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The portrayal of Israel as innocent victims of palestinian animals is absurd.

klystron said:
What was the Oct 7th attack if not terrorism?

It won't matter much either way because I suspect that this time Israel is going to take care of business once and for all, and when they're finished there won't be much left of Gaza, hamas, or any other terrorist groups who decide to get involved. And.... the US should stay out of it altogether.
Click to expand...
What defined it as terrorism and not simply an invasion or attack?
 
Batvette said:
Free Palestine, ya dumb son of a bitch!
Click to expand...
The blind who will not see. Have you wondered why 1/2 the population in the Gaza strip are children? How do you feel about children being taught math in this way? " If you have 10 Jews and you stab 7 how many Jews are left? Pure hate....pure Evil against children and of course in the name of religion...........
 
klystron said:
Killing is one thing; torture [and then killing] is another. It baffles me why some people cannot see that simple difference.
Click to expand...

Right? I mean a kid getting his legs blown off, blinded and penentrated by shrapnel and then dying later is OK because they meant to kill the little fucker quickly instead of over an agonizing period of days.?

"That's the difference"
 
efrat.substack.com

Under the Guise of War: Israel Government Restricts Rights of Israelis

Israel-Hamas War Update #3
efrat.substack.com efrat.substack.com

  1. The FOIA law
    10 days ago, the Israeli government asked to freeze the FOIA law due to the war, and extend the time period that gov institutions can respond to a FOIA from 4 to 7 months. Due to public pressure and many civilian objections, the new FOIA maximum response period was set on 5 instead of 4 months, giving the government an additional 1 month delay to respond to FOIAs. (References 1, 2)

  2. Live fire against Israeli protesters
    Also 10 days ago, the government started to advance regulation which was pushed by National Security Minister Itamar Ben Gvir earlier this year, to allow police to use live fire against Israeli citizens who are blocking roads or entrances to towns during a “multi-front war”. I’ll say that again: police could open fire and shoot civilians’ legs if they block roads during war time.
    Under this regulation, police would only need approval from a senior officer before opening fire. The Attorney General, which initially agreed to fast-track the legislation and bring it to vote, retracted her agreement a few days later, due to public pressure and objections from politicians. So the Overton window has been opened, and finally this is not happening right now. This draconian measure could be brought back in the future, as happened before. (References 1, 2, 3)https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveb...esters-blocking-roads-during-multi-front-war/
  3. Freedom to protest
    In another extreme move to limit freedom of assembly and protest, the police chief said last week that they “don’t allow any demonstrations and would act to disperse them” threatening to send [protesters] to Gaza in buses.” But a day later, in light of widespread public criticism, the police took it back and announced: "Following various publications, Israel police considers the right to protest as a cornerstone of a democratic state. During the war, protests of any kind will be allowed in accordance with the law and compliance with the police and Home Front Command conditions”.
    We’ve seen something similar to this during Covid, the government tried to use its emergency powers under the enabling act to forbid people to protest, and they limited it at first to 100m from home, and then 1 km etc. Due to public resistance this was lifted and the freedom to protest was kept on the most part. (not without police violence, but that’s another story). My point here is that civilian resistance and non compliance works, we must not accept these draconian measures on our liberties, under any justification - war, virus, or end of the world climate change. (Reference 1)https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/bjoegecmp#autoplay
 
