WWWS (what would Will Say) EG4 vs SOK server rack battery

After watching Will's extensive review of the EG4 SR battery and some follow up with Signature Solar I was ready to get a EG4(12v 400 amp) to supplement my 2 SOK 100 amp batteries. Then he review the prototype of the SOK Server rack battery. I know there will always be some one bringing out something new and what you buy today will likely be obsolete tomorrow. The main thing that has me thinking about the SOK version is the fact that it is more user serviceable (threaded post vs welded). On the other hand EG4 is available as a 12v version while the SOK may only be in 48v. So....WWWS?

There are currently no plans for 12V version of the SOK, I asked them (current connected) last week. They are concentrating on 48V for now. It's probably the hottest part of the market, so I don't blame them for that.

The SOK appears to be completely serviceable, but I'm not sure the actual serviceability is much different between the two units. As long as you can swap out the BMS, Display and Breaker, I think that's as far as you would go with a field service issue. I just can't see trying to find a matching single cell if there was a problem, how would you locate a match for that pack?

jberger said:

There are currently no plans for 12V version of the SOK, I asked them (current connected) last week. They are concentrating on 48V for now. It's probably the hottest part of the market, so I don't blame them for that.

The SOK appears to be completely serviceable, but I'm not sure the actual serviceability is much different between the two units. As long as you can swap out the BMS, Display and Breaker, I think that's as far as you would go with a field service issue. I just can't see trying to find a matching single cell if there was a problem, how would you locate a match for that pack?

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Good points JBerger. I guess if we keep waiting for "the better mouse trap" we likely will never progress.

Wwws instead of wwjd? My God this dude is as Big a celebrity as any lmao

hey has anyone confirmed whether the SOK server rack battery will work well with the Growatt inverters? Specifically the 3000w models? I’ve heard many or most people having issues with configuring the eg4 batteries together to where they would work ideally with the growatts

Thundar said:

Wwws instead of wwjd? My God this dude is as Big a celebrity as any lmao

hey has anyone confirmed whether the S OK server rack battery will work well with the Growatt inverters? Specifically the 3000w models? I’ve heard many or most people having issues with configuring the eg4 batteries together to where they would work ideally with the growtats.

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It absolutely will. (I'm the owner of CurrentConnected, distributor of this pack), and we've tested first hand. We found many other packs are compatible with a LOT of different inverters, but they all fail when it comes to documenting how to do it. Our manual that I'm writing fully covers how to setup communication with MPP Solar, Growatt, Victron, Sol-Ark, and even Solar Assistant, all units the SOK 48v100 has been confirmed to be working with.

HighTechLab said:

It absolutely will. (I'm the owner of CurrentConnected, distributor of this pack), and we've tested first hand. We found many other packs are compatible with a LOT of different inverters, but they all fail when it comes to documenting how to do it. Our manual that I'm writing fully covers how to setup communication with MPP Solar, Growatt, Victron, Sol-Ark, and even Solar Assistant, all units the SOK 48v100 has been confirmed to be working with.

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That’s great news! Thank you for your reply Hightech! Odds are you guys will be getting my business. I would just like to see some more documentation and videos on this battery once it is actually in peoples hands. If all goes well with the first purchase I will probably order a total of at least four in the next year or two.

Just found this thread. Following as i just set up my first EG4LL on the SolArk 12k. Having minor inconsistencies and had alot of trouble figuring out how to set it up with the inverter as the Signature Solar tech didnt know some of the parameters Sol-Ark has in their configuration menus.

I've been looking at SOK and a few others. I have no idea why they stick the display right under the terminals. In fairness SOK are not the only ones.

I think this answers the question OP set out to answer with this thread.

HighTechLab said:

Schneider xw pro 6848 not powering up with eg4 lithium battery

I'd call it a battery that finally works. Or... a battery that masks some underlying problem that's still lurking in the particulars of your installation.

diysolarforum.com

I think this answers the question OP set out to answer with this thread.

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To answer the eg4 vs sok, it's a no brainer imo. Get an SOK!

There are lots of people using the eg4 lifepower battery with no issues but there is a significant number of people (myself included) who have experienced inverter startup issues with the lifepower batteries. The lifepower batteries simply will not start my inverter unless i have some additional dc source to provide power. For over two months of troubleshooting, Signature solar was never able to identify and correct the problem in my case, they simply said the battery works fine under their test bench conditions.

Hightechlab, who sells the SOK 48v battery, recognized an opportunity to proactively help the solar community and he is sending a 48v battery to test with my setup. This will ensure the SOK battery will function in real world applications and if it doesn't, he will likely be able to identify and fix the issue. This should give a great deal of confidence to anyone considering purchasing an SOK 48v battery from current connected.

I will definitely update with results of the SOK on my system.

Maybe dumb question but what does SOK stand for?

