Sol-Ark 15K + Generator

bstump · Jan 25, 2023

Generator experience / advice, please. Much appreciated!!!

I want to go with a propane standby generator and have it start up when my batteries hit X%. The Sol-Ark is already set up for that, but it just runs outside to a 30A / 220V plug that I plug in to my Predator 9500 when my batteries get low. I'm tired of pulling out the Predator 9500.

I'm looking at going with a Generac. There's not a huge difference in price on these things between like a 7.5kW and a 22kW. I have EG4 LiFePower4 batteries. From a long-term standpoint would it be better to charge the batteries at the lower wattage? Our home uses around 16kWh-22kWh per day, so it would take less than an hour for the higher one to charge.

I do know the Sol-Ark is really picky on the 60Hz, it wouldn't charge my batteries with a "regular" generator, I had to get an inverter generator and it would charge (I know the Hz can be adjusted, but from what I've been told and what I've read it's best to keep it as close to 60Hz as you can for the batteries). So low THD has to be a thing for this generator.

Also, are there quieter options out there for a standby generator? One that can just sit outside and always be connected?

Another option would be to connect to the grid for almost $11K. I just didn't know if it would be worth the investment long-term.

Thank you very much for your help!!!!

Browse · Jan 25, 2023

It depends on your budget. I personally don't like the air cooled 3600 RPM Generac standby generators. They're loud and not very reliable based on my research when I was originally in the market for one. Three of my immediate neighbors have them and I can hear them over my Honda. My preference would be a Cummins RS25 liquid cooled 1800 RPM unit if I absolutely had to have a standby unit. In the end, I decided to go with a Honda EU7000is inverter unit with an MSK7000 tri-fuel kit installed. We don't have outages very often, but when we did have a 3 day outage during Ida in 2021 it performed very well. I now have a battery backup and inverter system in the basement so I'd only have to get out the Honda for recharging during an outage since we usually have utility power.

Some of the portable inverter units have auto-start features (or you can buy kits for this) that can be started from your Sol-Ark.

DPC · Jan 25, 2023

Generac

I have an issue with sets that turn 3600 rpm powered by air cooled V twins made of Chinese parts from a company with a dubious record for longevity for residential products.
And parts?
Well thats a problem sometimes too.

Generally speaking.
I like to see something that turns 1800 rpm, holds a gallon or oil, liquid cooling is nice and its made for everyday service and not a light duty standby unit.

Also never touch a great deal on a used light tower or rental portable set.
They tend to be abused and they are sold off at the end of their life for a reason.

DPC · Jan 25, 2023

Browse said:
My preference would be a Cummins RS25 liquid cooled 1800 RPM unit

I don;t know that one.
I would find out first who and where the engine and generator were built by.
Cummins has a reputation for breaking and being scrapped out and replaced under warranty because there are no parts.
After the warranty you could really curse a purchase of something like that.

An Onan J range was a no brainer back in the day.
They made a lot of them, the engine family was built around a diesel and gas rated engine block.
The engine was only used and designed for one purpose.

I have no idea whats in a Cummins unit but I would look hard at it

This says Onan but its all Chinese.

About the only new units I have any faith in are generally built around an Isuzu or Kubota engine and found on large RVs.
Dahatsue ( toyota) makes a pretty good gas/diesel engine used in a lot of things like the JD Gator that might be available for home generators.
But You really need to ask some more current generator guys what they think.

I'm not really in the business anymore and I'm admittedly stuck in the past.
I like the little Ford Lima engine bolt to a Kohler if you can find a realtive low hour one but even that machine is getting long in the tooth and hard to get parts for.

Browse · Jan 25, 2023

No, the one I'm talking about is in a different league:

DPC · Jan 25, 2023

I just don't know about Cummins.
They have made some real crap and dumped on a market thats used to crap now.

Offer the man 800 bucks and take it home....
Its an RV unit without a history so the price is right.

This kind of thing has legs under it but people want big units now when in reality most don't need more that 6500 watts

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740GLE · Jan 25, 2023

Seeing it’d be under constant load I’d be looking for an inverter based and then run it at 1-2-3/4 power to charge. Stay on top of maintenance and plan to replace it after xxx amount of hours as they aren’t designed for this type of loading.

DPC · Jan 25, 2023

740GLE said:
Seeing it’d be under constant load I’d be looking for an inverter based and then run it at 1-2-3/4 power to charge. Stay on top of maintenance and plan to replace it after xxx amount of hours as they aren’t designed for this type of loading.

Sad but true.
The electronics are the weakest link.

Every time it heat cycles the solid state parts expand and contract at different rates inside and they are under stress.
The caps dry out, the junctions inside the power carrying solid state devices start to crack and fail.
They die with a wisper not a KABOOM...

I brought this up before.
This is a completely different idea.
Its a machine designed from the get go to charge battery banks.
They sell a lot of them in China and they are dirt cheap.
Some are very cheap and built around V type Clone generators and some are quite interesting with clone engines but liquid cooled blocks.
That said they are not for sale here, but some fellow will eventually clue into the idea of a PM generator head and much simpler electronics.
I like clone engines and PM heads both are cheap as dirt so if one fails parts are easy.

