diy solar

diy solar

Assuming you pay $0.12/KWh, can you ever come out ahead going full offgrid?

Is it just me or is it not the coolest thing (Pun Intended) to crank down your AC on a hot summer day and see that the Sun outside is powering it for free. :love:
Our lifestyle before solar and after solar is very different. Yeah, no more considerations about where to set the AC Cooling temp, no one cares about a computer left running, or lights left on.

We have run into one problem however.. People who wear eye glasses will understand.. what happens when you come inside after shoving snow? Your cold eyeglasses meet the warm humid air inside and instantly fog up.

I've never had that happen during the summer, until after we got on solar. The air conditioning had the house at about 67 degrees, when I went outside in the 90+ humid weather, my damn glasses fogged up.
 
Our lifestyle before solar and after solar is very different. Yeah, no more considerations about where to set the AC Cooling temp, no one cares about a computer left running, or lights left on.

We have run into one problem however.. People who wear eye glasses will understand.. what happens when you come inside after shoving snow? Your cold eyeglasses meet the warm humid air inside and instantly fog up.

I've never had that happen during the summer, until after we got on solar. The air conditioning had the house at about 67 degrees, when I went outside in the 90+ humid weather, my damn glasses fogged up.
Get contacts
 
Get contacts

No way. Too much trouble. Plus, my eyeglasses have saved my eyes more times than I can count.

I had contacts when I was younger.. didn't like all the maintenance.. having to take them out before bed, then put them back in..

Plus, now that I'm pushing 60 years old, I wear transition bifocals.
 
No way. Too much trouble. Plus, my eyeglasses have saved my eyes more times than I can count.
Wow I have had the same experience. One case in particular was life changing. A guy was using a sledgehammer on a concrete surface and a 1” piece of concrete flew up and hit my right lens with so much force it broke the lens out of the frame and left a red bruise around my eye socket. If I had not had on glasses my right eye would have been gone. I use to wear contacts but they always left me feeling vulnerable.
I had contacts when I was younger.. didn't like all the maintenance.. having to take them out before bed, then put them back in..
Same here.
Plus, now that I'm pushing 60 years old, I wear transition bifocals.
 
Do you guys not have any standing charges? Electricity cost in Spain varies but generally 12 - 15 cents / kWh but once the standing charges, tax, meter rental etc etc are added on it works out nearer to 60 cents / kWh. Our system 4.2kW panels, 5kw inverter and 5.12kWh battery provides more power than we used when we were on grid (we can easily get 300 kWh per month and a lot more if we could use it) and cost 6000€ (including back up generator). Payback is currently running at 33 months - assuming electricity costs stay the same as they are now
 
I see a lot of people now doing full house solar/battery and it looks appealing, esp the part going full off grid... But the numbers.... tricky.

My electric is about $0.12/KW and I'm in Orange, Tx, the utility averages about $168/Month on a 1200' house but but I can put up about 15 KW of solar panels.

I figure total cost with my setup would be about 64KW of batts and 13 KW of inverter power (dual inverters sungold power clone LV6548), and 15KW solar panels would be about $45,00.00 assuming I do most of the work.

That would be 22 or so years of electric bills (with inflation, I guess we could say 19 years), and that is assuming nothing breaks on the batts/inverters/solar panels We all know electric companies are basically paying nothing to buy back power so everyone is trying to use batteries but this seems like a very risky deal.

How are you factoring in the cost, or if you have reliable utility power, don't even bother with solar at all?
at those prices i would still try to be as independent as possible,and have at least some emergency juice, but full offgrid , from a financial perspective wouldnt be cost effective.

here, with tax nonsense, and simply exploded prices (1,05 USD/kwh) , if becomes rapidly interesting, even more so to become less dependent on gov. imposed tax regs
 
No way. Too much trouble. Plus, my eyeglasses have saved my eyes more times than I can count.

I had contacts when I was younger.. didn't like all the maintenance.. having to take them out before bed, then put them back in..

Plus, now that I'm pushing 60 years old, I wear transition bifocals.
Ok then, get lasik. ?
 
FPL rates in Florida, yep 2 price increase this year and another in June I think.

Base Charge< 1,000 kWh> 1,000 kWhConservationCapacityEnvironmentalStorm Protection< 1,000 kWh Fuel Charge> 1,000 kWh Fuel ChargeTransition CreditCost ¢/kWh
1/1/20228.996.6837.6830.1340.2390.2990.2143.4874.487-0.19810.858
1/1/20239.487.0638.0550.122-0.1970.3120.3823.7454.745-0.15811.269
2/1/20239.487.0638.0550.1220.2120.3120.3823.7454.745-0.15811.678
Not usedNot used
Corrected mistake but buggered up the formatting.
 
