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400 amp main panel recommendations? (Norcal, PG&E)

I

IcarusPrime

New Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2024
Messages
10
Location
Central Coast California
Hello everyone!

I'm looking for recommendations on the best 400A main service panel that best support a full house, grid tied, battery backed, pv system. Optimally, one that also would allow us to plug in a portable generator in a worst case scenario.

Forgive me for being as noob as a person can be. My wife and I are expecting our 3rd child in 5 years and we bought a house. The child was planned the house sorta just happened. It was the perfect house for our life, within our budget so we had to make our move. We were renters before our purchase. Because of this, I hadn't had a chance to read up on everything on the forums. The house is a 1960's style MCM ranch and because of our limited budget for our part of the country, it's pretty much vintage 1960s electrical. We're in Monterey County with PG&E as our service provider.

The housing inspector said we need to upgrade our 70AMP service panel stat! We're on a budget so solar is a bit a ways away, like 3-4 years, but from my understanding our main service panel can have a significant affect on our PV potential. So, I'm trying to future proof as much as possible now. Hence why I'm asking for your help.

My plan for the house is to go super gadgety over the next 5-10 years. Multiple EV chargers, heat pump HVAC and water heaters, electric radiant floor heating, electric roll up blinds and smart everything.

I've read a lot of good things about square D main panels and their square D energy center looked like the way to go, however square D doesn't make a 400AMP version. I hear a lot of good things about siemens main panels as well and they do have 400AMP main panels that are PV ready and CA compliant.


The two I thought might be the right way to go were:

MC3042S1400SCS
MC3042S1400FCS

Any feedback or suggestions on this topic are most welcome!

-IP
 
IcarusPrime said:
Hello everyone!

I'm looking for recommendations on the best 400A main service panel that best support a full house, grid tied, battery backed, pv system. Optimally, one that also would allow us to plug in a portable generator in a worst case scenario.

Forgive me for being as noob as a person can be. My wife and I are expecting our 3rd child in 5 years and we bought a house. The child was planned the house sorta just happened. It was the perfect house for our life, within our budget so we had to make our move. We were renters before our purchase. Because of this, I hadn't had a chance to read up on everything on the forums. The house is a 1960's style MCM ranch and because of our limited budget for our part of the country, it's pretty much vintage 1960s electrical. We're in Monterey County with PG&E as our service provider.

The housing inspector said we need to upgrade our 70AMP service panel stat! We're on a budget so solar is a bit a ways away, like 3-4 years, but from my understanding our main service panel can have a significant affect on our PV potential. So, I'm trying to future proof as much as possible now. Hence why I'm asking for your help.

My plan for the house is to go super gadgety over the next 5-10 years. Multiple EV chargers, heat pump HVAC and water heaters, electric radiant floor heating, electric roll up blinds and smart everything.

I've read a lot of good things about square D main panels and their square D energy center looked like the way to go, however square D doesn't make a 400AMP version. I hear a lot of good things about siemens main panels as well and they do have 400AMP main panels that are PV ready and CA compliant.


The two I thought might be the right way to go were:

MC3042S1400SCS
MC3042S1400FCS

Any feedback or suggestions on this topic are most welcome!

-IP
Click to expand...

My house was built with 2 x 200 amp panels and has worked very well for me when I decided to add solar. I shifted everything I needed that my modest solar system could handle to one panel and the other panel remains connected to the grid. The cost of installing enough solar to cover my whole house would have far exceeded my ability to afford it.
 
DIYrich said:
Span.io
You didn't mention price limit.
Click to expand...
You are correct, I hadn’t put too much thought into it. I didn’t blink at the $3400ish square d energy center, I guess I’m willing to go that high. The SPAN looks to be $3400ish installed? The SPAN looks like a great option, but it’s like a more affordable square d energy center, with both being 200a only.
 
The Span does not include a meter base so that would be extra. A Span might eliminate the need for 400 Amp service because of its energy management capabilities.
 
sparrowhawk said:
My house was built with 2 x 200 amp panels and has worked very well for me when I decided to add solar. I shifted everything I needed that my modest solar system could handle to one panel and the other panel remains connected to the grid. The cost of installing enough solar to cover my whole house would have far exceeded my ability to afford it.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the input! I believe I read somewhere that the 2x200 is no longer allowed as of NEC 2020, but some jurisdictions are still using as the older NEC as their code basis. California has its own set of rules 🙄
 
Ampster said:
The Span does not include a meter base so that would be extra. A Span might eliminate the need for 400 Amp service because of its energy management capabilities.
Click to expand...
I’m not so sure as my plans were to future proof my upgrade by getting as much electrical bandwidth as possible. Although the Span would help make things more efficient I think the extra bandwidth given by a 400A service from both the utility side as well as how much extra solar capacity I can import in are going to be hard to replicate in the Span.