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There is one Chinese engine parts seller with the name " Ant " in the brand that will sell you enough parts to build something.
Parts small enough to mail.
Since there are some vender rules here I want to say I have nothing to do with any of these people and your on your own to find buy and build
I have no financial interests...

bstump · Jan 25, 2023

740GLE said:
Seeing it’d be under constant load I’d be looking for an inverter based and then run it at 1-2-3/4 power to charge. Stay on top of maintenance and plan to replace it after xxx amount of hours as they aren’t designed for this type of loading.

It wouldn't be under constant load. I generated about 399 kWh last month with the generator and about 326 with solar. January has been just as crappy. Hoping other months get better... It's a 10.92kW system, I was hoping it would do better than 326 kWh...

DPC · Jan 25, 2023

You want to be around 75% of full load.
A bit more a bit less.....
See what your fuel economy looks like but you don't want to be significantly less or your just turning fuel into noise and green house gasses...

mvonw · Jan 25, 2023

Slow-Turning Perkins 6,125 Watt Diesel Generator

Prime power genrerators,not backup and the best..

bstump · Jan 25, 2023

DPC said:
You want to be around 75% of full load.
A bit more a bit less.....
See what your fuel economy looks like but you don't want to be significantly less or your just turning fuel into noise and green house gasses...

I'm not talking about the generator capacity. I was talking about if I charge the LiFePo4 batteries too fast, will they degrade quicker over time?

bstump · Jan 25, 2023

DPC said:
Generac

I have an issue with sets that turn 3600 rpm powered by air cooled V twins made of Chinese parts from a company with a dubious record for longevity for residential products.
And parts?
Well thats a problem sometimes too.

Generally speaking.
I like to see something that turns 1800 rpm, holds a gallon or oil, liquid cooling is nice and its made for everyday service and not a light duty standby unit.

Also never touch a great deal on a used light tower or rental portable set.
They tend to be abused and they are sold off at the end of their life for a reason.

"...I like to see something that turns 1800 rpm, holds a gallon or oil, liquid cooling is nice and its made for everyday service and not a light duty standby unit..."

What would that be? It has to run on propane and it has to be able to sit outside 24/7, rain or shine, sleet or snow (northern Indiana weather).

Nobodybusiness · Jan 25, 2023

bstump said:
"...I like to see something that turns 1800 rpm, holds a gallon or oil, liquid cooling is nice and its made for everyday service and not a light duty standby unit..."

What would that be? It has to run on propane and it has to be able to sit outside 24/7, rain or shine, sleet or snow (northern Indiana weather).

Detroit 2-71 diesel. Run at 1200 or 1800 forever

740GLE · Jan 25, 2023

bstump said:
It wouldn't be under constant load. I generated about 399 kWh last month with the generator and about 326 with solar. January has been just as crappy. Hoping other months get better... It's a 10.92kW system, I was hoping it would do better than 326 kWh...

Right but the generator will be charging at what 10-30amp 240v a constant load from say 30% to 80%? Say 4 hrs a day for say 20 days a month over the winter months, that’s hard life for a standby generator.

Typical standby generators are “built” for duty cycles that vary, say a 10 amp load for say 2 min of a well pump, a 5 amp load for 20 min of a fridge.

Even if you balance out your fuel consumption per KWHr and find the sweet
spot of efficiency and run it always at that load you’ll find the total service hours my not be ideal.

As for harm to the cells or batteries of charging slow and low, or high and fast, as long as you stay under .5C (which is very easy for a large battery bank) you won’t cause and loss of life. Trying to charge up to full 100% under high current and hitting HVD will cause more damage.

You can build a sound isolating enclosure to help keep things quiet, just be mindful of ventilation and cooling.

740GLE · Jan 25, 2023

Nobodybusiness said:
Detroit 2-71 diesel. Run at 1200 or 1800 forever

Yup that’s a nice and quiet option ?

DPC · Jan 25, 2023

Smallest I can think of is the Kohler l645
( there was a smaller one but it’s realy rare )

The Onan ek 30 is a little big but the 300 ford inline is a very easy engine to fix

At first glance small block Chinese Honda clone
No big deal

Look closer water cooled block
I have not been able to get my hands on one but that machine has great potential as an off grid battery charger

Other engines of interest
Anything powered with a wisconsin
Air cooled but very conservative designs that stood the test of time

Kohler k331
A rare bird too but holds a half gallon of oil very robust simple design very conservative

Some examples of old stuff that’s not a perect solution to a modern problem

The Chinese seem to have picked up on this battery charging issue because of all the electric cars
The recognition of the solar industry needing a similar charger seems not to have caught the imagination of people yet

DPC · Jan 25, 2023

This is a Delco plant
It’s about 80 or 90 years old
GM saw there was a market and built battery chargers for off grid homes
Kohler and others did too

These were not generators or lighting plants these units were design to charge batteries
Do it automatically
No compromises…..
12 24 36 volt dc machines
No one sells a modern machine like that here
I suspect it’s going to change
This was one of the last of them

This is a very early one
But consider this 100year old machine senses battery load and level and starts and stops automatically
A modern machine like this is what is required today as a solar back up and a. I Viennese t way to do an equalization charge

Nobodybusiness · Jan 25, 2023

740GLE said:
Yup that’s a nice and quiet option ?