Last edited:
I think there's more to this conversation than simple cost per kwh. For me, the reliability of my setup and the independence it offers is something i'm very proud of. When the blizzard/snowmageddon hit a couple years ago, and my friends were burning their wood chairs in the fireplace to keep their pipes from freezing, my wife and i were in a 72 degree house sipping hot cocoa that we warmed up in the microwave. What's that worth?
 
I think there's more to this conversation than simple cost per kwh. For me, the reliability of my setup and the independence it offers is something i'm very proud of. When the blizzard/snowmageddon hit a couple years ago, and my friends were burning their wood chairs in the fireplace to keep their pipes from freezing, my wife and i were in a 72 degree house sipping hot cocoa that we warmed up in the microwave. What's that worth?
Happy wife, happy life!
 
Do you guys not have any standing charges? Electricity cost in Spain varies but generally 12 - 15 cents / kWh but once the standing charges, tax, meter rental etc etc are added on it works out nearer to 60 cents / kWh. Our system 4.2kW panels, 5kw inverter and 5.12kWh battery provides more power than we used when we were on grid (we can easily get 300 kWh per month and a lot more if we could use it) and cost 6000€ (including back up generator). Payback is currently running at 33 months - assuming electricity costs stay the same as they are now
Yes my base charge here in the USA midwest is $14.00 Current KWH charge is $0.15
I've had 14 days of cloudy weather plus now it snowed and is expected to be cold so batteries would be a poor idea for me. I've experienced 2 power outages in 45 years of home ownership lasting more than 3-4 hours.
 
I'm feeling a little philosophical this morning, so may I ask the OP to join me?
What is your motivation to do solar, whether grid-tie, hybrid, or off-grid?

My thoughts on solar and the grid.
- The grid is not 100% reliable, no matter where you live.
- Grid tie with batteries will probably never in your lifetime pay off unless you have rates much in excess of your $0.12 USD/Kwh rate. Solar isn't an implement and forget system so you need to figure in maintenance costs.
- Your utility may limit the amount of energy you can sell back, and pay you at a less than $0.12 USD/KwH rate.
- There exist alt-whatever greenies who would like to turn off your electricity after you use some maximum amount per day (possible with a grid tie system, which leave you with no electricity when it's dark). Thus a grid tie only system give you no real power security.
- A hybrid system (grid tie with battery backup) is more expensive than $0.12 USD/kwH over a 20 year period. Solar isn't an implement and forget system so you need to figure in maintenance costs.
- An off-grid system may not be allowed by your municipality, your mortgage company , or your insurance company.
- An off-grid system does give you power security but is expensive and has maintenance costs like any other. Also, the reliability and availability of power is all on you. How many days autonomy do you need in your area?

Probably dozens more points to ponder.

Hope this helped.
 
- There exist alt-whatever greenies who would like to turn off your electricity after you use some maximum amount per day (possible with a grid tie system, which leave you with no electricity when it's dark). Thus a grid tie only system give you no real power security.
Plus, with our solar, we are all gonna become multi millionaires like Al Gore did with the carbon credit scam. :ROFLMAO:
 
I do not expect to come out ahead by having some solar. But then again I don't expect to come out ahead in many things I purchase. For me it is a hobby with some practical application. If I wanted to make money I would be far better off to save my money in a financial instrument that paid interest. Or invest in a company that sells solar equipment to eager folks thinking they were going to get rich from not having to pay a utility Co. Bill.
 
Don't put solar in to save money. And definitely don't put solar in DIY to save money. You can likely spend the time it will take you to DIY working and earning more money to cover grid than you would ever hope to save with solar.

Put solar in because you don't want to be reliant on the grid.
This is the way I'm looking at it. Based on the amount of absolutely criminal and illogical government behavior almost everywhere in the world...especially these past few years, I suspect that their goal for the population is different than what we would like it to be. We should try to protect ourselves from the inevitable long term grid down scenario.
 
I see a lot of people now doing full house solar/battery and it looks appealing, esp the part going full off grid... But the numbers.... tricky.

My electric is about $0.12/KW and I'm in Orange, Tx, the utility averages about $168/Month on a 1200' house but but I can put up about 15 KW of solar panels.

Might be $0.12 per Kwh for the juice, it's the extra fees that cost you. Using $0.12/Kwh and $168/month comes to 40Kwh per day.

