theoretical and probable 11th dimension- as ‘spiritual’ and to a large extent they may be correct as it is likely this third component of our world is occupied by ‘spiritual’ things- but there’s likely quite a bit of spiritual things that aren’t things at all; they are nearly subconscious and exist in our mind’s self awareness and transcendental identity (some may say “soul”) and can be thought of as the 11th dimension.

We actually know nothing tangible beyond the theoretical possibilities that dimensions 5 through 10 exist; science isn’t there yet. String theory simplifies it too much because it is ‘contained’ in string theory- and by definition the tenth - and logically 11th dimension is infinite. The 11th dimension cannot be conceived because it is infinite. It is more involved in our identity/awareness than our minds and exists in at least one more place than everywhere.

That non-physical and likely 11th dimension’ that supersedes gravity and time courses over, through, past, and beside all other possible dimensions is where dowsing comes from.

That’s my theory. Any other theory that sounds similar or bears resemblance is not my material and was conceived independently of my thoughts.
 
12VoltInstalls said:
I think dowsing works. I’m not confident, however, that it is physically definable. I have family members that can do it. I haven’t tried it nor will I.

WARNING: if you can’t tolerate temporary thread departure or non-subject irrelevant fun diatribes please skip this post. ?

I’m confident that the physical world is only one component of a trifecta of things we actually have around us.

The second component is an order “higher” and for a lay person it is most easily described as the “quantum world.” This overlaps the physical world we know in many places - though I’m convinced we only partially know about the quantum/nuclear(sub-atomic) world. We publish papers suggesting a “God particle” and other forces in the atomic world we can calculate that they exist but haven’t been able to capture and define.

The Quantum world overlaps another world “we” generally don’t acknowledge in science. Things that are very real yet defy the scientific method as we are predominantly unaware or leave unacknowledged their existence. The quantum scientists meddle in the edges of it and even conclude things about time that are likely true but leave out the possibility that some things might travel faster than the speed of light or exist everywhere without being subject to time for example.
Ever ‘round a corner and suddenly brake to slow your speed and as the corner straightened realize there’s a traffic cop checking speeds? Or be startled when we ‘feel’ something and turn to discover someone has walked up behind you unnoticed? Or read studies exploring kirlian photography?
These are the fringe of a third component of our world that quantum science overlaps but very little concretely overlaps the physical world while running through it. Lets call it the Spiritual World.
Part of the Quantum and part of the Spiritual world basically act in the four dimensions but exist both within and outside the 5th through 10th dimensions. Some might define the ‘infinity’ level- a theoretical and probable 11th dimension- as ‘spiritual’ and to a large extent they may be correct as it is likely this third component of our world is occupied by ‘spiritual’ things- but there’s likely quite a bit of spiritual things that aren’t things at all; they are nearly subconscious and exist in our mind’s self awareness and transcendental identity (some may say “soul”) and can be thought of as the 11th dimension.

We actually know nothing tangible beyond the theoretical possibilities that dimensions 5 through 10 exist; science isn’t there yet. String theory simplifies it too much because it is ‘contained’ in string theory- and by definition the tenth - and logically 11th dimension is infinite. The 11th dimension cannot be conceived because it is infinite. It is more involved in our identity/awareness than our minds and exists in at least one more place than everywhere.

That non-physical and likely 11th dimension’ that supersedes gravity and time courses over, through, past, and beside all other possible dimensions is where dowsing comes from.

That’s my theory. Any other theory that sounds similar or bears resemblance is not my material and was conceived independently of my thoughts.
Click to expand...


WARNING: if you can’t tolerate temporary thread departure or non-subject irrelevant fun diatribes please skip this post. ?


Or have ever heard of quantum entanglement?

I'm starting into this movie now:
www.timeofthesixthsun.com

Time of the Sixth Sun

Join 'Time of the Sixth Sun' in a transformative journey through our enlightening documentary film and series, exploring global consciousness, spiritual awakening, and the wisdom of indigenous elders. Dive into a cinematic experience that unveils a new way to walk lightly on Earth, embracing unity,
www.timeofthesixthsun.com www.timeofthesixthsun.com
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

WorldwideDave
Other Will Prowse Topics
Replies
3
Views
169
WorldwideDave
WorldwideDave
J
Placement of lithium batteries near back of van?
Replies
7
Views
591
OffGridInTheCity
OffGridInTheCity
C
Starting over - batteries, etc - 12v? 24v? 48v?
Replies
3
Views
408
HarryN
H
B
Help with wiring up Inverter/Charger, battery, DC->DC, etc (all victron)
Replies
0
Views
391
beowulf
B
O
Solar trailer build
Replies
7
Views
903
OM617YOTA
O

diy solar

diy solar
Back
Top