diy solar

diy solar

WWWS (what would Will Say) EG4 vs SOK server rack battery

Over 20,000 SOK 12v & 24v batteries sold, which are specifically for RV's and boats where vibrations are high, we have never had a single issue with a bolted connection whatsoever. SOK also can attribute this to extreme attention to detail during assembly.

.... It seems across the board no company wants to honor their warranty when things go wrong...
Just curious, but are you willing to tell us what the failure rate of the SOK batteries is? How does Current Connected handle warranty returns, for example, who pays shipping? By this I mean how painless (or painful) is it for the customer, if they have problems, and need to return product?

Please don't feel singled out... I am going to ask this of all the manufacturers I am considering. I don't think these are unreasonable questions given folks can be looking at $10,000+ for a new battery bank
 
I may be wrong (might be right too), keep in mind if you have an issue , I would think the probability would be it would only happen to one battery out of your bank. Say you have 4 , 6 , 8, 12 batteries, with failure rates kind of low for most battery manufacturers it seems, if you have one battery fail, you would only be shipping one battery for repair or replacement. With SOK, seems you can unbolt a single cell that failed, ship just the cell for repair/replacement (this is usually at manufacturers discretion in my experience with almost all warranties). Or, just ship a defective BMS back. Shipping the entire thing with metal case back shouldn't be needed or at least that's my thoughts on it. Having to pay for shipping in my opinion isn't the end of the world. $10,000 battery bank, and you have to pay $30-50 to ship a part back is like buying a $2,000 Italian suit and then asking how much does socks cost. Not picking on ya, just saying. With a welded cells I imagine you'd have to ship the entire thing back. And, its maybe even possible a manufacturer could Facetime with a customer, have you do a test or two with them on video (you be their hands), and avoid shipping anything back. The manufacturer would be able to discover the issue and maybe ship a replacement part to you without you having to ship anything back. The worst that could happen is all batteries have issues, or were damaged during shipping. In that case, you do not sign the manifest papers that the truck driver has asked you to sign upon delivery, but that's tough, but internal damage to a battery could occur and its undetected at time of delivery because you usually just open the carton to inspect for dents , etc. Truck driver wont wait for you to install and test the battery electronically. A manufacturer can usually work a claim with the shipping carrier even if you sign the truck drivers papers stating it was all there and looked okay. Concealed damage is a tough one for the manufacturer but it can sometimes/usually be done. Its much easier for a manufacturer if a customer signs the papers and puts on there "DAMAGED" if you see visual damage to the carton, or open it up while driver is standing there and if you see dents and signs of damage, mark the papers DAMAGED and sign it, take a picture of the paper with your cell phone before handing it back to the driver. You should also understand what FOB Shipping Point VERSUS FOB Destination, means in regards to shipping. It defines whos liable when it either leaves the dock, or when it arrives at its destination. Shipping expensive stuff you need to understand whos liable and which FOB determines that.

More here
 
Additionally I forgot to mention, with stuff that can get damaged rather easily (think electronics, or big metal cabinets that can dent when the shipping carton is dropped hard, and the shipping carton looks perfectly fine but the product thats inside buckles from inertia and dents or breaks. In that case, some people will install whats called a "shipping shock sensor" (Google it). They indicate how hard a carton was dropped. I think too, it warns the shipping companies employees that theres a sensor inside so they better handle with care. If the sensor is triggered, the company or person shipping the goods has more to stand on when going to file a claim with the shipping carrier.
 
@HighCountryBill @Scott Martinez @merritt2828 @Jack Rabbit Off Grid @wandertosee @Mahendra Gomanie @Purgatory @Trkarl @Koldsimer

All of us have had similar issues starting our non growatt inverters with the lifepower batteries. Some have just decided to live with the problem, some can't do anything about it because they are on the other side of the world and some of us have had some form of resolution.

Signature can make all the videos they want. I made one too- the lifepower batteries simply didn't work with my system, even when 3 other different brands and chemistries work on my setup with zero issues.
Yes some of us still having issues
 
Last edited:
@HighCountryBill @Scott Martinez @merritt2828 @Jack Rabbit Off Grid @wandertosee @Mahendra Gomanie @Purgatory @Trkarl @Koldsimer

All of us have had similar issues starting our non growatt inverters with the lifepower batteries. Some have just decided to live with the problem, some can't do anything about it because they are on the other side of the world and some of us have had some form of resolution.