  • Incitement & conspiracy theories
    The Israeli police had set up a special task force to monitor speech online. This force, which was established in May 2023, has been operating on high speed since the war began: they’ve already imprisoned 103 suspects and 44 indictments have been filed in an expedited procedure against those who incite terrorism and express support for Hamas. Most of them were people who have shown support in Hamas terror actions or showed intention to harm others. The police taskforce is also working diligently to remove social media posts which are encouraging terror acts, about 1000 such posts have been removed already.
    In my opinion, while any incitement to violence and support of a terrorist organisation are wrong, dangerous and should be handled, the slippery slope is allowing this special police taskforce to threaten citizens who raise different opinions, I’ll explain where I see this slope:
    A week after the massacre, A police Sub-Commissioner released a deterrent note, referring to a number of Israelis who, since the beginning of the war, have been spreading “conspiracy theories” online hinting on an inside job, which he claims is “completely unfounded”. The sub-commissioner said those people are echoing Hamas or Iran conspiracy theories. “In cases where it is Israeli citizens who spread these fake theories, most of them are expected to soon find themselves in the police interrogation rooms. We will reach out to anyone who tries to harm the public's well being and safety by publishing such news or theories that the enemy is trying to echo in Israeli society.”
    This can be transformed into an amendment to the law or a new law, if they should choose to take it one step further.
    Remember, that such efficient handling of incitement, and such swift measures were NOT taken when people, including politicians and doctors incited against Israeli citizens during Covid. (References 1, 2, 3)
  • Agriculture aid & free speech
    Israeli agriculture is in a dire situation; While Israeli farmers are suffering from shortage of employees, evacuation from fields in borders proximity, or having to close their agriculture businesses or farms, the Israeli ministry of agriculture has opened a “war room” to monitor online posts and media reports against the ministry, which is related to “food security” in order to “fight” those who express criticism. Rather than helping the farmers in need, the government is seeking further control over speech and protection of its reputation.
    Two noteworthy developments:
    1- The Israeli public has shown wholehearted support for our local agriculture and farming. It's evident that people recognize the critical role it plays in securing our future, with many individuals volunteering for tasks such as picking, sorting, working in the fields, transportation, and trading of goods.
    2- Just yesterday, the Ministry of Agriculture announced significant aid, both financial and logistical, for our farmers. It appears that the heightened public awareness, robust support for our farmers, and mounting pressure on the authorities have compelled the ministry to step up and actively contribute. This showcases the remarkable power of civilian sovereignty.
  • Fight against terrorism bill
    This week the Knesset is expected to approve the “fight against terrorism” bill according to which the systematic and continuous consumption of Hamas and ISIS content will, under certain circumstances, constitute a criminal offence, punishable by one year in prison. Originally, this bill aimed to criminalise anyone who would passively consume this kind of content, even if they just consumed it and took no action - no incitement, no call to action nor support of Hamas. It is a "thoughts police bill" - for merely thinking something you can end up in jail.
    The association for human rights in Israel explains: “Following the public criticism of the bill’s original version, changes were introduced that slightly moderate its damage: the law in its new version requires additional external circumstances for criminalization, indicating identification with ISIS or Hamas, and the passive consumption of the publications is not enough. However, in the shadow of the ambiguity that surrounds many of the elements of the offence, which are subject to the interpretation of the authorities, it is highly doubtful whether this addition will reduce the harm inherent in the law and prevent the entanglement of innocent citizens with suspicions of terrorist offences.
    Despite the change, it is still a law that is unprecedented in democratic countries, and will have a chilling effect on freedom of expression. There is a gap between the extreme cases that bother the Shin Bet, and which the law is intended to prevent, and the language of the law, which could lead to hurting innocent citizens who have no intention of committing terrorism.” (Reference 1)
  • Biometric identification
    Another temporary provision that was approved for a strangely long period of one year, is related to biometric identification. In light of the terror acts on Oct. 7th, Israel was faced with the complex task of identifying a large number of victims - some of them were almost impossible to recognize, as well as obtaining a status on the missing and kidnapped Israelis. The government’s solution was to use the biometric database of Israeli citizens for this essential and urgent purpose, which includes transferring information from the biometric database in the Ministry of the Interior to the police, Shabak, Intelligence Agencies and the IDF.
    Dissidents to this provision questioned why it was necessary to create it in the first place, as there are currently procedures in the existing law regarding information requests to security agencies. It was mentioned that this provision is essentially establishing a parallel, or even bypassing, mechanism to the court and to the existing law. Furthermore, it is not limited to the tasks of identifying bodies and missing persons, but rather it allows security agencies to demand, receive and possess biometric identification data of a living person, who is not necessarily missing or suspected of being dead.     (Reference 1)
 