I didn’t see quiet in the requirements but no it’s not quiet but will run forever.

If you want quiet you get a Honda Inverter Generator.

DPC · Jan 25, 2023

Nobodybusiness said:
I didn’t see quiet in the requirements but no it’s not quiet but will run forever.

If you want quit you get a Honda Inverter Generator.

You can get quiet and reliable
That’s an Onan cck4
But it’s hard on gas

You can get quiet and good on gas
That’s a Honda inverter
But it’s not going to last and last

Your going to be very hard pressed to get good on gas, thousands of hours if use and quiet all in one unit
Not anything I am aware of that’s commonly available and affordable at any rate

It is my opinion that machine designed with a singular purpose to charge batteries with precision and durability and a dam good muffler and sound proof enclosed that’s a step forward

Skypower · Jan 25, 2023

I don’t believe any Generac “home” series (stationary/standby) are inverter type. To guarantee good frequency regulation, pure sine wave and fuel economy, nothing beats an inverter generator. The DuroMax 9000 and the one shown below are dual dual fuel and can be rigged to start/stop with dry contact control. The unit below has the 50amp outlet (Amazon) Always break-in on gasoline and reduced loads for at least one full tank before switching to propane. Use conventional oil for at least the first tank. Change oil after the first 10 minutes to remove the early fines. Excellent synthetic oil is Pennzoil Platinum.

Nobodybusiness · Jan 25, 2023

DPC said:
Onan cck4

Can you even find those anymore?

DPC · Jan 25, 2023

Nobodybusiness said:
Can you even find those anymore?

YA just shop around

Heres a 4bfa. ( thats an aluminum block basicly the same as a CCK )
I cant read the name plate, but from the looks I would call that a later one than mine Maybe a Spec R retrofit or later ( electronics have been replaced with relays )

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Not far down the road yet another BFA.

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Must be BFA day
All the same unit...

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Based on description I'm calling this an NH

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Another BFA, this one has that 905 solid state board I don't like. ( Spec R )
Bet you thats a very low hour unit because those boards were warranty items.

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Another NH in pieces I bet thats because it wouldn't start and stay running and I see the 905 board in the pile of parts.

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Round head LK205 RV unit.
Half a CCK, were getting warmer!!

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MCC-6 getting hot now.
Thats a real nice unit too, higher output longer lasting because its got the water cooled block and high compression heads.

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I am defeated...
I could not find an air cooled CCK today.
But I found a lot of BFAs and inspite of the aluminum block they are excellent machine too.
Put set of heads off a BGE or P116 tractor on it for a bit more compression and better economy.

DPC · Jan 25, 2023

Skypower said:
I don’t believe any Generac “home” series (stationary/standby) are inverter type. To guarantee good frequency regulation, pure sine wave and fuel economy, nothing beats an inverter generator. The DuroMax 9000 and the one shown below are dual dual fuel and can be rigged to start/stop with dry contact control. The unit below has the 50amp outlet (Amazon) Always break-in on gasoline and reduced loads for at least one full tank before switching to propane. Use conventional oil for at least the first tank. Change oil after the first 10 minutes to remove the early fines. Excellent synthetic oil is Pennzoil Platinum.
View attachment 131538

Another clone
This is a pumped up big block Honda from a GX390
Without any other changes they have increased the displacement and power output to 28 ci and about 15 hp.
Can it sustain 7600 watts?
It might for a while but I bet it would blow up if held at anything above 6000 watts for very long.

An NH Onan same rating is 60 cubic inches and two cylinder turning half the RPM and with full pressurized lubrication and is rated to pull that all day long.

A lot of people get hung up on a brand.
I don't I am as happy as a clam as long as it has a good design.
It would be interesting to put that too a test and see how long and hard it can pull.
As fate would have it I know of a fellow that did put a big OTC up against a clone.
Lets see how that plays out.

Browse · Jan 26, 2023

Don't forget you can parallel two inverter generators if you think you will need a lot of continuous power for longer periods but don't want to run the machines at a high % load. You can get clean, quiet power but it is going to cost you:

This guy has two Honda EU7000is paralleled in an enclosure:

Got a second EU7000, more work to be done.

Hey, so I pulled the trigger on a second EU7000. Both units fit nicely in the enclosure I built last year. I have 6 gauge cable running from my inlet box. But need to update other parts of the system. I want to feel out some options and get some opinions. 1. Inlet box.… Got to install a 50amp...

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