Signature can make all the videos they want. I made one too- the lifepower batteries simply didn't work with my system, even when 3 other different brands and chemistries work on my setup with zero issues.
I had issues with two inverters not one.
 
Over 20,000 SOK 12v & 24v batteries sold, which are specifically for RV's and boats where vibrations are high, we have never had a single issue with a bolted connection whatsoever. SOK also can attribute this to extreme attention to detail during assembly.

Bolts can be easily inspected and re-torqued to ensure connection strength. In fact due to the user-serviceable nature of the SOK products, a customer could do this maintenance on a scheduled basis if they were worried of this issue or their facility required such inspection. If a connection did fail causing damage, only the few parts affected would need to be replaced rather than the whole entire pack, drastically reducing downtime.

The bolted connections allow for a much thicker and far more conductive flexible copper bus bar, which more than makes up for the increased connection resistance claimed. The flexible bars also allow for far less stress on the terminals. For a laser connection, an aluminum connector must be used in order to actually get it to weld together (can't weld copper to aluminum). We all know copper is more conductive than aluminum.

When a laser weld develops a crack due to fatigue, game over. The issue now relies on warranty to deal with, assuming the company providing the warranty will honor it. It seems across the board no company wants to honor their warranty when things go wrong...

The bolted approach allows for preventative maintenance and user service whereas laser-welded connections only allow for full replacement, reactive maintenance, with serious downtime, and it requires the assumption that the company selling the product will honor fatigue cracks as a warranty issue, not blame the customer for using it in an unsuitable environment.

I bring this point up because it isn't just SOK vs EG4, it applies to all the big names, Jakiper (bolted), Trophy Battery (laser), fortress power (laser) etc....
No standard user is re-opening their packs after install, bolts have the potential to loosen, welds do not.
No circumstances should a new cell be mixed with an old, any company that does that is not professional.
we expect that in the cases of failure the packs will be reclaimed, and binned according to resistance, then the units can be reassembled as refurbished and resold.
Of the 100 courtesy return/exchanges we have done only one was a cell issue.
No cracked welds in our history, don't even know how that would happen if not a red herring in this convo
We've been on the bolt side of the fence and got off of it, if you're focused on long term you should too.
 
give us specifics please
You want me to do that again and again.??.
Just asking the same in a diffrent thread come on this is unprofessional .
 
You want me to do that again and again.??.
Just asking the same in a diffrent thread come on this is unprofessional .
I've specifically asked people with this issue to message me so I can troubleshoot. I've gone through and verified you have not messaged me. 90% of your posts are simply bashing our company instead of offering any practical solutions. Here it is again: Message me directly with your issue and we will troubleshoot. I'm ready to look at pictures of your set ups, videos of the issue, and help. Feel free to PM me or post here with any information and evidence. Happy to work with you.
 
Just curious, but are you willing to tell us what the failure rate of the SOK batteries is? How does Current Connected handle warranty returns, for example, who pays shipping? By this I mean how painless (or painful) is it for the customer, if they have problems, and need to return product?

Please don't feel singled out... I am going to ask this of all the manufacturers I am considering. I don't think these are unreasonable questions given folks can be looking at $10,000+ for a new battery bank
I'm glad you asked! Luckily we've been refining our process over the few thousand 12/24v SOK batteries we've already sold, and we think we've got this going pretty smooth by now...Especially compared to the competition.

Our office line is (725) 258-2700. First thing we do is get on the phone and discuss the problem to troubleshoot. Emails suck and take too long, and can be lost in spam folders, so we really prefer to call and have a person to person conversation. Our priority #1 is to fix the issue as quickly and painlessly as possible. We also have done facetime/video calls in the past to get a better idea of what's going on.

Often times by working through the installation over the phone we can find a parameter set incorrectly, or something simple to get the system back up and running. This is why we have trained our team on various different pieces of gear and have highly qualified engineers at our disposal, because more often than not, it's an issue with the implementation with the system that is easy to fix, rather than an actual fault / failure with the battery. We wouldn't want to get the battery back on our bench to find out nothing is wrong with it and we've just wasted a ton of time and money on shipping and the new batteries have the same problem!

