Advice for taking historic mansion in the country completely off grid

[Angeltech]

Hi, I am restoring an historic mansion out in the country. It currently has access to power thru electric company but the house still has the knob and tube wiring which cannot take much power(I will eventually update wiring in parts of the house so it will handle modern power requirements). I was looking to purchase a portable solar generator for around $2-3k to power my needs for now, like; tv/stereo, pc, power tools, etc. My question is what would be the absolute minimum investment to start a complete off-grid system? I can add batteries,etc. as time goes on. I can hold off on needing more power at the moment because I can do others things with my time in the house, plastering, repointing brick/mortar. I would rather invest my money into a complete system instead of a portable generator, even if it is not up and running. Like I said, I can refrain from using pc, tv., power tools, etc.,etc. for now. I can’t really spend more than $3-5k to begin with but as I stated, l will add to it in the near future. Any help would absolutely be appreciated.

 

[MisterSandals]

My question is what would be the absolute minimum investment to start a complete off-grid system?

You need to do a power audit to identify how many watt hours a day you are looking to power now and in the future.
Scaling minimal systems to whole house scale systems later is nearly impossible. But without knowing system requirements, thats a gut feel.

 

[Supervstech]

I kinda like K&T wiring. I still have some in my kitchen, and a few other areas.

The circuits are usually #10 copper, and soldered connections.

Sure, it’s a SINGLE circuit for the entire house usually… but if it’s all intact, it can handle a lot.

Zero grounding involved of course…

So, that should be your first upgrade, and set an arc fault breaker on the feeders… see if they can stay energized.
If there is sustained leakage into the Timbers, you won’t be able to keep arc faults energized long.
And that would be an indicator you need to focus on the leaking branches.

 

[SparkyGage]

What MisterSandals said, but you may already be pretty low consumption if the wiring is as old and low capacity as you state. What type of heat and air do you (not) have? What appliances do you (not) have and plan to use? What have you already done to lower the consumption in the house?

 

[Angeltech]

You need to do a power audit to identify how many watt hours a day you are looking to power now and in the future.
Scaling minimal systems to whole house scale systems later is nearly impossible. But without knowing system requirements, thats a gut feel.

Thank you for the reply. Of course I am absolutely no expert but I want at least 20kwh. I will have a lot of power needs. The mansion is almost 5,000 sq.ft. so the furnace will need to heat that much home. I will be building a wood shop, etc. I have over 6 acres so I plan on having 24 solar panels.

 

[Angeltech]

I kinda like K&T wiring. I still have some in my kitchen, and a few other areas.

The circuits are usually #10 copper, and soldered connections.

Sure, it’s a SINGLE circuit for the entire house usually… but if it’s all intact, it can handle a lot.

Zero grounding involved of course…

So, that should be your first upgrade, and set an arc fault breaker on the feeders… see if they can stay energized.
If there is sustained leakage into the Timbers, you won’t be able to keep arc faults energized long.
And that would be an indicator you need to focus on the leaking branches.

I like the old k&t wiring also. It is a misnomer that you have to replace it. If it is in good shape it is still fine to use. My house still has the push button switches in the parlor rooms.

 

[Angeltech]

What MisterSandals said, but you may already be pretty low consumption if the wiring is as old and low capacity as you state. What type of heat and air do you (not) have? What appliances do you (not) have and plan to use? What have you already done to lower the consumption in the house?

Hello, the heat is powered by propane at the moment but I am not familiar with the size or exact type of furnace. I will not be back the house for a few more days. It cost me $500 a month last year and that was keeping the house at only 50 degrees. I am actually trying to take house off-grid almost completely. I have an ice box, so I will have no refrigerator. I have an antique wood burning stove to use in the kitchen( I have a lot of trees on the property so it is free fuel).

 

[MisterSandals]

I have over 6 acres so I plan on having 24 solar panels.

How many watts per panel? This is a good starting bit of info.

I want at least 20kwh.

In january you need:
20000Wh / 3.08h = 6500W of solar (24x 270W panels)

In july
20000Wh / 5.52h = 3623W of solar (24x 150W panels)

 

[KITROBASKIN]

Check the attic to see if there are bare conductors isolated with ceramic knob kind of things like old timey pole hung phone lines?

 

[Angeltech]

Thank you for the info. I will definitely be going for the overkill, so 270w. panels.

 

[SparkyGage]

Hello, the heat is powered by propane at the moment but I am not familiar with the size or exact type of furnace. I will not be back the house for a few more days. It cost me $500 a month last year and that was keeping the house at only 50 degrees. I am actually trying to take house off-grid almost completely. I have an ice box, so I will have no refrigerator. I have an antique wood burning stove to use in the kitchen( I have a lot of trees on the property so it is free fuel).

Homesteading motto: 1=none, 2=1, 3=done. With a 5k sqft house you need to be thinking about zones and redundancy. All in one might be cheaper to buy, but wiring, ducting and plumbing would be complicated to say the least. I'm about to split my sub 2k house into two zones. The first thing I would look at is insulation, air circulation, and draft control and moisture control. Am I reading correctly that you are in Illinois?

As to that icebox, do you have an ice house to store ice made the old time way? i.e. freezing blocks in the winter? If you are having to MAKE ICE with a freezer, the math says you would be better off with a fridge.

 

[Angeltech]

Yes the house is in Illinois. It is actually insulated, plus all of the walls are brick, interior and exterior so it holds heat in the winter and stays cool in the summer w/o ac. As for the ice box, I am digging a pond(will have to wait until spring) for the ice and I am turning the smokehouse into an ice house. If your just curious, my house is listed on google maps. Just type Shriver farmstead. It also has it’s own Wikipedia page.

 

[Partimewages]

Check out geothermal HVAC for your heat and hot water.

 

[Angeltech]

Check out geothermal HVAC for your heat and hot water.

I will, thank you for the help.

 

[Angeltech]

Check the attic to see if there are bare conductors isolated with ceramic knob kind of things like old timey pole hung phone lines?

Yes there is

 

[Supervstech]

Yes the house is in Illinois. It is actually insulated, plus all of the walls are brick, interior and exterior so it holds heat in the winter and stays cool in the summer w/o ac. As for the ice box, I am digging a pond(will have to wait until spring) for the ice and I am turning the smokehouse into an ice house. If your just curious, my house is listed on google maps. Just type Shriver farmstead. It also has it’s own Wikipedia page.

Nice place.
I see it has gravity ductwork. Is it on all levels?

 

[Angeltech]

Thank you. The ductwork is on the first and second floor but not the third floor. In fact, there is no electricity on the third floor and the only plumbing in the house is in the very back where the kitchen and only bathroom are located.

 

[Partimewages]

Are you going to upgrade all MEPs in the house?

 

[Supervstech]

Old houses like this prove difficult to renovate to modern standards. The timber is MASSIVE, and much harder than modern choices. Just drilling holes leads to problems. Ya need carbide bits and frequent bit changes, the walls aren’t the same dimensions as modern homes, so parts require splicing… all the plaster and lath means tiny jobs usually snowball…
It’s not a job for average diy.

So rewarding when accomplished though.
My home is 123 years old, and is a mismatch of generations of construction…

Have fun.

 

[Skypower]

The funny thing about really old houses is realizing how small people were