We have @Koldsimer's batteries, they run all of the schneider 5548, 6048, 6848NA and 6848 pro on hand.
One of the largest Schneider dealers in the USA (Zonna Energy) has bought thousands of packs from us since last year (BTW their wholesale price model is the best value by far on Schneider, Outback and Victron currently https://www.zonnaenergy.com/)

EG4 is 2 product lines:

-LifePower4
This is the value version, 30kwh =$8999
-the same 7000 cycles @80% DOD @5hour discharge rate,
-the same 200W pre charge capacitor for starting heavy inverters
-the BMS comms with Growatt (Others being vetted for full compatibility assurance)
-5 year warranty assures no-lemon experience on packs, our almost 40,000 pack experience has validated our quality build on the BMS and internal components.
-EG4LL
This takes a Pro approach to compare with older brands of lifepo4 30kwh =$10494
-7000 cycles @80% DOD @5hour discharge rate,
-the BMS comms with Growatt (Others being vetted for full compatibility assurance)
-200W pre charge capacitor for starting heavy inverters
-10 year warranty backed and based out of Texas with a full time staff and shop that you can call any day of the week 8-5

There are very little differences in the quality of build or frankly any attribute of the SOK vs our packs, this gear was out there, we vetted it and brought it to market to better serve our clients.
The one difference we see in the SOK is the bolting of cells, we have been down this road but as we scaled we had the factories adjust to welded connections because the reliability of resistance is superior to a bolted connection over the lifecycle in many environments that do not have perfect climate regulation, Welded connections also allow for use in RV and transport because vibrations were too risky for bolted cells.
the last bolted EG4s shipped in early 2021, we have been lucky overall so far but determined the welded assembly change was going to make sense over time as we service the warranty.

-With the LifePower4 brand we allow you to get a value price on the same gear taking the 5 year warranty approach.
-If the longer warranty matters to you the EG4LL models have an LCD on each as a perk and we think that given the fact that all the warranty profit goes to an American based company you can be more assured of the promise made at time of sale will be kept.
-Our warranty is a full replacement for either model during the period.

SOK did make the right move as a Chinese company to partner with an American company, Current Connected is doing a good job for them. I think our business model puts more of the value in the hands of Americans and make more design and support jobs here vs padding excess Chinese pockets. I would think that a current connected brand going direct may accomplish this but that is their business model to manage.

I asked the sales team in a meeting last week, we do not honestly hear about the SOK battery that often, the market is so big for a value priced solid lithium pack. What I can tell you guys is that if you choose us we will stand behind your packs and make more jobs here in the USA in doing so.

-James

I do NOT recommend the EG4 LifePower4 series of batteries....

Several people have reported issues with them starting inverters. However the EG4 LL battery BMS/Pre-charge seems to work OK with these same inverters. So either pay the premium for the EG4 LL or better yet go with SOK or another brand.

My worry is that there is really no Warranty on any make of EG4 battery.
It took 44 pages of posts to get just one owner warranty service and he lives down the road from the company and had to drive the batteries back himself. We still have others in that thread that have gotten nothing.

Signature Solar said:

The one difference we see in the SOK is the bolting of cells

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Over 20,000 SOK 12v & 24v batteries sold, which are specifically for RV's and boats where vibrations are high, we have never had a single issue with a bolted connection whatsoever. SOK also can attribute this to extreme attention to detail during assembly.

Bolts can be easily inspected and re-torqued to ensure connection strength. In fact due to the user-serviceable nature of the SOK products, a customer could do this maintenance on a scheduled basis if they were worried of this issue or their facility required such inspection. If a connection did fail causing damage, only the few parts affected would need to be replaced rather than the whole entire pack, drastically reducing downtime.

The bolted connections allow for a much thicker and far more conductive flexible copper bus bar, which more than makes up for the increased connection resistance claimed. The flexible bars also allow for far less stress on the terminals. For a laser connection, an aluminum connector must be used in order to actually get it to weld together (can't weld copper to aluminum). We all know copper is more conductive than aluminum.

When a laser weld develops a crack due to fatigue, game over. The issue now relies on warranty to deal with, assuming the company providing the warranty will honor it. It seems across the board no company wants to honor their warranty when things go wrong...

The bolted approach allows for preventative maintenance and user service whereas laser-welded connections only allow for full replacement, reactive maintenance, with serious downtime, and it requires the assumption that the company selling the product will honor fatigue cracks as a warranty issue, not blame the customer for using it in an unsuitable environment.

I bring this point up because it isn't just SOK vs EG4, it applies to all the big names, Jakiper (bolted), Trophy Battery (laser), fortress power (laser) etc....

Signature Solar said:

7000 cycles @80% DOD @5hour discharge rate

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How did you come up with this number? Has it been tested in-house? What is the remaining health of the battery after this many cycles?

Industry standard cycle figures are 100%DOD 1 hour rate, cycles until 80% health (AKA. 80% of original nameplate capacity).

@HighCountryBill @Scott Martinez @merritt2828 @Jack Rabbit Off Grid @wandertosee @Mahendra Gomanie @Purgatory @Trkarl @Koldsimer

All of us have had similar issues starting our non growatt inverters with the lifepower batteries. Some have just decided to live with the problem, some can't do anything about it because they are on the other side of the world and some of us have had some form of resolution.

Signature can make all the videos they want. I made one too- the lifepower batteries simply didn't work with my system, even when 3 other different brands and chemistries work on my setup with zero issues.