If we can fix it, great! If the issue is identified as a real fault with the battery, then there are two routes the warranty can take, based on the customer's strengths and comfort level of course. We proceed as follows:

For example purposes, let's say a BMS failed regardless of if the customer caused the fault or not. This is rare, but the most likely circumstance as we use very high quality cells. If a customer feels that they can take out 13 screws, unplug 5 connectors, and disconnect 2 wires, then we will overnight (on our dime, yes, even if the customer blew up the BMS and it's their fault) a complete new front panel assembly, which includes the BMS, screen, connectors, etc. and they can swap it out the next day and be back up and running like new. The failed BMS assembly is then returned to us (with prepaid return label) for analysis and product improvement. The 10 year warranty is maintained even though the customer serviced the battery. There is no "warranty void" sticker anywhere on the battery, nor has SOK ever installed one in any of their products.

If the customer does not feel up to the task, or time isn't a constraint, we can ship the pack back to our facility for repair. The cost of this shipping however varies. If the customer is the one who caused the fault, due to improper installation or negligence, then they would be responsible for round trip shipping. If the fault is caused by a defect, flaw, or quality/workmanship issue, then we cover the round trip shipping in its entirety.
 
Hi Richard, remember when I PM'd you a practical solution for your autotransformer issue, offered help and you didn't reply or even acknowledge the suggestion? I just checked, it's still in my conversation history.
Hi Dexter, yes I still have the message as well. I'll be honest - I didn't know who you were or anything about you specifically at that time, and it was in the middle of dozens of others asking specific questions I was trying to get answers for. I appreciate that you reached out but you have to admit, the way you worded your offer was a bit off putting to an employee working at the company of the person you mention in your PM, right? That being said, I didn't really know how to respond to your message from that point of view. I'll actually send you a PM now just so maybe we can have a good relationship as members of the forum, regardless. Also - I love the fact that you are here in the middle of it with me, and your interaction on the forum is definitely the way I want to see the industry move. Cheers!
 
I woukd like to know the start up sequence
I've specifically asked people with this issue to message me so I can troubleshoot. I've gone through and verified you have not messaged me. 90% of your posts are simply bashing our company instead of offering any practical solutions. Here it is again: Message me directly with your issue and we will troubleshoot. I'm ready to look at pictures of your set ups, videos of the issue, and help. Feel free to PM me or post here with any information and evidence. Happy to work with you.
I would be posting no worries.
As soon as i have the time
 
Asu
Hi Dexter, yes I still have the message as well. I'll be honest - I didn't know who you were or anything about you specifically at that time, and it was in the middle of dozens of others asking specific questions I was trying to get answers for. I appreciate that you reached out but you have to admit, the way you worded your offer was a bit off putting to an employee working at the company of the person you mention in your PM, right? That being said, I didn't really know how to respond to your message from that point of view. I'll actually send you a PM now just so maybe we can have a good relationship as members of the forum, regardless. Also - I love the fact that you are here in the middle of it with me, and your interaction on the forum is definitely the way I want to see the industry move. Cheers!
Assumation is the mother of all mess ups

"Assume" - Ass - U- me.
Hope you guys get that
 
Over 20,000 SOK 12v & 24v batteries sold, which are specifically for RV's and boats where vibrations are high, we have never had a single issue with a bolted connection whatsoever. SOK also can attribute this to extreme attention to detail during assembly.

Bolts can be easily inspected and re-torqued to ensure connection strength. In fact due to the user-serviceable nature of the SOK products, a customer could do this maintenance on a scheduled basis if they were worried of this issue or their facility required such inspection. If a connection did fail causing damage, only the few parts affected would need to be replaced rather than the whole entire pack, drastically reducing downtime.

This actually brings up a question I was going to post so I'll ask here: Do you have any customers using the server rack SOK in a mobile workshop type setup? Would they be ok in that higher vibration environment (with proper mounting and inspection) as the 12/24 packs?
 
... If a customer feels that they can take out 13 screws, unplug 5 connectors, and disconnect 2 wires, then we will overnight (on our dime, yes, even if the customer blew up the BMS and it's their fault) a complete new front panel assembly, which includes the BMS, screen, connectors, etc. and they can swap it out the next day and be back up and running like new. The failed BMS assembly is then returned to us (with prepaid return label) for analysis and product improvement. The 10 year warranty is maintained even though the customer serviced the battery. There is no "warranty void" sticker anywhere on the battery, nor has SOK ever installed one in any of their products.

