diy solar

diy solar

Are solar panels installers overcharging for materials?

I'm in the UK and started getting quotes around April May, the companies I contacted often quoted ridiculous prices, and for what they wanted to install, not what I was asking for. As the year has gone on, things have just got even worse, as customer demand has spiked due to really high electric prices, availability of parts has decreased due to supply issues and demand. Installers are so busy some even charge just to do a quote, and the quotes they come up with are really high.

So I decided to do my own install, but I had to find an electrician, which I did, I'm only now just ordering the major parts, but it coming together slowly, then I just need to get the electrician in to do his part.

Getting an electrician do an installation for you is DIY+. You can architect the system, select your components and source them from vendors if your choice.

The installation itself will cost more than if you did it yourself but should cost substantially less than a solar installer would charge (especially if you take care of non-electrical aspects such as mounting racking systems on your roof, etc…

You’ll be taking far less risk of ending up with an installation that is electrically, you’ll end up with the system you wanted, and you should save a pretty penny.

You’ll be responsible for managing any warranty issues yourself but so do any of us DIYers.
 
After having had a few quotes for solar panels, it seems like they are overcharging for the materials.

Just like the restaurant at our marina charging 300% more for a bottle of wine that I can get it from the supermarket ?.
 
@fafrd I've DIYed pretty much everything all my life, including structural building work, used to do my own electric years ago as well, but regulations have been tightened, and with something as advanced as what I'm currently doing I had to get an electrician involved if I wanted to stay on the right side of the regulations, and for my house insurance to still be valid.
 
@fafrd I've DIYed pretty much everything all my life, including structural building work, used to do my own electric years ago as well, but regulations have been tightened, and with something as advanced as what I'm currently doing I had to get an electrician involved if I wanted to stay on the right side of the regulations, and for my house insurance to still be valid.
Nice. My neighbor is an electrician, so I’m in a pretty similar situation (but it generally only costs me a few beers :)).
 
Just like the restaurant at our marina charging 300% more for a bottle of wine that I can get it from the supermarket ?.
But does you restaurant charge 600% more just because they are busy? That really is what is happening in the UK, not six times the price, but as they've got busier and demand has increased, installation prices have increased a lot. I've nothing against a company making a reasonable profit, but when they take the micky as a lot are now, I call it profiteering. Something which cost £8000 back in April/May time, is now £12,000 or more, which is a 50% increase.


@fafrd Hate to think what mines going to cost, but I'm doing as much as I can to keep those costs down.
 
Supply and demand. I’ve been to crazy busy restaurants with crazy high prices for a burger, where I could have just made a burger at home. . .

Same can be said for auto repair, I was told by two local shops they had no available appointment for 3 weeks and their hourly rate also increased, shocking I know.

If you don’t want to pay their prices, no one is forcing you too. Or would you rather have state controlled over reach over what business’s should charge . . .
 
@740GLE Exactly why I'm building my own system, to get what I want and not be ripped off for something I didn't want.

When I engage with a business, I expect to be treated fairly, not be taken advantage of, and to be listened to, which is exactly how I look after our customers at work.

And no I would not pay well over the odds for a burger, some us don't have money to waste, some of us are more careful with our money, and when times are hard we don't struggle like those that are not careful.
 
But does you restaurant charge 600% more just because they are busy? That really is what is happening in the UK, not six times the price, but as they've got busier and demand has increased, installation prices have increased a lot. I've nothing against a company making a reasonable profit, but when they take the micky as a lot are now, I call it profiteering. Something which cost £8000 back in April/May time, is now £12,000 or more, which is a 50% increase.


@fafrd Hate to think what mines going to cost, but I'm doing as much as I can to keep those costs down.
If you can handle all the mechanical installation and even assist with electrical, I’d assume you could get by with a generic electrician with little/no solar experience who you just pay by the hour.

Of course, if the rules over there require certified solar electricians who are the ones in such high demand, your probably back to paying current inflated market prices.

Have you done a solar install before?
 
@fafrd I found a generic electrician who had just decided to get into to solar, most generic electricians won't touch solar, they are busy enough to not need to get involved in something they don't understand or know the regulations of.

I'm a bit apprehensive at what he's going to charge, but doing what I'm doing I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place as the saying goes. Take a look at the thread I linked to a few posts back, and you'll see what I'm capable of.

I've not done a solar install before, we do have an existing solar install that was done in 2015, but we had to use an MCS registered installer to qualify for FITS payments, those FITS payments, and the saving on electric has now paid for that installation, we'll get the FITS payments for 25 years, so the next 18 are all profit unless repairs are required. Unfortunately FITS for new installations came to an end a few years back.
 
