6 MWh SRNE ASF48100U200-H 10kw.

42OhmsPA · Oct 28, 2023

Slowly making progress.
Should have N/G tests after lunch when I take things offline to wire in the new battery disconnect.

Ps it does run off solar only as @Lighthouse Beacon mentioned in his thread. I had no issues when I turned off the batteries earlier today.

Edit - photo had my address visible. Oops.

zanydroid · Oct 31, 2023

Is this inverter capable of generator boost like a Victron? Want to operate it in parallel with either my generator or my car’s V2L.

Ideally with surplus power going to charge and the inverter automatically making up the demand above the power source’s limit.

ChrisG · Oct 31, 2023

zanydroid said:
Is this inverter capable of generator boost like a Victron? Want to operate it in parallel with either my generator or my car’s V2L.

Ideally with surplus power going to charge and the inverter automatically making up the demand above the power source’s limit.

Never thought of that with V2L. You could limit the Victron AC in to 15a and pull rest from DC (PV and Battery), power assist function or whatever.

42OhmsPA · Oct 31, 2023

zanydroid said:
Is this inverter capable of generator boost like a Victron? Want to operate it in parallel with either my generator or my car’s V2L.

Ideally with surplus power going to charge and the inverter automatically making up the demand above the power source’s limit.

I don't believe so. There are settings for maximum grid/generator charging current and a few different time schedule options as well as overload bypass.

42OhmsPA · Oct 31, 2023

Lessons learned for the next storage expansion....
-Leave room to work! I'll be using a metal cabinet and taping the cells in groups before hand. I will likely end up changing out the orange strap, it is bugging me. Have to see if I can find an old school hand bander to borrow.
-Don't go overkill with 1AWG marine wire for the pack to bus connections, it's really not bend friendly, 4AWG would have been ample with my parallel packs. The 2/0 welding wire is so much easier to work with.
-Drill and tap all connections for BMS wires, tightening down the cell connections with the ring terminals on top is a pita.
-Top balance unless using an active balancing BMS, had to switch to grid and float the envisions for over a day to get them close at the top of the curve. The LF230s from Docan that I top balanced got to 3.5v with no crazy runners.
-think 10 steps ahead, 5 isn't enough.

I think that's enough self criticism for now ?.

I'll get the 3rd pack on the top shelf after work today.

I could take the SGP off the wall and fit a nice tall stack in that area..

Edit to add the combiner box still has to be added, I know those breakers hanging in the wild aren't ideal and I'll be using ferrules on all connections.

zanydroid · Oct 31, 2023

42OhmsPA said:
I don't believe so. There are settings for maximum grid/generator charging current and a few different time schedule options as well as overload bypass.

OK. Do you think this inverter would be a good way to go from 120 -> chargeverter -> 120/240 without a battery initially?

42OhmsPA · Oct 31, 2023

zanydroid said:
OK. Do you think this inverter would be a good way to go from 120 -> chargeverter -> 120/240 without a battery initially?

So use the chargeverter fed from 120vAC to supply the inverter with DC (up to 50a) then use the inverter to output 120/240v?

I suppose that would work.

zanydroid · Oct 31, 2023

I guess I just need to give it the right voltage threshold to stay on. 10kW is also way higher than my 120V generators (the 1.8kW V2L and the 3kW generator). Need to think about whether this one is better or the 6000XP.

42OhmsPA · Oct 31, 2023

It would only pull the max of 50a, ~3000w pending DC voltage, on the AC side so I would think it would work with either depending how much you are loading it.

From my research SRNE has been around longer than Lux but they both seem like solid units. If anyone from Lux is listening, feel free to ship me one and I'll gladly throw it on the wall in place of the SRNE and put it through it's paces.
I still kinda wish the 12k testing panned out but I never received a follow up after I was told everything was a go...

fafrd · Oct 31, 2023

zanydroid said:
OK. Do you think this inverter would be a good way to go from 120 -> chargeverter -> 120/240 without a battery initially?

You converting from 120VAC because of V2L? 240VAC would be the better option from grid.

Without any battery at all, I’d be worried about startup lag and hiccups. The smallest-size 48V battery you can find (golf cart?) would be an easy way to provide a buffer to avoid any such hiccups…

zanydroid · Oct 31, 2023

fafrd said:
You converting from 120VAC because of V2L? 240VAC would be the better option from grid.

Without any battery at all, I’d be worried about startup lag and hiccups. The smallest-size 48V battery you can find (golf cart?) would be an easy way to provide a buffer to avoid any such hiccups…

My V2L and generator are both 120V. My loads are across both legs and I don't want to refactor them. Also it's either dangerous or really painful (involves rewiring or doing weird stuff) to refactor with how much MWBC there is in this house.