Also, if I’m relegated to 200A my 1st choice would be square d’s energy center due to the long company history and wide adoption of their products. This helps me feel more secure that there’ll be replacement breakers 20 years down the line.

Thanks 🙏🏽 for the input tho!
 
You could just get a 400A base feeding two 200A normal subpanels. Why pay early adopter fee/early adoption risk for smart panel unless you have life critical load shedding requirements. Wait 5-10 years and DIY a swap of those subpanels.

Multiple EVs can be managed with EVEMS, it is the most straightforward and high bang for the buck Energy Management System, easily 10x higher ROI than a Span or whatever, and objectively pretty mature apart from the control system being integrated with and cooperating with other EMS or a hybrid inverter/storage. You can install triple 48A charging on EVEMS and load sharing on 200A service and charge with close to 48A all night in the sharing group.
 
while I can appreciate future-proofing, 400A seems so much, 96kw ? what would be the loads for a 400A main panel ?
 
summit said:
while I can appreciate future-proofing, 400A seems so much, 96kw ? what would be the loads for a 400A main panel ?
Click to expand...
There are many reasons for 400A service.
I have customers with multiple houses on a lot, a main house, the detached 4 car garage with an apartment above it, and the outdoor kitchen area with a motherinlaw suite above.

Also, homes with several rooms, bedrooms, entertainment, etc.

The more square footage, the more circuits needed to serve the location.

Not to mention EV's support for outdoor features, etc.
 
First post is a little confusing TBH as someone from nearby, because there are counties within 2 hour drive of OP where coming on a DIY forum to ask about 400A service is super weird, as those are correlated with $4-10M+ houses. And most regulars here on the forum are in those counties.

And there wasn't enough of a description of the property to counteract that initial knee-jerk reaction. (IE if it was a multi-building ranch property on a few acres, sure fine).
 
So you are getting along fine with 70 amps?

How about a basic 200 amp panel with a 100 amp utility main breaker at the top and, 100 amp solar/battery/generator feed from the bottom.
Almost 50% more utility power and tons of solar.
 
Last edited:
time2roll said:
So you are getting along fine with 70 amps?

How about a basic 200 amp panel with a 100 amp utility main breaker at the top and, 100 amp solar/battery/generator feed from the bottom.
Almost 50% more utility power and tons of solar.
Click to expand...
If the service is going to be upgraded anyway it should be to the largest economical one for the requirements

I’m not even sure 100A is allowed with PG&E for service change requiring new conductors, minimum might be 200A

As well, there is no need to have 100A service with 100A backfeed, there appears to be a conceptual confusion here wrt what’s possible with affordable hardware. With 225A panel you can backfeed 70A with 200A service breaker, without doing anything slightly creative (80 IQ design)

120 IQ design: You can use a “bus” crafted from feeder splices to backfeed 200A solar back to 200A service while making it available to a 200A loads panel.
 
Another reason to target 200A… with electricity from PG&E at $.40-$.55/kWh, you need to be quite wealthy to afford paying such monthly bills as 200A will require, let alone 320 or 400

Now if you are cutting a 320A load calc back to the 200A range with solar and energy management system, it may be a good idea to install 320A service just in case the solar/EMS is misdesigned or breaks and you need to operate on grid for a while
 
hwy17 said:
Good chance PG&E will charge you for a transformer upgrade for 400A. But you could get lucky.

Project Cost Range

Project Cost Range
www.pge.com
Click to expand...

You can put in a higher amperage panel, meter, and main breaker without PG&E upgrading their service, if you aren't actually increasing loads.

They might leave existing transformer and wire for the overhead drop, in my case looks like 4 gauge maybe 2 gauge existing connection to old 100A panel will be moved over to my new 200A panel.

My planned 15kW PV was approved without needing upgrades. They said to inform them before adding major loads.

I was given an estimate of up to $3500, and I think a 25kVA transformer may be serving the entire block, but so far doesn't look like they will actually charge for the upgrade. 🤞

If an upgrade would serve multiple houses, then I don't think they are supposed to charge us.

For PV, my approach is to avoid 120% rule by not backfeeding a breaker panel, instead "load side tap" after main breaker, fans out to sub panels and PV safety switch. I'm using 100A switch, but you would want 200A if something like SolArk.
 
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