Advice on wood shop motors in off grid setting

[066logger]

Good evening everyone! I’m back with a new project lol. So in my never ending quest to be as self sufficient as possible I am working towards building a wood shop to process wood from my little sawmill.

Here’s where my problem lies. This shop isn’t going to be an everyday use shop, at least not the large power draw tools anyway. I have a solar system that one of the wonderful members here helped me get designed properly (thank you FilterGuy !) and with the addition of some used solar panels we have been cruising along in the house perfectly with 0 generator usage.

Okay. So my dilemma, one of the first tools I have purchased for this shop is a woodmaster 718 helical planer, it’s a beast of a machine, with an equally beastly electric requirement. In operation it uses up to 5 electric motors. The main planer drive is a farm duty 5hp motor, then a 5hp dust collector, 2-3.5hp routers and a 1/8hp feed motor. My aimes 6000 watt 18,000 surge inverter definitely was not a fan of the 5hp motor (be nice I know I’m a dummy for even trying, I didn’t realize motors can draw up to 5x rated amps on startup) and now I’m at a dilemma. I think my only option is a pto powered generator for my tractor (38.3 hp at the pto) to run something like this at home. I do have the option of a shop in town with grid power but then I have to transport all my wood there and back. Are there any other options in missing here? Thanks!

 

[hwy17]

What's the nameplate amps on the whole planer and what kind of plug does it have? Or does it have multiple plugs?

 

[066logger]

What's the nameplate amps on the whole planer and what kind of plug does it have? Or does it have multiple plugs?

Haha it’s a bit convoluted. It has 5 plugs lol. Here are the name plates and I believe the plugs on the two 5hp motors are nema 6-30 I believe. 3 prongs 2- flat and a ground. The first nameplate on the large farm duty motor is faded but i believe it says FLA 23 if the picture isn’t clear enough.

 

[hwy17]

Google says they're a 30 amp machine. It's within the realm of possibility that a Schneider XW could run this, but I'm not sure about anything on 24v. Victron might have a way to do it on 24v for lots of money.

 

[Rocketman]

You may want to research soft starts. I put a Micro-Air soft start on my RV air conditioner so my Victron Multiplus can start it up and run it…

But my guess is you will need a massive inverter/battery/system to run all that.

 

[hwy17]

Oh jeez, 30 amps is just one of the five plugs lol. yeah maybe PTO generator is right.

 

[066logger]

Oh jeez, 30 amps is just one of the five plugs lol. yeah maybe PTO generator is right.

Yeah lol. That’s kinda what I’m thinking. That or going full on Amish paradise and converting it to gasoline powered. We have some Amish communities around here and if you have never seen a gasoline powered well pump they have them . No electricity involved, just a gas motor and and air compressor.

 

[066logger]

You may want to research soft starts. I put a Micro-Air soft start on my RV air conditioner so my Victron Multiplus can start it up and run it…

But my guess is you will need a massive inverter/battery/system to run all that.

Yeah… I’m thinking it’s past the realm of what I want to build in a solar system. Our system is currently great for what we need 95% of the time and I’m just not sure it’s a smart move to oversize so massively for such an infrequent load…

 

[066logger]

Oh jeez, 30 amps is just one of the five plugs lol. yeah maybe PTO generator is right.

Do you have any advice on those? I’m reading a bit online and it looks like I need a little over 100 amps to start each 5hp motor. But reading I’m even pushing my tractor to get to a 25kw pto powered generator. Is it even going to be possible to start one motor, then once it’s online bring the next one up without literally bogging out a 46hp diesel motor just to run a planer ?

 

[hwy17]

Do you have any advice on those? I’m reading a bit online and it looks like I need a little over 100 amps to start each 5hp motor. But reading I’m even pushing my tractor to get to a 25kw pto powered generator. Is it even going to be possible to start one motor, then once it’s online bring the next one up without literally bogging out a 46hp diesel motor just to run a planer ?

I don't think you have to size a generator for peak surge. They can naturally surge better than most inverters. I couldn't really know but I suspect that a quality 10kW or 15kW might do it.

 

[066logger]

I don't think you have to size a generator for peak surge. They can naturally surge better than most inverters. I couldn't really know but I suspect that a quality 10kW or 15kW might do it.

I have never gotten to deal with any electric motors in this size and in the past looking at the name plate got me good enough to not have any issues. But even my gas generator that’s 8kw 13.5kw starting watts just made the magnetic starter go crazy on the main motor and even with the belts off free spooling the motor it would start to spin up but with massive vibration and obviously something not right. (Again very dumb and hopefully I didn’t hurt anything, I shut it down as soon as I realized it was a no go). The fellow I bought it from fired it up and ran it just fine on grid power so I know the motor runs fine with the proper amount of power.