klystron said:
Their despicable actions and sub-human behavior.
Click to expand...
Some people call voting for Trump a despicable action.
The fact is "terrorism" does have an actual definition but now it seems to be used to villify enemies for propaganda use and to justify war crimes, disproportionate response, and genocide.
Torture is torture. It isnt terrorism. Killing people by beheading may be more cold blooded than dropping bombs, but it isnt terrorism. Both Israel and the US media have used "terrorism" to justify indiscriminate killing of Palestinian civilians, which is an accurate description of virtually everyone killed by their bombs. Hamas militants make up a tiny percentage of Gaza residents.
 
aenyc said:
  • Incitement & conspiracy theories
    The Israeli police had set up a special task force to monitor speech online. This force, which was established in May 2023, has been operating on high speed since the war began: they’ve already imprisoned 103 suspects and 44 indictments have been filed in an expedited procedure against those who incite terrorism and express support for Hamas. Most of them were people who have shown support in Hamas terror actions or showed intention to harm others. The police taskforce is also working diligently to remove social media posts which are encouraging terror acts, about 1000 such posts have been removed already.
    In my opinion, while any incitement to violence and support of a terrorist organisation are wrong, dangerous and should be handled, the slippery slope is allowing this special police taskforce to threaten citizens who raise different opinions, I’ll explain where I see this slope:
    A week after the massacre, A police Sub-Commissioner released a deterrent note, referring to a number of Israelis who, since the beginning of the war, have been spreading “conspiracy theories” online hinting on an inside job, which he claims is “completely unfounded”. The sub-commissioner said those people are echoing Hamas or Iran conspiracy theories. “In cases where it is Israeli citizens who spread these fake theories, most of them are expected to soon find themselves in the police interrogation rooms. We will reach out to anyone who tries to harm the public's well being and safety by publishing such news or theories that the enemy is trying to echo in Israeli society.”
    This can be transformed into an amendment to the law or a new law, if they should choose to take it one step further.
    Remember, that such efficient handling of incitement, and such swift measures were NOT taken when people, including politicians and doctors incited against Israeli citizens during Covid. (References 1, 2, 3)
  • Agriculture aid & free speech
    Israeli agriculture is in a dire situation; While Israeli farmers are suffering from shortage of employees, evacuation from fields in borders proximity, or having to close their agriculture businesses or farms, the Israeli ministry of agriculture has opened a “war room” to monitor online posts and media reports against the ministry, which is related to “food security” in order to “fight” those who express criticism. Rather than helping the farmers in need, the government is seeking further control over speech and protection of its reputation.
    Two noteworthy developments:
    1- The Israeli public has shown wholehearted support for our local agriculture and farming. It's evident that people recognize the critical role it plays in securing our future, with many individuals volunteering for tasks such as picking, sorting, working in the fields, transportation, and trading of goods.
    2- Just yesterday, the Ministry of Agriculture announced significant aid, both financial and logistical, for our farmers. It appears that the heightened public awareness, robust support for our farmers, and mounting pressure on the authorities have compelled the ministry to step up and actively contribute. This showcases the remarkable power of civilian sovereignty.
  • Fight against terrorism bill
    This week the Knesset is expected to approve the “fight against terrorism” bill according to which the systematic and continuous consumption of Hamas and ISIS content will, under certain circumstances, constitute a criminal offence, punishable by one year in prison. Originally, this bill aimed to criminalise anyone who would passively consume this kind of content, even if they just consumed it and took no action - no incitement, no call to action nor support of Hamas. It is a "thoughts police bill" - for merely thinking something you can end up in jail.
    The association for human rights in Israel explains: “Following the public criticism of the bill’s original version, changes were introduced that slightly moderate its damage: the law in its new version requires additional external circumstances for criminalization, indicating identification with ISIS or Hamas, and the passive consumption of the publications is not enough. However, in the shadow of the ambiguity that surrounds many of the elements of the offence, which are subject to the interpretation of the authorities, it is highly doubtful whether this addition will reduce the harm inherent in the law and prevent the entanglement of innocent citizens with suspicions of terrorist offences.
    Despite the change, it is still a law that is unprecedented in democratic countries, and will have a chilling effect on freedom of expression. There is a gap between the extreme cases that bother the Shin Bet, and which the law is intended to prevent, and the language of the law, which could lead to hurting innocent citizens who have no intention of committing terrorism.” (Reference 1)
  • Biometric identification
    Another temporary provision that was approved for a strangely long period of one year, is related to biometric identification. In light of the terror acts on Oct. 7th, Israel was faced with the complex task of identifying a large number of victims - some of them were almost impossible to recognize, as well as obtaining a status on the missing and kidnapped Israelis. The government’s solution was to use the biometric database of Israeli citizens for this essential and urgent purpose, which includes transferring information from the biometric database in the Ministry of the Interior to the police, Shabak, Intelligence Agencies and the IDF.
    Dissidents to this provision questioned why it was necessary to create it in the first place, as there are currently procedures in the existing law regarding information requests to security agencies. It was mentioned that this provision is essentially establishing a parallel, or even bypassing, mechanism to the court and to the existing law. Furthermore, it is not limited to the tasks of identifying bodies and missing persons, but rather it allows security agencies to demand, receive and possess biometric identification data of a living person, who is not necessarily missing or suspected of being dead.     (Reference 1)
Click to expand...
Perfect example. By labelling the opposition as terrorists, theyve justified criminalizing any criticism or opposition to their own agenda and war crimes.
 