You folks make it seem like solar is something special to install.
I just did my first and only install on my own house and I could teach a first year apprentice in his first month how to do ALL of the install on the roof/ground mount. The wiring is made so a monkey could connect the panels in series. Toughest part on the roof is #1 don't fall off, and #2 make sure to find the joists/trusses for the anchors.
As to grid connections you're just back feeding a breaker.......
Like I said never done one before, opened up a code book, did my due diligence, up and running no issues with the local code inspectors or utility.
 
@fafrd I found a generic electrician who had just decided to get into to solar, most generic electricians won't touch solar, they are busy enough to not need to get involved in something they don't understand or know the regulations of.
Hopefully you can establish a good relationship with him and he agrees to give you some discount on his usual hourly rate for periods he’s taking longer than he should because he is ‘learning’.

Even more importantly than that, will he allow you to help with the electrical work (and just inspect to sign off on what you have done)?
I'm a bit apprehensive at what he's going to charge, but doing what I'm doing I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place as the saying goes. Take a look at the thread I linked to a few posts back, and you'll see what I'm capable of.
Scrolled back to the top of this page and didn’t see anything, so please repost the link.

In general, if you have planned a relatively simple, straightforward system, solar is pretty easy to install. I’ve done a 4kW AC-coupled system and a 1kW DC-coupled system myself without any prior experience. Wiring up 240VAC or low-voltage DC does not make me the least bit apprehensive, though I start to feel that way when considering wiring up high-voltage DC strings (which is why I’ve avoided them).

Mechanical installation is a huge part of the know-how and the cost, so if you have the wherewithal to select and install a racking system yourself, you should be able to significantly reduce installer costs.

If the install requires you to daw up plans including mechanical / roof mount which must be approved for a permit, that might be a hairball that could cost you a lot unless you can figure out how to relate those plans yourself.

Here in California, they offer a ‘simple plan’ template which makes it very easy for a homeowner to draw up plans as long as your installation satisfies a checklist to qualify as ‘simple’.

Not sure whether anything like that exists over there, but my advise would be to understand planning and permitting requirements before committing to this path. If you’re electrician will cost you more to figure out the planning and permitting process than any savings he may represent, you may be better off going with experienced installers for whole the planning and permitting process is cookie-cutter…
I've not done a solar install before, we do have an existing solar install that was done in 2015, but we had to use an MCS registered installer to qualify for FITS payments, those FITS payments, and the saving on electric has now paid for that installation, we'll get the FITS payments for 25 years, so the next 18 are all profit unless repairs are required. Unfortunately FITS for new installations came to an end a few years back.
Based on what you have indicated, if you have not already done so, I’d suggest you get very familiar with the local building department that will be permitting and inspecting your install to understand in detail what requirements they have.
 
You folks make it seem like solar is something special to install.
I just did my first and only install on my own house and I could teach a first year apprentice in his first month how to do ALL of the install on the roof/ground mount. The wiring is made so a monkey could connect the panels in series. Toughest part on the roof is #1 don't fall off, and #2 make sure to find the joists/trusses for the anchors.
As to grid connections you're just back feeding a breaker.......
Like I said never done one before, opened up a code book, did my due diligence, up and running no issues with the local code inspectors or utility.
I hope you are not referring to me - as I just stated, except for when I get into high DC voltages above my general experience level, there is nothing about solar installation to be worried about (assuming that one way or the other you are certain he AC and low-voltage DC electrical is to code).

If DIY includes skipping a permit or an inspection, go for it.

But if you will require a building plan approved for a permit and an eventual inspection that is where all the complexity lies (in my experience).

California has made that process relatively easy for DIY residential solar installations, but I believe that is the exception rather than the rule…
 
@fafrd Local planning shouldn't need to get involved, as the actual panel install is covered by permitted development. However the electrical work is, specifically the mains 240v, and a qualified electrician should be used, they will sign off the work and notify the local council - in the UK it's reffered to as Part P. You can do electrical work yourself, and the council would have to inspect it, but many will not, and it can get horribly complicated. My install is a whole house back up, I've diverted the incoming mains via my garage which will house a Victron Quattro 48/10000 and around 28kWh of batteries.

I'm not great with digesting lots of technical info, remembering it, and then making sure its done 100% right, hence also using an electrician.

For those that think its easy, I wonder just how many of used the wrong type breakers, which if wired incorrectly could actually catch fire in a fault scenario?


 
@fafrd Local planning shouldn't need to get involved, as the actual panel install is covered by permitted development. However the electrical work is, specifically the mains 240v, and a qualified electrician should be used, they will sign off the work and notify the local council - in the UK it's reffered to as Part P. You can do electrical work yourself, and the council would have to inspect it, but many will not, and it can get horribly complicated. My install is a whole house back up, I've diverted the incoming mains via my garage which will house a Victron Quattro 48/10000 and around 28kWh of batteries.