 

[50ShadesOfDirt]

As this is just the first of many power-hungry tools that will accrete in your type of wood shop, I think I'd go with a hd shop power source, like a diesel gen ...

Both tractor (for pto) or diesel-gen can be "used" (depending on which route you go), so perhaps that gives you some options in the used marketplace. You need a diesel power source for the shop, as you are off-grid. The wood shop really needs a grid connection, or for us off-grid folks, grid-like power from the tractor/pto-gen, or diesel-gen.

I don't have such a shop (yet), as I have to build the shop (barn) first ... but the planning (and lust for it) is there ...

All of this may take an electrician to wire it all up correctly, once you've outlined enough of the shop futures that the electrician can plan it out and get it going for you.

Hope this helps ...

 

[Mattb4]

Since your usage is only occasional I would suggest a good quality used diesel genset. Something in the 30kW+ range.

 

[NC_hydro]

Will it work on 3 phase power? That would be the way to go, three inverters setup in three phase. Much more efficient. And DEFINITELY go 48v lol

 

[066logger]

As this is just the first of many power-hungry tools that will accrete in your type of wood shop, I think I'd go with a hd shop power source, like a diesel gen ...

Both tractor (for pto) or diesel-gen can be "used" (depending on which route you go), so perhaps that gives you some options in the used marketplace. You need a diesel power source for the shop, as you are off-grid. The wood shop really needs a grid connection, or for us off-grid folks, grid-like power from the tractor/pto-gen, or diesel-gen.

I don't have such a shop (yet), as I have to build the shop (barn) first ... but the planning (and lust for it) is there ...

All of this may take an electrician to wire it all up correctly, once you've outlined enough of the shop futures that the electrician can plan it out and get it going for you.

Hope this helps ...

I’m thinking a dual powered shop will serve me best. A small 240v sub panel from my house for the everyday loads, lights, battery chargers and outlets for my metal working tools. (I’ve got a small grizzly mill/drill 1.5hp I believe and a small lathe that’s around the same size) and then a separate sub panel that will be wired to my other shop where the tractor will be stored so I can just plug in the generator and run the tractor while it’s still under cover. I’m leaning towards the pto generator as it’s one less motor to maintain, my tractor has only accumulated 300ish hours in the decade I’ve owned it and being a non turbo kubota diesel is already probably pretty similar in size and quality of the engine that I would find in a diesel gen set. But mine only has 300 hours compared to in the used market engines are 5-15,000 hours into their life and diesel motors aren’t particularly cheap to rebuild (that I do know ). And those larger gen sets fetch a premium around here $5,000+ whereas there’s a 35kw generac pto generator for $1,250 right down the road from me.

 

[066logger]

Will it work on 3 phase power? That would be the way to go, three inverters setup in three phase. Much more efficient. And DEFINITELY go 48v lol

I think 3 phase would require different motors wouldn’t it? The little bit of research I did (as these machines are often 3phase and 3 phase models are cheaper as it isn’t a common grid connection around here) was that you would have to swap the motors to go that route.

 

[NC_hydro]

I think 3 phase would require different motors wouldn’t it? The little bit of research I did (as these machines are often 3phase and 3 phase models are cheaper as it isn’t a common grid connection around here) was that you would have to swap the motors to go that route.

Possibly, three phase motors tend to be very affordable. Overall cost and complexity you’re probably best going with the PTO generator. Large wood working equipment is one of the reasons I’m going dual 10k victrons.

 

[066logger]

Since your usage is only occasional I would suggest a good quality used diesel genset. Something in the 30kW+ range.

I’ve definitely looked into them, the worst part is I’m not sure the negatives outweigh the positives in my use case. First off another engine to maintain (battery, coolant, oil, keeping stupid mice out etc) and in the used market I’m looking at $5,000+ for a machine that’s got 5-15,000 hours on it. Vs my tractor only has 300 hours, it’s a 46hp (engine hp, 38pto hp) kubota non turbo diesel that gets used regularly enough here on the farm that the battery doesn’t go dead but in a decade I’ve only put 300 hours on it. The pto generators are cheap here ($1,250.00 for 35kw generac) and they have a much smaller footprint than a similarly sized engine drive generator since I’ve gotta store my tractor regardless…

 

[42OhmsPA]

Victron system could do it but the ROI might be awhile
Found this video a while back, awesome system.

 

[066logger]

Possibly, three phase motors tend to be very affordable. Overall cost and complexity you’re probably best going with the PTO generator. Large wood working equipment is one of the reasons I’m going dual 10k victrons.

Yeah? 3phase is something I have 0 experience with lol. It runs right overhead my shop in town but my experience has been getting a transformer and pole set to go 3 phase and the included electric bill (shop is currently not hooked to the grid at all) are astronomically expensive $10-20,000. The dual victrons would be sweet! How big of a motor do you think you can run on 20kw? Just for my figuring