Batvette said:
Some people call voting for Trump a despicable action.
The fact is "terrorism" does have an actual definition but now it seems to be used to villify enemies for propaganda use and to justify war crimes, disproportionate response, and genocide.
Torture is torture. It isnt terrorism. Killing people by beheading may be more cold blooded than dropping bombs, but it isnt terrorism. Both Israel and the US media have used "terrorism" to justify indiscriminate killing of Palestinian civilians, which is an accurate description of virtually everyone killed by their bombs. Hamas militants make up a tiny percentage of Gaza residents.
Click to expand...

Israel would behave a lot differently if it didn't have U.S. bombs and weapons and the support of our government.

I don't care about how they are responding, I only care about how it's being supported by us.

Not good for things here at home.

The tunnels under the city are there mostly to smuggle in food and supplies, not weapons.

Haven't heard much about ukraine lately.?
 
Checkthisout said:
Israel would behave a lot differently if it didn't have U.S. bombs and weapons and the support of our government.

I don't care about how they are responding, I only care about how it's being supported by us.

Not good for things here at home.

The tunnels under the city are there mostly to smuggle in food and supplies, not weapons.

Haven't heard much about ukraine lately.?
Click to expand...
Its like we learned nothing at all from 9/11, and this time bidens open border will give them plenty of opportunities. If it wasnt so absurd we could accuse democrats of trying to destroy America.
 
Checkthisout said:
Israel would behave a lot differently if it didn't have U.S. bombs and weapons and the support of our government.

I don't care about how they are responding, I only care about how it's being supported by us.

Not good for things here at home.

The tunnels under the city are there mostly to smuggle in food and supplies, not weapons.

Haven't heard much about ukraine lately.?
Click to expand...
Pretty sure we arent gonna by the time russia absorbs it. Russia wasnt gonna lose it was just gonna take time. Not that I like the conclusion but it is what it is, and our foolish dumping of billions in aid surely just increased and prolonged the suffering.
 
