Absolute easiest whole house pv+battery support. Is this possible?

[1201]

This is how Tesla has got Powerwall installation so fast and easy.

1. Backfeed breaker from Powerwall into a panel like a grid tie.

2. Pull the meter out, install the meter adapter, put the meter on.

Meter adapter serves both as the CTs for on grid zeroing and as the backup control switch that disconnects the utility and tells the inverter it is ok to island.

Can be fully installed in a couple hours.

I had no idea how they work. Thanks!

Something like they is going to be what just people who are already grid tied and just looking for battery storage would use I think

 

[hwy17]

I had no idea how they work. Thanks!

Something like they is going to be what just people who are already grid tied and just looking for battery storage would use I think

If we could get utilities to allow people to install meter adapters they're such an easy trick. But a lot of them don't like it. Tesla gets a pass from them when they don't want to "get in the way" of powerwalls.

Schneider is showing off an upcoming backfed system though, so that will be interesting too.

 

[Watts Happening]

I don't know if anyone has.
But I only see some of what people post in the forum.
I don't really pay much attention to the grid-tied stuff.

After probably 4-6 months of using my Sol-Ark I can confidently say it has not exported in any meaningful way. By that I mean, my meter reads every 15 minutes, my inverter is set to draw 20w continually and I have never had a negative reading.

That isn’t to say the competition can’t do it, I no longer follow the 18kpv development. But I do feel confident in the functionality of the Sol-Ark at this point, it has been 100% reliable for us. We also don’t push it very hard, it tends to have an output of 1-4kw, with spikes to 6-9kw during cooking or EV charging. It’s been rock solid.

 

[1201]

If we could get utilities to allow people to install meter adapters they're such an easy trick. But a lot of them don't like it. Tesla gets a pass from them when they don't want to "get in the way" of powerwalls.

Schneider is showing off an upcoming backfed system though, so that will be interesting too.

Adding regular CTs to the main panel to do the same thing would be easier imo. I haven't heard about the Schneider. Have a link?

 

[hwy17]

Adding regular CTs to the main panel to do the same thing would be easier imo. I haven't heard about the Schneider. Have a link?

It is, but it doesn't give you grid outage backup capability like a BCS.

 

[1201]

After probably 4-6 months of using my Sol-Ark I can confidently say it has not exported in any meaningful way. By that I mean, my meter reads every 15 minutes, my inverter is set to draw 20w continually and I have never had a negative reading.

That isn’t to say the competition can’t do it, I no longer follow the 18kpv development. But I do feel confident in the functionality of the Sol-Ark at this point, it has been 100% reliable for us. We also don’t push it very hard, it tends to have an output of 1-4kw, with spikes to 6-9kw during cooking or EV charging. It’s been rock solid.

I guarantee you they know how much you instantaneously import or export. My meter is read every 15 minutes but I've had intervals that show both import and export

 

[1201]

It is, but it doesn't give you grid outage backup capability like a BCS.

Oh! That's interesting. I had no idea that was even possible due to anti islanding rules. I wonder why other manufacturers don't offer that operation mode. It would be easy to do with CTs.

I guess the answer may be that CTs can be installed backwards, not installed at all, etc

 

[hwy17]

Oh! That's interesting. I had no idea that was even possible sure to anti islanding rules. I wonder why other manufacturers don't offer that operation mode. It would be easy to do with CTs.

I guess the answer may be that CTs can be installed backwards, not installed at all, etc

Yes the hard interlock rules we are used to with generators and such got bent when Tesla came along and said "no, we're smarter than you, we can network an islanding switch upstream of our backfeed, so just trust us".

Schneider can actually do it too, with the XW Pro, not with a slick meter adapter, but with a pricey BCS.

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Whole new wave of Schneider products are incoming, based on the same backfed designs. This time, they want to sell a whole main panel replacement that will have a built in BCS.

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I wonder if it will have the same kind of low frequency inverter internals as the XW. But proprietary batteries, so probably not gonna a lot of traction with us DIYers.

 

[MajicDiver]

Schneider can actually do it too, with the XW Pro, not with a slick meter adapter, but with a pricey BCS.

It’s just a fast automatic transfer switch right?

 

[hwy17]

It’s just a fast automatic transfer switch right?

Yes, with built in CTs too, so it can coordinate with the XW to do zero export while on grid, or isolate the house when the grid goes down.

I guess more like a straight switch than a transfer switch to be exact, it just switches the grid connection on or off.

 

[Watts Happening]

I guarantee you they know how much you instantaneously import or export. My meter is read every 15 minutes but I've had intervals that show both import and export

I don’t doubt the technology existing at all, I imagine I simply have a relatively dated meter.

 

[hwy17]

I don't think anyone can beat the Tesla meter adapter for ease of install though, as far as off grid battery operation. If you have permission, literally pull out the meter, put the adapter in, and put the meter back on. 2 minutes and you've got CTs and a BCS on any existing panel with no rewiring.

 

[MajicDiver]

I don’t doubt the technology existing at all, I imagine I simply have a relatively dated meter.

No, I don’t think the technology to measure exactly zero on a 200 amp feed (and do it at reasonable cost) exists.

Attached is my hourly meter readings for the last 24 hours, this a new meter installed within 3-4 years ago. The feed breaker is open. The electrical noise (I assume) in the meter causes it to show 10 watt-hours about half the time, some days it will spike to 20 or 30. My only point is no inverter can control to exactly 0 export and even if it did the utility meter can’t measure zero reliably.

Which is I assume is one reason “Watts Happening “ sets his to 20 import, which is wise.

 

[1201]

I don't think anyone can beat the Tesla meter adapter for ease of install though, as far as off grid battery operation. If you have permission, literally pull out the meter, put the adapter in, and put the meter back on. 2 minutes and you've got CTs and a BCS on any existing panel with no rewiring.
View attachment 196007

Funny because I'm looking to add CTs at my meter to have a more overall view. I have them on three sub panels so my data is not synced. I wonder if I can buy something like this by itself.

 

[Watts Happening]

No, I don’t think the technology to measure exactly zero on a 200 amp feed (and do it at reasonable cost) exists.

Attached is my hourly meter readings for the last 24 hours, this a new meter installed within 3-4 years ago. The feed breaker is open. The electrical noise (I assume) in the meter causes it to show 10 watt-hours about half the time, some days it will spike to 20 or 30. My only point is no inverter can control to exactly 0 export and even if it did the utility meter can’t measure zero reliably.

Which is I assume is one reason “Watts Happening “ sets his to 20 import, which is wise.

I additionally have the inverter downline of the main panel, set to feed a critical loads panel which is effectively the entire house. The CT's are located inside the unit and thus any backfeed has the potential to be absorbed by loads in my garage prior to arriving at the main panel.

 

[solar8484]

Funny because I'm looking to add CTs at my meter to have a more overall view. I have them on three sub panels so my data is not synced. I wonder if I can buy something like this by itself.

Keep in mind not all utilities allow the Tesla Backup Switch.

 

[1201]

I additionally have the inverter downline of the main panel, set to feed a critical loads panel which is effectively the entire house. The CT's are located inside the unit and thus any backfeed has the potential to be absorbed by loads in my garage prior to arriving at the main panel.

I like the strategery

 

[Watts Happening]

I like the strategery

I wish I could say it was 100% by design, but it was essentially a requirement with the location of the main panel. I didn’t have a reasonable location for a battery bank close enough to have it make sense.

Going this route also offered me the ability to rip the system out much easier if I ever decide to sell and move (assuming I wanted it to come with me).

Like everything, pros and cons. Thus far, it’s been nice having everything in conditioned space with easy access.