Van Conversion Wiring Diagram, Please Review

John Frum · Mar 24, 2022

dudedogvan said:
@smoothJoey Visual Diagram of your Ladder Drawing, how does it look?

Make the scc fuse 80 amps to consolidate the bom and keep less spares.

dudedogvan said:
On the positive coming out of the smartshunt to the 1A fuse on the fuse box, will I be running this wire from "VBatt +" output (green area) on the shunt?

Yes.

dudedogvan said:
On the BatteryProtect, just curious on why I'm running it to the fuse box, isn't the negative bus bar a more direct path to ground? Does it matter?

It will be easier to land the small guage wire on the fuse_block.
But if you want to find a ring terminal to fit your negative busbar it will be fine.
What busbar are you using for the negative?

dudedogvan said:
We talked earlier about putting a master switch on the battery circuit, does the 150A breaker serve as this master switch?

Yes.

dudedogvan said:
I know you fused for wire size. The 12V fridge has a 15A internal fuse. By fusing it at the fuse box, basically this means if overcurrent occurs it will blow the fuse at the fuse box and not the fuse in the fridge, making for easy fuse replacement correct? Doesn't this mean I need to use a 15A fuse instead? (fusing for the appliance, not wire size)

No the 15 amp fuse will blow but you still need a fuse at the fuse block.
Stay with the 30 amp fuse at the fuse block.

dudedogvan said:
On the same note, the manufacturer recommends a 10A fuse for the MaxxAir roof fan. Won't I want the fuse to blow just a bit above the appliance's max operating current instead of 20+A over with a 30A fuse?

The fuse protects the wire.
If MaxxAir wants a 10 fuse then feel free to use a 10 fuse for that circuit.
If you will recall I said we could tweak the circuits off the fuse block

dudedogvan said:
You're recommending buying my bus bars, MRBFs, 150A breaker, and my fuse block from waytek correct?

Yes.

dudedogvan said:
Or can I get the breaker and the fuse block from amazon?

If its the same Bluesea busbar sure.

dudedogvan said:
Also, where's the cheapest 100% copper wire and quality rings terminals? I want quality in my components, but for the best price of course!

Any pure copper fine strand wire will do as long as the insulation is rated for at least 90C.
This is the good stuff..

Amazon.com

Lets make the default branch circuit wire size 12 awg with a 20 amp fuse.
Please buy good fuses.
That means littelfuse or Bluesea.

As for ring terminals I just get them at the orange big box store.
Gardner bender have served me well.

I use a rachet crimper for ring terminals and a special ferrule crimper for up to 10 awg.
Unfortunately you will probably want to make 6 awg square crimps for the solar charge controller.
If it were me I would let the mechanical lug on the solar charge controller crimp the ferrule onto the 6 awg wires.

For the heavy guage wires use pure copper welding cable with insulation rated for 105C.
Buy quality lugs and a good crimper.

dudedogvan · Mar 24, 2022

smoothJoey said:
Make the scc fuse 80 amps to consolidate the bom and keep less spares.

Gotcha. On spare fuses, I pretty much want at least one extra fuse of any fuse size used in the system on hand correct?

smoothJoey said:
What busbar are you using for the negative?

This?

Blue Sea Systems 100 Amp Mini BusBar

smoothJoey said:
If its the same Bluesea busbar sure.

smoothJoey said:
That means littelfuse or Bluesea.

So basically stick with Blue Sea or littelfuse for breaker, bus bar, fuses, and fuse block?

dudedogvan said:
Does this switch need to be rated for 50A or just a simple toggle/rocker switch will do?

Depends on the voltage and amperage rating of your panels.
The wire will be awg so the switch should be rated for 30amps at the open circuit voltage of the string.

You said 30A switch, but the Isc of the panels in series is 10.2A. Won't a 20A dpst switch suffice?

smoothJoey said:
Lets make the default branch circuit wire size 12 awg with a 20 amp fuse.

So we're changing 10 awg wire 30A fuses from the fuse box braches to 12 awg 20A fuses? Except the Maxxair circuit will be a 10A fuse correct?

John Frum · Mar 24, 2022

dudedogvan said:
Gotcha. On spare fuses, I pretty much want at least one extra fuse of any fuse size used in the system on hand correct?

Yes

dudedogvan said:
This?

Blue Sea Systems 100 Amp Mini BusBar

Not good.
You need a busbar of at least 150 amps.

dudedogvan said:
So basically stick with Blue Sea or littelfuse for breaker, bus bar, fuses, and fuse block?