Batvette said:
Some people call voting for Trump a despicable action.
The fact is "terrorism" does have an actual definition but now it seems to be used to villify enemies for propaganda use and to justify war crimes, disproportionate response, and genocide.
Torture is torture. It isnt terrorism. Killing people by beheading may be more cold blooded than dropping bombs, but it isnt terrorism.
Click to expand...
It sure is when you live stream it for family to watch and find or to personally being forced to watch. Are you that blind?
Batvette said:
Both Israel and the US media have used "terrorism" to justify indiscriminate killing of Palestinian civilians, which is an accurate description of virtually everyone killed by their bombs. Hamas militants make up a tiny percentage of Gaza residents.
Click to expand...
75% of Palestinians believe what Hamas did was just. Terrorism in the name of Allah (Religious beliefs) and training young children to hate will continue the violence.....
 
grizzzman said:
75% of Palestinians believe what Hamas did was just. Terrorism in the name of Allah (Religious beliefs) and training young children to hate will continue the violence.....
Click to expand...

Grizz, do you think this will cause the Gazans to have a change of heart and to begin to start loving their Israeli neighbors?

Do you think israelis are indoctrinated in love and exempt from being racist, and hating Muslims?

America first grizz. Our support for the israelis is going to cause ruin here at home. It's going to lead to terrorist attacks in which the same wealthy class of people who support Israel will use an excuse to curb our rights and freedoms here at home and which will result in a drastic decline in quality of life.
 
You guys are arguing the wrong point.
The leaders of both places are absolute dispicable scum who profit from this war.
There are no good guys in leaders of either place.
Both governments brainwash their populace to hate.
And people on both sides who succumb to the brainwashing are guilty.

But the important part is that this conflict is being used as distraction by the globalist do advance their agenda while people fight amongst each other on all these manufactured events

UN & Bill Gates Launch “50in5” Global Digital Infrastructure Plans​


Kit Knightly Last week the United Nations Development Program officially launched their new initiative promoting “Digital Public Infrastructure” (DPI) around the world. The “50in5…
off-guardian.org

The usual suspects - Billy Gates and Rockefeller foundation.

There’s nothing new there, for anyone who has been paying even the slightest bit of attention. Digital identity and digital payment systems are self-explanatory (and we’ve covered them before). “Data Exchange Systems” essentially means national governments will share identity and financial records of citizens across borders with other nations, or indeed with global government agencies.

The key word is “interoperable”.

As we have written before, the “global government” won’t be one single health care system, identity database, or digital currency – but dozens of notionally separate systems all carefully designed to be fully “interoperable”.

As well as being a project of the UNDP, UNICEF, and the Inter-American Development Bank, the 50in5 is funded by various globalist NGOs and non-profits including the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation and (indirectly through an NGO called “Co-Develop”) the Rockefeller Foundation.

The eleven counties taking part in the program so far are Bangladesh, Brazil, Estonia, Ethiopia, Guatemala, Moldova, Norway, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Sri Lanka, and Togo. A careful spread from every continent, including first, second, and third-world nations.

It is a list noteworthy for including NATO, EU, and BRICS members. Interesting implications on supposed “multipolarity” there.

In related news, on the exact same day the 50in5 program launched, the European Parliament and Council of Europe agreed on a new framework for a region-wide European Digital Identity (eID) system.

This comes on the back of announcements that the European Central Bank is moving on to the “next phase” of its Digital Euro plans this month. The digital euro will – according to former IMF (and apparent numerology nut) Christine Lagarde – afford some “limited control” over people’s spending.

India, another BRICS nation, has been at the forefront of DPI development for years, and now articles are appearing in publications like Forbes, claiming “India Has A Digital Infrastructure, America Needs One”.

At the same time, China is making strides toward ending online anonymity, while Western politicians like Nikki Haley say we should be doing the same.

As the world focuses on Hamas and Israel, the global re-organization phase of the Great Reset is just quietly going about its business. Building a net and waiting to tighten it.
 
Batvette said:
The fact is "terrorism" does have an actual definition but now it seems to be used to villify enemies for propaganda use and to justify war crimes, disproportionate response, and genocide.
Click to expand...

What is YOUR definition of terrorism? Please also give an example - doesn't necessarily have to be real, just outline the set of circumstances and acts that would fit your definition.
 