I need to get 3.5kW to reliably start everything including the mini-split, so 48V * 50Ah is not good enough unless I buy a generator assist inverter like a MultiPlus, which can then stack with the car to get 4kW (assuming no N-G bond problems). But then I need to buy two to get 120/240, and MultiPlus are really expensive now that 6000XP and SRNE10k etc exist. 6000XP is 120/240 UL1741 (identical tier) to MultiPlus II for 120V 2400W and same price.

fafrd · Oct 31, 2023

zanydroid said:
My V2L and generator are both 120V. My loads are across both legs and I don't want to refactor them. Also it's either dangerous or really painful (involves rewiring or doing weird stuff) to refactor with how much MWBC there is in this house.

Got it - a 120VAC Chargeverter makes a lot of sense then.

zanydroid said:
I need to get 3.5kW to reliably start everything including the mini-split, so 48V * 50Ah is not good enough

Are you saying that just because 1C discharge rate won’t get you enough power?

LA batteries can go way above 1C and the small ‘buffer’ battery is only supplying power to cover the short interval before the Chargeverter kick’s in.

I’m not sure how instantaneously the Chargeverter can begin to provide it’s full power output when a large load kicks on.

Also, rectifier output is reduced to 50% when powering from 120VAC, so you may need 2 or likely even 3 Chargeverter to supply a sustained 3.5kW of DC power to your hybrid inverter.

What’s the AC power rating of your V2L port?

zanydroid said:
unless I buy a generator assist inverter like a MultiPlus, which can then stack with the car to get 4kW (assuming no N-G bond problems). But then I need to buy two to get 120/240, and MultiPlus are really expensive now that 6000XP and SRNE10k etc exist. 6000XP is 120/240 UL1741 (identical tier) to MultiPlus II for 120V 2400W and same price.

If you select a split-phase hybrid with a 240VAC generator port, can’t you just convert your 120VAC power input (V2L or 120VAC generator to 240VAC with an Autotransformer?

Autotransformers are relatively inexpensive…

cs1234 · Oct 31, 2023

fafrd said:
If you select a split-phase hybrid with a 240VAC generator port, can’t you just convert your 120VAC power input (V2L or 120VAC generator to 240VAC with an Autotransformer?

Autotransformers are relatively inexpensive…

2 chargeverters can combine into one dc input though if he wants to use both sources at the same time. I don't think he can combine two separate 120vac sources into an autotransformer.

zanydroid · Oct 31, 2023

The V2L is 16A @ 120V

fafrd said:
Are you saying that just because 1C discharge rate won’t get you enough power?

I was thinking LFP and those often have BMS that caps at 1C or lower discharge.

fafrd said:
Also, rectifier output is reduced to 50% when powering from 120VAC, so you may need 2 or likely even 3 Chargeverter to supply a sustained 3.5kW of DC power to your hybrid inverter.

Chargeverter has 50A @ 48V when on 120V, being able to get 2.4 kW from my generator is good enough. It's not worth stacking a AT or a chargeverter to get the full 3kW. And between the two (either of which are overkill) I would probably get a Chargeverter so I can make a franken setup with the V2L and generator (will probably not do this).

fafrd said:
If you select a split-phase hybrid with a 240VAC generator port, can’t you just convert your 120VAC power input (V2L or 120VAC generator to 240VAC with an Autotransformer?

I can but there are very few things with generator boost. So it can only be used to charge + power loads, not have inverter on to help with loads, unless you get a $$ hybrid. For instance I've mentioned that you could stack a Multiplus with V2L + AT to get 4kW output.

With V2L there's also a N-G bond at the car and a GFCI. Not something widely appreciated yet, though there's increasing awareness. There's a giant thread on defeating it on the Lightning (which I was on). It was pretty mixed among the risk averse folks on the forum as to whether working around it is a good idea.

fafrd said:
Autotransformers are relatively inexpensive…

They are but they're also the cost of a chargeverter with less flexibility. But the Chargeverter is not a complete system by itself

cs1234 said:
2 chargeverters can combine into one dc input though if he wants to use both sources at the same time. I don't think he can combine two separate 120vac sources into an autotransformer.

Nope but I don't plan on doing two AC sources unless someone sends me a free Chargeverter to play with and make social media memes of.

fafrd · Oct 31, 2023

zanydroid said:
The V2L is 16A @ 120V

I was thinking LFP and those often have BMS that caps at 1C or lower discharge.

I understood you were wanting to start with n battery at all and was suggesting a small ‘buffer’ batrtery.