BEP is also good.
Also Eaton, Bussman and Mechanical products.

dudedogvan said:
Depends on the voltage and amperage rating of your panels.
The wire will be awg so the switch should be rated for 30amps at the open circuit voltage of the string.

You said 30A switch, but the Isc of the panels in series is 10.2A. Won't a 20A dpst switch suffice?

Sure.

dudedogvan said:
So we're changing 10 awg wire 30A fuses from the fuse box braches to 12 awg 20A fuses? Except the Maxxair circuit will be a 10A fuse correct?

Yes.
And the shunt positive will be something like 16 awg with a 1 amp fuse.

For the heavy guage wire I suggest you buy one colour and use colored electrical tape to mark polarity.

John Frum · Mar 24, 2022

This is a good busbar for your system.

MaxiBus 250A BusBar - Four 5/16"-18 Studs - Blue Sea Systems

Insert-molded stainless steel studs an optional fully enclosed insulating base and cover.

www.bluesea.com

dudedogvan · Mar 24, 2022

smoothJoey said:
For the heavy guage wire I suggest you buy one colour and use colored electrical tape to mark polarity.

Great suggestion, keep that cost down

smoothJoey said:
This is a good busbar for your system.

smoothJoey said:
Not good.
You need a busbar of at least 150 amps.

Thanks for the correction.

Ok this is what I've got with our corrections! Look good?

}
dc_domain {
busbars {
positive {
004|UUU|<->150A_breaker<->battery
006|080|<-scc<-dpst(20A)<-panels(10awg)
006|080|->battery_protect->fuse_block.feeders
}
negative {
004|UUU|<->shunt<->battery
006|UUU|->scc->dpst(20A)->panels(10awg)
006|UUU|<-fuse_block.feeders
016|UUU|<->chassis_bond
}
}
fuse_block {
feeders {
positive@
negative@
}
branches {
positive {
012|010|->fan
012|020|->fridge
012|020|->combo socket
012|020|->combo socket
016|001|->shunt_positive
}
negative {
012|UUU|<-fan
012|UUU|<-fridge
012|UUU|<-combo_socket
012|UUU|<-combo_socket
016|UUU|<-battery_protect_ground
}
}
}
}

John Frum · Mar 24, 2022

dudedogvan said:
Great suggestion, keep that cost down

Thanks for the correction.

Ok this is what I've got with our corrections! Look good?

}
dc_domain {
busbars {
positive {
004|UUU|<->150A_breaker<->battery
006|080|<-scc<-dpst(20A)<-panels(10awg)
006|080|->battery_protect->fuse_block.feeders
}
negative {
004|UUU|<->shunt<->battery
006|UUU|->scc->dpst(20A)->panels(10awg)
006|UUU|<-fuse_block.feeders
016|UUU|<->chassis_bond
}
}
fuse_block {
feeders {
positive@
negative@
}
branches {
positive {
012|010|->fan
012|020|->fridge
012|020|->combo socket
012|020|->combo socket
016|001|->shunt_positive
}
negative {
012|UUU|<-fan
012|UUU|<-fridge
012|UUU|<-combo_socket
012|UUU|<-combo_socket
016|UUU|<-battery_protect_ground
}
}
}
}

looks correct.

dudedogvan · Mar 24, 2022

smoothJoey said:
looks correct.

Alright @smoothJoey as long as we're 100%, this is what I'm gonna use, and thus I'm going to start sourcing and ordering components.

John Frum · Mar 24, 2022

dudedogvan said:
Alright @smoothJoey as long as we're 100%, this is what I'm gonna use, and thus I'm going to start sourcing and ordering components.

Were you able to source one of these https://www.bluesea.com/products/5196/MRBF_Surface_Mount_Fuse_Block_-_Common_Source ?

John Frum · Mar 24, 2022

What breaker did you go with?

dudedogvan · Mar 24, 2022

smoothJoey said:
Were you able to source one of these

Looks like $60 from West Marine. Maybe I can find one cheaper somewhere else.

smoothJoey said:
What breaker did you go with?

Probably looking like this:

Blue Sea Systems 7035 187 Series

Something else, since we went with a design that allows me to easily add an inverter in the future if desired, what will I do to install that? Probably 6 awg positive to positive bus bar with MRBF at whatever size fuse manufacturer recommends and 6 awg to negative bus bar right?
Of course wire size depends on inverter size but I wouldn't put more than a 1000w inverter in this system without increasing my max discharge capacity on my battery bank by adding another battery.