I'm personally fine with disproportionate response. The ultimate goal would be to take care of a problem, not "level up" with "eye for an eye" type nonsense.
 
Checkthisout said:
Grizz, do you think this will cause the Gazans to have a change of heart and to begin to start loving their Israeli neighbors?
Click to expand...
No.
Checkthisout said:
Do you think israelis are indoctrinated in love and exempt from being racist, and hating Muslims?
Click to expand...
No. I find it telling that you choose the word "indoctrinated" with the Israeli's and not the Gazans (Palestinians)

"
Checkthisout said:
America first grizz. Our support for the israelis is going to cause ruin here at home. It's going to lead to terrorist attacks in which the same wealthy class of people who support Israel will use an excuse to curb our rights and freedoms here at home and which will result in a drastic decline in quality of life.
Click to expand...
I am in support of the Isreali's. I do not support Hamas or anyone that that believes there barbarian Terrorist actions were justified. With that said let them deal with it. Not the USA.
 
grizzzman said:
No.

No. I find it telling that you choose the word "indoctrinated" with the Israeli's and not the Gazans (Palestinians)
Click to expand...

What did it tell you? Israelis are the most racist people on the face of the planet. They built their own country and put up a fence that says only people of certain ethnoreligion matter there.

grizzzman said:
I am in support of the Isreali's. I do not support Hamas or anyone that that believes there barbarian Terrorist actions were justified. With that said let them deal with it. Not the USA.
Click to expand...

Nobody says you support Hamas Grizz albeit I am sure you are scared of being labled as such. If you think it's just "Hamas" that has a problem with Israel, then you aint been paying attention. It's 1.8billion Muslims who hate that an ethnostate not of Islam exists around the Sinai.

Also, how can you support a country that is in direct opposition to the concept that "All men are created equal"? And what do you mean you when you say support? Are you over there helping them bomb apartments and flush Hamas out of tunnels? I don't think you are.

You're taking the riskless position because you are afraid of what will happen to you if you if you don't claim the only side you're allowed to claim. The same thing happened during covid and of course ukraine.
 
Checkthisout said:
What did it tell you? Israelis are the most racist people on the face of the planet. They built their own country and put up a fence that says only people of certain ethnoreligion matter there.
Click to expand...
People who tend to toss the "race" card tend to be the raciest. "Palestine" people if viewed over time tend to be violent.
Checkthisout said:
Nobody says you support Hamas Grizz albeit I am sure you are scared of being labled as such. If you think it's just "Hamas" that has a problem with Israel, then you aint been paying attention. It's 1.8billion Muslims who hate that an ethnostate not of Islam exists around the Sinai.
Click to expand...
You can call me what you want. So you are saying most Muslims are raciest towards Jews then?
Checkthisout said:
Also, how can you support a country that is in direct opposition to the concept that "All men are created equal"? And what do you mean you when you say support? Are you over there helping them bomb apartments and flush Hamas out of tunnels? I don't think you are.
Click to expand...
I simply support there right to protect themselves.
Checkthisout said:
You're taking the riskless position because you are afraid of what will happen to you if you if you don't claim the only side you're allowed to claim. The same thing happened during covid and of course ukraine.
Click to expand...
You can believe what you want.
 
klystron said:
What is YOUR definition of terrorism? Please also give an example - doesn't necessarily have to be real, just outline the set of circumstances and acts that would fit your definition.
Click to expand...
The oxford definition is:

the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

What Israel is doing to gaza now qualifies.
 
Batvette said:
The oxford definition is:

the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

What Israel is doing to gaza now qualifies.
Click to expand...
This would have never happened if the Gaza strip (Palestinian's) had not voted in a known Terrorist group (Hamas) into governmental control.
 
grizzzman said:
This would have never happened if the Gaza strip (Palestinian's) had not voted in a known Terrorist group (Hamas) into governmental control.
Click to expand...

The United States voted Joe Biden into power and cowered under covid mask and vaccine rules.

The arrogance of such judgements against others is laughable.
 
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