Base here is $0.16/Kwh but after adding in the taxes per Kwh, transmission fees per Kwh, access fee per Kwh, it comes out to $0.185/Kwh last time I checked (wife handles paying all the bills). Also, it is a tiered rate here, in winter it is $0.16/Kwh but in summer it has a different rate and also a demand charge.

Utility has already notified us that there will be rate increases, I'm pretty certain we will be over $0.20/Kwh.
I figure total cost with my setup would be about 64KW of batts and 13 KW of inverter power (dual inverters sungold power clone LV6548), and 15KW solar panels would be about $45,00.00 assuming I do most of the work.

You need to shop better. First off, I'd move to something like an EG4 6500EX simply due to the VOC rating of the SCC. This saves wire costs considerably. In my case, it costs $2000 less for wire using a higher VOC rated SCC.

Batteries can be DIY, current built for 54Kwh with cabinet/BMS complete will run me about $13K, for something like EG4 is would be $20K.

A few thousand here and a few thousand there and pretty soon you're talking big money. :)

That would be 22 or so years of electric bills (with inflation, I guess we could say 19 years), and that is assuming nothing breaks on the batts/inverters/solar panels We all know electric companies are basically paying nothing to buy back power so everyone is trying to use batteries but this seems like a very risky deal.

How are you factoring in the cost, or if you have reliable utility power, don't even bother with solar at all?
I could see the trend a few years ago, loss of local coal powered plants (not just mothballed but torn down) the only nuclear reactor in this state closed, and a move by local utility to purchase power off the open market from anywhere (used to be the coal plants supplied all) all added up to higher utility costs down the road. We may have hit peak oil back around 2006 where the cheap extraction is gone and the cost to extract becomes higher per unit.

I wanted to purchase a large standby genny for power outages. We get ice storms on occasion with high winds. We had one winter where we lost complete power for 2.5 weeks. The large transmission lines went down, poles snapped like toothpicks and until those lines are back up you get to spend all your time fueling generators and sourcing fuel. Same thing happens in summer with tornadoes taking down large transmission lines.

I have 2 deep freezes here full of beef most of the year. If one figures the cost of the standby generator plus the cost of losing the contents of the freezer (yes, homeowners would cover the loss minus the deductible), it doesn't take long to get some of the solar investment back.

I'd rather spend the money on something like solar as they continue to devalue the dollar to net zero. At least I'll be able to sit in my underwear eating Cheetos and watching Netflix with the AC cranked when utility power rates go hyper. :cool:
 
Solar is NOT the way to go IF you assume everything (electrical reliability and cost) stays about the same and/or you dont have the money and or time to spend on it. If mining crypto it probably can/could save/make you money depending on the coin and profits. Solar (off grid system) and having a garden at this time seems to me one way to have a measure of independence and a little more peace of mind in these troubled times . Regarding DIY, you can learn alot doing it yourself , but working with electricity is dangerous and if unsure, i would pay someone to install it if you can afford it.
 
Do you guys not have any standing charges? Electricity cost in Spain varies but generally 12 - 15 cents / kWh but once the standing charges, tax, meter rental etc etc are added on it works out nearer to 60 cents / kWh. Our system 4.2kW panels, 5kw inverter and 5.12kWh battery provides more power than we used when we were on grid (we can easily get 300 kWh per month and a lot more if we could use it) and cost 6000€ (including back up generator). Payback is currently running at 33 months - assuming electricity costs stay the same as they are now
My utility company has both a delivery fee (paying for the infrastructure and based upon your usage) and a usage fee (based upon KwH used). It still averages out to USD $0.13/KwH. I am not charged a rental fee for my meter, and am not currently limited on how much electricity I could sell back, though some USA utility companies do have limits.
 
While most of this can be blamed on the inept and corrupt ANC for not putting in the needed investments in for new power stations and upgrades the final outcome is one that is starting to happen to several countries.

THE ROI on power plants is long and the Global community is demanding low carbon plants.
It's pretty hard to pitch building cheap new Coal fired plants in 2023.
With Germany and the rest of the EU buying up all the NG from America and other countries it leaves many other countries with a lot of bad short term options or very expensive green options.

 
Last edited:
The "breaking even" concept is a bit fraught to me.

Assuming the grid energy cost stays constant is a part of some calculations.

The value of energy delivered during a grid outage is higher to me than during normal grid operations.

I encourage each builder to self determine the appraised value of energy delivered in one circumstance or another.

Good luck to all!
 
Ok So I talked with some people that haves solar near my area and most of them that have batteries are using these gigantic 2v 1100AH lead acid batteries I think they are 7s setups, looked to be about 35KW ish I think. They swear by them no issues in 12 years.
 

diy solar

diy solar
Back
Top