John Frum · Mar 24, 2022

dudedogvan said:
Looks like $60 from West Marine. Maybe I can find one cheaper somewhere else.

Amazon.com has it.

dudedogvan said:
Probably looking like this:

Blue Sea Systems 7035 187 Series

Good choice.

dudedogvan said:
Something else, since we went with a design that allows me to easily add an inverter in the future if desired, what will I do to install that? Probably 6 awg positive to positive bus bar with MRBF at whatever size fuse manufacturer recommends and 6 awg to negative bus bar right?

For a 1000 watt inverter use 4 awg and a 125 amp fuse.

MRBF Terminal Fuse - 125A - Blue Sea Systems

Space-saving ignition protected fuse for 30 to 300 Amp loads. Must use with Terminal Fuse Block.

www.bluesea.com

We will slightly break our own rule so that a fault can be isolated to the inverter circuit.
In other words we want the fuse on the inverter branch to have a chance to blow first, thus preserving the main breaker.
If you get the inverter you will probably want to add another sok 206 in parallel.

John Frum · Mar 24, 2022

Post pictures of the finished product please.

dudedogvan · Mar 24, 2022

smoothJoey said:
We will slightly break our own rule so that a fault can be isolated to the inverter circuit.
In other words we want the fuse on the inverter branch to have a chance to blow first, thus preserving the main breaker.
If you get the inverter you will probably want to add another sok 206 in parallel.

Gotcha

smoothJoey said:
Post pictures of the finished product please.

Will do

dudedogvan · Mar 24, 2022

@smoothJoey
Another one: What advantage does the smartprotect provide if there's already a 150A breaker on the battery? Doesn't the breaker protect the battery from overcurrent already?

John Frum · Mar 24, 2022

dudedogvan said:
@smoothJoey
Another one: What advantage does the smartprotect provide if there's already a 150A breaker on the battery? Doesn't the breaker protect the battery from overcurrent already?

The smart battery protect is only protecting the fuse block circuit.
Also I don't trust fet based over-current protection whether it be a bms or a battery protect.
The smart battery protect is used for low voltage disconnect.
Set it to disconnect your loads at 12 volts.
That way your BMS should never trip on low voltage.
It can also be used to administratively disconnect your loads.

John Frum · Mar 24, 2022

When/if you get an inverter, you should get one that supports remote switching so that the battery protect can disconnect it as well without being in the high current path.
Even better is to get an inverter/charger that has its own configurable low voltage disconnect.

John Frum · Mar 24, 2022

One last thing... ya right.
Mind the stud sizes when selecting lugs and ring terminals.
The breaker you are looking at has 1/4"(m6) studs.
Everything else to the best of my knowledge has 5/16"(m8) studs.
Since this is a mobile setup we don't things to fit well so they don't come loose with vibration and such.

John Frum · Mar 24, 2022

I just noticed an error in the diagram.
The chassis bond should be 6 awg not 16 awg.

dudedogvan · Mar 24, 2022

smoothJoey said:
The smart battery protect is only protecting the fuse block circuit.
Also I don't trust fet based over-current protection whether it be a bms or a battery protect.
The smart battery protect is used for low voltage disconnect.
Set it to disconnect your loads at 12 volts.
That way your BMS should never trip on low voltage.
It can also be used to administratively disconnect your loads.

smoothJoey said:
When/if you get an inverter, you should get one that supports remote switching so that the battery protect can disconnect it as well without being in the high current path.
Even better is to get an inverter/charger that has its own configurable low voltage disconnect.

smoothJoey said:
One last thing... ya right.
Mind the stud sizes when selecting lugs and ring terminals.
The breaker you are looking at has 1/4"(m6) studs.
Everything else to the best of my knowledge has 5/16"(m8) studs.
Since this is a mobile setup we don't things to fit well so they don't come loose with vibration and such.

Got all that. Thanks.

smoothJoey said:
I just noticed an error in the diagram.
The chassis bond should be 6 awg not 16 awg.

Ok. Is 6 awg good enough or 4 awg since the battery wires are 4?

John Frum · Mar 24, 2022

dudedogvan said:
Got all that. Thanks.

Ok. Is 6 awg good enough or 4 awg since the battery wires are 4?

6 awg is fine 4 awg is better.
You can attach the bonding wire to the fuse_block feeder negative to save a spot for your inverter on the main busbar.

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