If the customer does not feel up to the task, or time isn't a constraint, we can ship the pack back to our facility for repair. The cost of this shipping however varies. If the customer is the one who caused the fault, due to improper installation or negligence, then they would be responsible for round trip shipping. If the fault is caused by a defect, flaw, or quality/workmanship issue, then we cover the round trip shipping in its entirety.
After speaking with Dexter, I went ahead and ordered 6 of the SOK batteries and a couple racks from Current Connected. I think it says something when a company will let you work on their products and still honor the warranty OR just send it to them.

I also think it says something about a company, when they will only sell you their products, if you buy the balance of the system from them. Maybe they do this because they have limited quantities, but it's just one step towards "locking" you into their product line.
 
After speaking with Dexter, I went ahead and ordered 6 of the SOK batteries and a couple racks from Current Connected. I think it says something when a company will let you work on their products and still honor the warranty OR just send it to them.

I also think it says something about a company, when they will only sell you their products, if you buy the balance of the system from them. Maybe they do this because they have limited quantities, but it's just one step towards "locking" you into their product line.
Anything you need, please let me know!

And you have a great point! We don't try to trap people with requiring them to buy the balance of the system from us because we know there are other great products that we don't carry, often times we refer customers to someone else...for example we really like the MPP Solar LV 6548 and LVX 6048, neither of which we have in stock. We really like Watts 247 and send customers there all the time because we know they also will take care of customers! We always focus on the best solution, not just "our solution".
 
I got a Sol-Ark 12K up and running 2/2022 on 3 EG4LL's open loop with no real problems. I'd love to get closed loop communications up and going but not holding my breath. Only issue I'm having is a low capacity light when my computer is connected to the BMS when batteries are charged and in stand by. Am working with Signature to try and figure that one out.
 
SOK 48v100ah battery now supports communication with SMA Sunny Island. Have been testing the last few days and finally got things working & documented

To summarize, SOK now fully supports communications AND HAS BEEN TESTED/PROVEN IN-HOUSE with:

Victron (Via GX Device)
Sol-Ark (All Models)
Growatt (Models that support protocol "L52")
MPP Solar (All 48v Models)
SMA (Sunny Island)
Solar Assistant

Xantrex/schneider systems do not support communications, as they use proprietary protocols. The battery still works in an open-loop configuration with these systems.

If you would like to see another inverter added to this list, please let me know your recommendations!

One final note; the default pre-charge settings on the SOK needed adjustment for the Sunny Island due to a massive capacitor bank. We will be continuing to test the pre-charge function and once we get the perfect setting, we will be updating the firmware on every single pack prior to shipping to ensure no problems arise in the field (and conducting field-tests with known difficult systems to confirm.) We are glad to learn from the mistakes of others, and will continue providing a solution to these nuances prior to them becoming a mess in the customer's hands.
 
SOK 48v100ah battery now supports communication with SMA Sunny Island. Have been testing the last few days and finally got things working & documented

To summarize, SOK now fully supports communications AND HAS BEEN TESTED/PROVEN IN-HOUSE with:

Victron (Via GX Device)
Sol-Ark (All Models)
Growatt (Models that support protocol "L52")
MPP Solar (All 48v Models)
SMA (Sunny Island)
Solar Assistant

Xantrex/schneider systems do not support communications, as they use proprietary protocols. The battery still works in an open-loop configuration with these systems.

If you would like to see another inverter added to this list, please let me know your recommendations!

One final note; the default pre-charge settings on the SOK needed adjustment for the Sunny Island due to a massive capacitor bank. We will be continuing to test the pre-charge function and once we get the perfect setting, we will be updating the firmware on every single pack prior to shipping to ensure no problems arise in the field (and conducting field-tests with known difficult systems to confirm.) We are glad to learn from the mistakes of others, and will continue providing a solution to these nuances prior to them becoming a mess in the customer's hands.

Dexter, what about Magnum Energy inverters? I'm specifically working with the MS4448PAE, but I thought those were like one of the old standards.
 
Back
Top