For that use, I’d go with LA and was thinking of something like this: https://www.monsterscooterparts.com...MIhIGmiZuhggMVEQatBh39-gxEEAQYCSABEgLMP_D_BwE

12Ah / 576Wh is obviously not much of any capacity at all but more then enough to smooth out the output from your Chargeverter / rectifier…

zanydroid said:
Chargeverter has 50A @ 48V when on 120V, being able to get 2.4 kW from my generator is good enough. It's not worth stacking a AT or a chargeverter to get the full 3kW. And between the two (either of which are overkill) I would probably get a Chargeverter so I can make a franken setup with the V2L and generator (will probably not do this).

zanydroid said:
I can but there are very few things with generator boost.

Uhhh, assuming that is true, I believe it is about to change.

If you can supply a clean 240VAC grid-forming source into a generator input, I think you’ll find many hybrids that will use that power to offset loads with any excess used to charge battery and any deficit powered by inverter using battery energy.

zanydroid said:
So it can only be used to charge + power loads, not have inverter on to help with loads, unless you get a $$ hybrid. For instance I've mentioned that you could stack a Multiplus with V2L + AT to get 4kW output.

Again, I think there will be lower-cost (as in half of Multiplus-based) alternatives emerging over the next 12-18 months…

cs1234 · Oct 31, 2023

zanydroid said:
Nope but I don't plan on doing two AC sources unless someone sends me a free Chargeverter to play with and make social media memes of.

G00SE · Oct 31, 2023

cs1234 said:
View attachment 175445

Remind me to not click spoilers anymore ?
@Crowz can you plz make a rule 39. Thanks

Crowz · Oct 31, 2023

How about this for rule #39

42OhmsPA · Oct 31, 2023

Still need to get to the root cause of the 10vAC on the N - G. It's only there running off inverter. When I meter N - G on utility I get 0vAC... Looks like I should reach out to SRNE.

Otherwise everything is still working great with no issues.

Attached a short video of flipping from battery to utility if anyone is interested. I might notice a very small light flicker if I were looking for it.

ChrisG · Oct 31, 2023

42OhmsPA said:
Still need to get to the root cause of the 10vAC on the N - G. It's only there running off inverter. When I meter N - G on utility I get 0vAC... Looks like I should reach out to SRNE.

Otherwise everything is still working great with no issues.

Attached a short video of flipping from battery to utility if anyone is interested. I might notice a very small light flicker if I were looking for it.

Didn’t even see the flicker.

Lighthouse Beacon · Nov 1, 2023

42OhmsPA said:
Lessons learned for the next storage expansion....
-Leave room to work! I'll be using a metal cabinet and taping the cells in groups before hand. I will likely end up changing out the orange strap, it is bugging me. Have to see if I can find an old school hand bander to borrow.
-Don't go overkill with 1AWG marine wire for the pack to bus connections, it's really not bend friendly, 4AWG would have been ample with my parallel packs. The 2/0 welding wire is so much easier to work with.
-Drill and tap all connections for BMS wires, tightening down the cell connections with the ring terminals on top is a pita.
-Top balance unless using an active balancing BMS, had to switch to grid and float the envisions for over a day to get them close at the top of the curve. The LF230s from Docan that I top balanced got to 3.5v with no crazy runners.
-think 10 steps ahead, 5 isn't enough.

I think that's enough self criticism for now ?.

I'll get the 3rd pack on the top shelf after work today.

I could take the SGP off the wall and fit a nice tall stack in that area..

Edit to add the combiner box still has to be added, I know those breakers hanging in the wild aren't ideal and I'll be using ferrules on all connections.

Looking good buddy. Coming right along

42OhmsPA · Nov 1, 2023

Got the 3rd pack completely wired in and the BMS isn't letting current flow.
I'm stumped, irritated and hungry; so I walked away
Everything worked fine before I disconnected it.
Everything looks fine in BMS tools. I have the same config file for both 200a bms's with 230ah packs, charge and discharge on, 0 faults. Voltage after class T and breaker. No current when clamped either.
It makes no sense.
I'll grab some pics of settings after I get some meat, potatoes and greens in me.

42OhmsPA · Nov 1, 2023

Figured it out.
It needed to see charge current and be isolated to wake up.

nickj · Nov 1, 2023

42OhmsPA said:
Still need to get to the root cause of the 10vAC on the N - G. It's only there running off inverter. When I meter N - G on utility I get 0vAC... Looks like I should reach out to SRNE.

Otherwise everything is still working great with no issues.

Attached a short video of flipping from battery to utility if anyone is interested. I might notice a very small light flicker if I were looking for it.

Didn't see any light flicker at all. This video really highlights how quiet it is, though

42OhmsPA · Nov 2, 2023

nickj said:
Didn't see any light flicker at all. This video really highlights how quiet it is, though

Yea. It is a night and day difference from the TP6048. There was also a small fan running ~8' away.
The fans do ramp up as expected under heavy load but, like I've said before, are much more tolerable.

6 MWh SRNE ASF48100U200-H 10kw.

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