I'm not great with digesting lots of technical info, remembering it, and then making sure its done 100% right, hence also using an electrician.

For those that think its easy, I wonder just how many of used the wrong type breakers, which if wired incorrectly could actually catch fire in a fault scenario?


OK, so it sounds like as far as planning, permitting, and inspection, you’ve got nothing to worry about except for electrical.

For the AC electrical work itself, your electrician should be able to help you with sufficient efficiency so that it does not cost you an arm and a leg in terms of hours.

From my perspective, all of the ‘risk’ in this project and the potential hairball you run into centers on the battery (possibly including the DC wiring depending on your electrician’s experience with DC).

I have a similar DIY battery to yours I’m my basement (but not nearly as attractive as yours).

California will not allow me to get a permit ir pass an inspection with a DIY LiFeOO4 battery.

If/when I complete my system and want to get it permitted and inspected, I will need to ditch my DIY 14kWh LiFePI4 battery for an OTS battery on California’s list of ‘approved’ batteries.

I believe that Victron is listed for residential install in the UK, do you should have no issues there, but I’d suggest that you or your electrician look into permitting / inspection requirements as far as batteries before getting ahead of yourself.

They ‘grey zone’ that many exploit over here in California is to get permitted and ivspected got a modest-size battery backup system using a small number of Lead Acid batteries which they then switch out for larger LiFePO4 batteries (either DIY or OTS but not on the ‘approved’ list) once the inspection has been passed.

You’ve got your electrician involved, so whether you wire up AC breakers and he signs off on the AC wiring and the breaker sizing, you should have little to worry about there.

You should familiarize yourself with DC wiring and DC breaker sizing enough to not be nervous about it (especially if you are using a DIY battery) and you should also understand the level of experience your electrician has with DC wiring before moving forward with him.

Any licensed electrician will have little difficulty understanding DC wiring and safety requirements for DC wiring, but if your electrician has no experience with ether, you’ll be paying him a lot of hours to learn.

Spending those hours yourself and paying the electrician only to check the rules / regulations you followed and to confirm you interpreted them all correctly should cost you much less of his time (and will benefit you from reducing / eliminating your nervousness).
 
But does you restaurant charge 600% more just because they are busy? That really is what is happening in the UK, not six times the price, but as they've got busier and demand has increased, installation prices have increased a lot. I've nothing against a company making a reasonable profit, but when they take the micky as a lot are now, I call it profiteering. Something which cost £8000 back in April/May time, is now £12,000 or more, which is a 50% increase.


@fafrd Hate to think what mines going to cost, but I'm doing as much as I can to keep those costs down.
not just the UK, i think this is the same deal all over the EU too...
 
Yes, avarice is alive and well in the solar industry-and that's a sad thing. There's a recent youtube video of predacious installer practices via investigative reporting by one of the local news channels in the greater Atlanta area. It's a real eye opener.
 
It’s not always the installer’s add on. I contacted a friend-electrician about his source for unistrut. I checked their prices and were 50% higher than Home Depot’s or Lowe’s for the same thing! My friend said that he had just taken for granted that he was getting good pricing because it was the “place” all the contractors went and just didn’t have the time to shop around. He’s made the time now.
 
I’m not understanding your question.

If you never have an equipment failure, the ‘value’ of a local party providing warranty service can be debated.

But the hassle of getting a manufacturer to make good on a warranty claim when there is an actual equipment failure is substantial (especially widen the equipment/panel supplier is in China).

So my only advice to my friends who do not want to go the DIY route and elect to pay a significant premium for an installation company is: ‘focus your attention on which installation companies have the best chance of still being in business 20 years from now rather than which companies are offering you the lowest cost.’

Paying for a high-priced professional installation and finding yourself left holding the bag several years later when there is a problem and you discover the company you engaged for the install is no longer in business is the Penalty Box you want to stay out of…
I don't think you would have to fight with Enphase for any warranty issue. If you are going to do it yourself I would only go with Enphase. Not sure you gonna get that kind of service what any of this other equipment. NO I don't sell Enphase but I own there stuff and they are top notch.

You will have more issues with the installer than you ever will with Enphase.



.
 
I don't think you would have to fight with Enphase for any warranty issue. If you are going to do it yourself I would only go with Enphase. Not sure you gonna get that kind of service what any of this other equipment. NO I don't sell Enphase but I own there stuff and they are top notch.

You will have more issues with the installer than you ever will with Enphase.



.
I agree - Enphase costs more but at least they will be around to back up their warranty.

I have no idea how things get handled when you had an Enphase system installed by a Solar Company that went under, but your chances of getting Enphase to make you whole are higher than with other brands…
 
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