My LiFePO2 battery caught fire

rdhood said:

I think what people are saying is that an empty "cardboard box" did not do that. I'm pretty sure I could put a refrigerator box on that and it wouldn't bend or bow at all. Now, screwing too long a bolt on that such that it pierces a cell is completely possible. But a cardboard box?

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He did not specify "Empty cardboard box" Stands to reason it was not empty.

BradCagle said:

He did not specify "Empty cardboard box" Stands to reason it was not empty.

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indeed, empty was not specified. i inferred that the contents of the cardboard box contributed to the downward force on the busbar, it's quite a lever

rhino said:

Yes but then you have a mess to clean up from the foam itself.

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Better then the boat burning to the waterline ?

BradCagle said:

He did not specify "Empty cardboard box" Stands to reason it was not empty.

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I'm simply stating why people are wondering. Stating that someone put a "cardboard box " on this rather than "a heavy box full of sh..." is misleading and confusing.

Inquiring minds want to know ..... What was in the box? How much did it weigh .... approximate?

deffhaus said:

I was really proud of my DIY battery build with headway cells until I stupidly put a cardboard box on top of the batteries not paying attention to the hazard. One of the positive lug bolts pierced the thin film and the cell burst into flames. Fortunately my wife and I were close by and pulled out the burning box and batteries with only small injuries. IT COULD HAVE BURNED MY WHOLE SOLAR BARN DOWN TO THE GROUND!! I took for granted how safe LiFePO2 battery chemistry was and it almost cost me dearly. Attached are photos of the completed battery and the burned batteries (3 total out of my 12 batteries). Note that I’ve circled the lug bolt in yellow to show the source of the error. PLEASE learn from my mistake and consider all battery chemistries hazardous for your DIY project.

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This build appears familiar... like I made a comment on the safety of one similar a while back...

I see, it's a common battery hookup setup.
Yeah, unfortunately, shorted wires let out all the smoke.

Thanks for posting the mayhem.
Hopefully others will read this and see that wiring and batteries in general need pressure protection, not just build it and pile stuff on top.

what is lifepo2? do you mean po4?

Alkaline said:

what is lifepo2? do you mean po4?

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Yep typo

rhino said:

If you are in the USA it was really difficult for me to find CO2 extinguishers.. Called multiple local places including welding supply and they would have to order it. I finally came across https://fireextinguisherdepot.com (which I found after I ordered one from uline for much higher price). Passing along if anyone else having trouble finding them in their area.

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Paintball supply stores can fill a 20 oz canister of Co2 for a few dollars. They sell a screw on shutoff valve that goes right on top. Its certainly a hack, but it works, just be prepared for the canister to drop to below freezing in about 20 seconds of continuous use. I wrapped some beer can cozies around mine to protect my hands. You could probably plumb a system over the batteries as well with some steel braided line. (I never tried it, but sounds interesting, sort of like gas stations have).

hankcurt said:

Am I correct that on the Headway cells, the body of the cell is electrically part of one of the terminals?

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Yes and the Lego like parts often used for assembling packs keeps them separate.

Hogheavenfarm said:

Paintball supply stores can fill a 20 oz canister of Co2 for a few dollars. They sell a screw on shutoff valve that goes right on top. Its certainly a hack, but it works, just be prepared for the canister to drop to below freezing in about 20 seconds of continuous use. I wrapped some beer can cozies around mine to protect my hands. You could probably plumb a system over the batteries as well with some steel braided line. (I never tried it, but sounds interesting, sort of like gas stations have).

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If you invert the cylinder when you spray on a fire, it doesn’t get cold… all the cold goes on the fire.

deffhaus said:

I was really proud of my DIY battery build with headway cells until I stupidly put a cardboard box on top of the batteries not paying attention to the hazard. One of the positive lug bolts pierced the thin film and the cell burst into flames. Fortunately my wife and I were close by and pulled out the burning box and batteries with only small injuries. IT COULD HAVE BURNED MY WHOLE SOLAR BARN DOWN TO THE GROUND!! I took for granted how safe LiFePO2 battery chemistry was and it almost cost me dearly. Attached are photos of the completed battery and the burned batteries (3 total out of my 12 batteries). Note that I’ve circled the lug bolt in yellow to show the source of the error. PLEASE learn from my mistake and consider all battery chemistries hazardous for your DIY project.

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"I took for granted how safe LiFePO2 battery chemistry was and it almost cost me dearly."

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complacency
Nothing is safe when you have stored energy. Nothing. When you mess with electricity then you have picked up a rattle snake ... just a matter of time. When someone says something is safe they are basing it on a comparative note... straight up old lithium batteries vs lifepo - then will say lifepo are very safe. Comparative...

complacency
Many years ago... I had a 3volt lithium battery blow up in a weapon light .... completely destroying it, burned gun and burned my hand as it melted-blew through the housing of the weapon light housing. I remember hearing the loud pop ...then it violently exploded - burst into flames. Upon further research found this was lot more common then just my incident.
My battery brand was not this one but battery was the same type as picture and name is fitting. So safe is relative to what comparison? Again you picked up a rattle snake and it tried to bite you.

complacency
Do you remember the old 9 volt batteries most ppl considered them safe..... never carry one in your pocket with keys - change or anything metallic. Same for storing them in the battery drawer. Considered very safe. Many ppl have made that mistake back in early days of transistor radios. Kids toys came out with screws on battery compartments to keep kids out. 9 volt batteries are still used in fire detectors. Nothing is safe.