Signature Solar said:

-the same 200W pre charge capacitor for starting heavy inverters

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Capacitor? Do you mean Resistor?

While the resistors may be of the same size, the BMS's are different and the LifePower4 BMS either has some settings that do not get along with some inverters or possibly an engineering flaw in the BMS/Pre-charge circuit in how it works....

Mr-Sandman said:

Capacitor? Do you mean Resistor?

While the resistors may be of the same size, the BMS's are different and the LifePower4 BMS either has some settings that do not get along with some inverters or possibly an engineering flaw in the BMS/Pre-charge circuit in how it works...

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That's great, never heard of a capacitor rated in watts...

HighTechLab said:

Over 20,000 SOK 12v & 24v batteries sold, which are specifically for RV's and boats where vibrations are high, we have never had a single issue with a bolted connection whatsoever. SOK also can attribute this to extreme attention to detail during assembly.

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HighTechLab said:

.... It seems across the board no company wants to honor their warranty when things go wrong...

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Just curious, but are you willing to tell us what the failure rate of the SOK batteries is? How does Current Connected handle warranty returns, for example, who pays shipping? By this I mean how painless (or painful) is it for the customer, if they have problems, and need to return product?

Please don't feel singled out... I am going to ask this of all the manufacturers I am considering. I don't think these are unreasonable questions given folks can be looking at $10,000+ for a new battery bank

I may be wrong (might be right too), keep in mind if you have an issue , I would think the probability would be it would only happen to one battery out of your bank. Say you have 4 , 6 , 8, 12 batteries, with failure rates kind of low for most battery manufacturers it seems, if you have one battery fail, you would only be shipping one battery for repair or replacement. With SOK, seems you can unbolt a single cell that failed, ship just the cell for repair/replacement (this is usually at manufacturers discretion in my experience with almost all warranties). Or, just ship a defective BMS back. Shipping the entire thing with metal case back shouldn't be needed or at least that's my thoughts on it. Having to pay for shipping in my opinion isn't the end of the world. $10,000 battery bank, and you have to pay $30-50 to ship a part back is like buying a $2,000 Italian suit and then asking how much does socks cost. Not picking on ya, just saying. With a welded cells I imagine you'd have to ship the entire thing back. And, its maybe even possible a manufacturer could Facetime with a customer, have you do a test or two with them on video (you be their hands), and avoid shipping anything back. The manufacturer would be able to discover the issue and maybe ship a replacement part to you without you having to ship anything back. The worst that could happen is all batteries have issues, or were damaged during shipping. In that case, you do not sign the manifest papers that the truck driver has asked you to sign upon delivery, but that's tough, but internal damage to a battery could occur and its undetected at time of delivery because you usually just open the carton to inspect for dents , etc. Truck driver wont wait for you to install and test the battery electronically. A manufacturer can usually work a claim with the shipping carrier even if you sign the truck drivers papers stating it was all there and looked okay. Concealed damage is a tough one for the manufacturer but it can sometimes/usually be done. Its much easier for a manufacturer if a customer signs the papers and puts on there "DAMAGED" if you see visual damage to the carton, or open it up while driver is standing there and if you see dents and signs of damage, mark the papers DAMAGED and sign it, take a picture of the paper with your cell phone before handing it back to the driver. You should also understand what FOB Shipping Point VERSUS FOB Destination, means in regards to shipping. It defines whos liable when it either leaves the dock, or when it arrives at its destination. Shipping expensive stuff you need to understand whos liable and which FOB determines that.

More here

Additionally I forgot to mention, with stuff that can get damaged rather easily (think electronics, or big metal cabinets that can dent when the shipping carton is dropped hard, and the shipping carton looks perfectly fine but the product thats inside buckles from inertia and dents or breaks. In that case, some people will install whats called a "shipping shock sensor" (Google it). They indicate how hard a carton was dropped. I think too, it warns the shipping companies employees that theres a sensor inside so they better handle with care. If the sensor is triggered, the company or person shipping the goods has more to stand on when going to file a claim with the shipping carrier.

Koldsimer said:

@HighCountryBill @Scott Martinez @merritt2828 @Jack Rabbit Off Grid @wandertosee @Mahendra Gomanie @Purgatory @Trkarl @Koldsimer

All of us have had similar issues starting our non growatt inverters with the lifepower batteries. Some have just decided to live with the problem, some can't do anything about it because they are on the other side of the world and some of us have had some form of resolution.

Signature can make all the videos they want. I made one too- the lifepower batteries simply didn't work with my system, even when 3 other different brands and chemistries work on my setup with zero issues.

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Yes some of us still having issues

Koldsimer said:

@HighCountryBill @Scott Martinez @merritt2828 @Jack Rabbit Off Grid @wandertosee @Mahendra Gomanie @Purgatory @Trkarl @Koldsimer

All of us have had similar issues starting our non growatt inverters with the lifepower batteries. Some have just decided to live with the problem, some can't do anything about it because they are on the other side of the world and some of us have had some form of resolution.

Signature can make all the videos they want. I made one too- the lifepower batteries simply didn't work with my system, even when 3 other different brands and chemistries work on my setup with zero issues.

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I had issues with two inverters not one.