Absolute easiest whole house pv+battery support. Is this possible?

[1201]

So traditionally we've had grid tie inverters that connect to the main panel and push all the output to loads or the grid during the day,

Or

Battery backup systems where you have a protected loads panel that's supported by the battery inverter, usually for grid down power and because most inverters usually cannot support a whole house.

So with net metering going away and battery storage coming into it's own :

Are there hybrid inverters that can very simply tie into the main panel, like a grid tie inverter, supply/support loads from pv and battery during the day, and continue to support loads at night from battery?

So, say you have an inverter that can output 10kw- when loads are less than 10kw, the inverter provides all the power, but if loads are more than 10kw, the inverter supplies is 10kw and the grid supplies the rest?

I feel like this would be the simplest most affordable way to do pv and battery systems for people who have a stable grid

 

[timselectric]

So traditionally we've had grid tie inverters that connect to the main panel and push all the output to loads or the grid during the day,

Or

Battery backup systems where you have a protected loads panel that's supported by the battery inverter, usually for grid down power and because most inverters usually cannot support a whole house.

So with net metering going away and battery storage coming into it's own :

Are there hybrid inverters that can very simply tie into the main panel, like a grid tie inverter, supply/support loads from pv and battery during the day, and continue to support loads at night from battery?

So, say you have an inverter that can output 10kw- when loads are less than 10kw, the inverter provides all the power, but if loads are more than 10kw, the inverter supplies is 10kw and the grid supplies the rest?

I feel like this would be the simplest most affordable way to do pv and battery systems for people who have a stable grid

You are describing a hybrid AIO.
Like the EG4 18kpv.

 

[1201]

You are describing a hybrid AIO.
Like the EG4 18kpv.

I thought the 18k pv could do this but I've never seen any installs like this or even any videos where this was done.

I'll check out the manual.

 

[cdsolar]

I am not making a recommendation here, as I have not looked at this in detail, but this video looks promising for a critical loads panel setup...

It looks like he is just passing AC from his main panel through his Victron setup, to power his critical loads panel, and the only reason he has a transfer switch is in case he needs a generator.

Add panels and a charge controller and you have a renewable backup for some predefined critical loads (if I read him properly).

 

[1201]

I am not making a recommendation here, as I have not looked at this in detail, but this video looks promising for a critical loads panel setup...

Thanks for posting but the idea is to not even have a backup panel-just tie into the main panel and power all the circuits via solar and grid

 

[400bird]

If that's your requirement, you need a inverter that uses external CTs (current transducers)
That slightly limits your options and likely weeds out the bottom of the barrel stuff

I know Schneider, SolArk, and I'm pretty sure the newer EG4 releases.

 

[Tulex]

As pointed out, the EG4 will do that, as will the Sol-Ark 15K. Both have 200 amp pass through. You can wire grid directly to inverter, then main panel out of inverter. As long as grid is up, you'd never know you have an inverter. When you have PV, it will use it to reduce grid or charge batteries. If you have battery and lose grid, you won't even know grid is down. I believe both allow generator port to be used for a critical load panel if wanted.

 

[1201]

If that's your requirement, you need a inverter that uses external CTs (current transducers)
That slightly limits your options and likely weeds out the bottom of the barrel stuff

I know Schneider, SolArk, and I'm pretty sure the newer EG4 releases.

Thanks. I'm going to start tracking the inverters that do this.
I guess if the 18k pv can do this then the solark 15k must be able to as well.

I believe the growatt min series might be able to do this as well. I think @MajicDiver would know, and maybe some solid inverters

 

[1201]

As pointed out, the EG4 will do that, as will the Sol-Ark 15K. Both have 200 amp pass through. You can wire grid directly to inverter, then main panel out of inverter. As long as grid is up, you'd never know you have an inverter. When you have PV, it will use it to reduce grid or charge batteries. If you have battery and lose grid, you won't even know grid is down. I believe both allow generator port to be used for a critical load panel if wanted.

But I could also just connect the output of the inverter into the main panel correct? Not even any need for a passthrough?

 

[1201]

Reading the 18k pv manual it looks like this is one of the modes of operation, as @timselectric mentioned. And as @400bird mentioned it requires CTs.

Very interesting.

 

[Skypower]

You are describing a hybrid AIO.
Like the EG4 18kpv.

Agreed, I like it because it has a lot of the stuff built in you’d otherwise have to have in the periphery. Clean and a money saver. I just don’t know if they have without any question solved 100% zero export.

 

[timselectric]

I just don’t know if they have without any question solved 100% zero export.

I don't know if anyone has.
But I only see some of what people post in the forum.
I don't really pay much attention to the grid-tied stuff.

 

[MajicDiver]

growatt min series might be able to do this as well.

Yes, that is actually their intended purpose. Works very well that way. I thought you have one installed, ac coupled to something? All you have to do is put CT on the incoming L1/2 cables and add battery if you want battery power.

 

[DIYrich]

Of you want 99.9999% assurance you will never export to the grid, 2 options:
1) eg4 3000 in SBU mode. The inverter is not designed to export, but since it is connected to the grid, there is a slight risk.
2) any inverter, and use Chargeverter Version 2 to charge from grid when you need grid power. This option is 100%

Sol-ark is pretty safe. You can set it to draw the first 100 watts from the grid, which reduces the likelihood of inadvertant export (large load suddenly cuts off).

 

[1201]

Agreed, I like it because it has a lot of the stuff built in you’d otherwise have to have in the periphery. Clean and a money saver. I just don’t know if they have without any question solved 100% zero export.

I think the conclusion was you can never have 100% zero export. This would be more for the people who already have a connection agreement

 

[1201]

Yes, that is actually their intended purpose. Works very well that way. I thought you have one installed, ac coupled to something? All you have to do is put CT on the incoming L1/2 cables and add battery if you want battery power.

My system can't support the main panel night time loads from battery, only the backup panel

 

[MajicDiver]

I think the conclusion was you can never have 100% zero export.

Correct, there is no inverter out there that will control to EXACTLY zero export, it will drift a few watts either way. Some more than others.

Also, your utility power meter will never be exactly correct. With my incoming feed breaker open for more than 6 months now, my utility usage oscillates between 0-20 and occasionally 30 watts per hour.

 

[MajicDiver]

My system can't support the main panel night time loads from battery, only the backup panel

Because that’s the way you installed it.

 

[1201]

Correct, there is no inverter out there that will control to EXACTLY zero export, it will drift a few watts either way. Some more than others.

Also, your utility power meter will never be exactly correct. With my incoming feed breaker open for more than 6 months now, my utility usage oscillates between 0-20 and occasionally 30 watts per hour.

I believe they charge the power to run the meter to the customer but 30 wh sounds high for a meter.

Because that’s the way you installed it.

Correct. I just today found out the growatt can do this but it's ac coupled to a master inverter that doesn't support this.

 

[hwy17]

This is how Tesla has got Powerwall installation so fast and easy.

1. Backfeed breaker from Powerwall into a panel like a grid tie.

2. Pull the meter out, install the meter adapter, put the meter on.

Meter adapter serves both as the CTs for on grid zeroing and as the backup control switch that disconnects the utility and tells the inverter it is ok to island.

Can be fully installed in a couple hours.