So now having said all that back to the drawing board for your battery re-design and re-configuration or cut and run after dropping the rattle snake. Me = cut and run on CR123... 3volt old lithium batteries in any weapon light. ???

i would never own an EV due to their current battery pack type.. Tesla or whatever - nope nope nope. Just a matter of time......... Stored energy lets the smoke out

1 single SLA car battery can blow up too...if shorted - gassing ... take your hood off. Nothing safe. We live in a world that we are surrounded by assessed and complacent dangers. When you pull your traditional car into the garage then just brought a petro-gas filled electrical bomb into your home confines. Best to park them outside and since majority ppl have garage full of junk then that is result anyway. ? Risk.

thanks for sharing.

D71 said:

complacency
Nothing is safe when you have stored energy. Nothing. When you mess with electricity then you have picked up a rattle snake ... just a matter of time. When someone says something is safe they are basing it on a comparative note... straight up old lithium batteries vs lifepo - then will say lifepo are very safe. Comparative...

complacency
Many years ago... I had a 3volt lithium battery blow up in a weapon light .... completely destroying it, burned gun and burned my hand as it melted-blew through the housing of the weapon light housing. I remember hearing the loud pop ...then it violently exploded - burst into flames. Upon further research found this was lot more common then just my incident.
My battery brand was not this one but battery was the same type as picture and name is fitting. So safe is relative to what comparison? Again you picked up a rattle snake and it tried to bite you.

complacency
Do you remember the old 9 volt batteries most ppl considered them safe..... never carry one in your pocket with keys - change or anything metallic. Same for storing them in the battery drawer. Considered very safe. Many ppl have made that mistake back in early days of transistor radios. Kids toys came out with screws on battery compartments to keep kids out. 9 volt batteries are still used in fire detectors. Nothing is safe.

So now having said all that back to the drawing board for your battery re-design and re-configuration or cut and run after dropping the rattle snake. Me = cut and run on CR123... 3volt old lithium batteries in any weapon light. ???

i would never own an EV due to their current battery pack type.. Tesla or whatever - nope nope nope. Just a matter of time......... Stored energy lets the smoke out

1 single SLA car battery can blow up too...if shorted - gassing ... take your hood off. Nothing safe. We live in a world that we are surrounded by assessed and complacent dangers. When you pull your traditional car into the garage then just brought a petro-gas filled electrical bomb into your home confines. Best to park them outside and since majority ppl have garage full of junk then that is result anyway. ? Risk.

thanks for sharing.

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Wow…

That is a sad way to live.

I prefer to make safe contingencies for any build or parking I provide.

D71 said:

Nothing is safe when you have stored energy. Nothing.

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FTFY. Life is full of dangers; you mitigate them as much as possible, but you can never eliminate them. If you take it too far, you can stop taking showers because the bathroom is the most dangerous room in your house after all.

upnorthandpersonal said:

because the bathroom is the most dangerous room in your house after all.

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Yeah I had to put a canary in ours to monitor air quality when one of my kids nearly died when they went in there after I had used the toilet after a large meal on Cinco de mayo.

Supervstech said:

Wow…

That is a sad way to live.

I prefer to make safe contingencies for any build or parking I provide.

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You are on a forum where ppl are sharing their mistakes so that you can learn from them. Throughout history NOTHING Major is designed that did not have challenges.... some of them fatal. The fatalities often spawn innovations That is exactly where codes and standards have come from that we are suppose to abide by now. Hobby activities such as taking on the challenge of assembling your own batteries ..... means you have researched and are competent to perform such a task. Either that or you buy assembled batteries where the manufacturer will try to deny liability in the event of a failure ... if possible. There are very few items in solar and inverter technology that have ACTUAL U.L. on them for several reasons. You are doing the leg work when you d.i.y. ..... the inverters batteries and systems are a failure waiting to happen.... how they fail can maybe be read on forums like this Because that is exactly what we are doing here.

P.S. bathrooms were not always in homes. Neither were GFCI ..... neither was the knowledge that electricity and water might not mix. Hard lessons were learned and some safety rules - devices were made from the previous failures... complacency ....

Years ago most engineering students in college were shown a video of engineering feats that had failed. ..... don't know what they teach now..... most young engineering students showing up in my work place before my retirement must have skipped several classes and were definitely on a grading curve. I think they had lived in Disney but left after the alligator ate that child a few years ago. No longer safe.

You can't spend time on this forum and remain unaware of the dangers. Therefore your post about complacency is misplaced, the irony is you posted it this thread.

NEpowerandlight said:

You can't spend time on this forum and remain unaware of the dangers. Therefore your post about complacency is misplaced, the irony is you posted it this thread.

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Excuse me .... did you read the initial post? The complacency is within it. Here is the quote many ppl fall into for most things.
"I took for granted how safe LiFePO2 battery chemistry was and it almost cost me dearly."

if that is not the definition of complacency then it does not exist. So what is your real problem and complaint?
"complacency

kəm-plā′sən-sē

noun​

1. A feeling of contentment or self-satisfaction, especially when coupled with an unawareness of danger, trouble, or controversy.
2. An instance of contented self-satisfaction.
3. A feeling of contented self-satisfaction, especially when unaware of upcoming trouble." American Heritage Dictionary.

thanks for sharing. Tough lesson. Did you 3D print those white holders, and would be willing to share the file?