Auto Inverter with 60v across ground will not run switching power supply properly

[harrymanimus]

I think it's highly unlikely that the ecoflow power supply is checking for hot/neutral potential to ground, so I would guess that the issue is something else that it does not like about the inverter's output, and not anything to do with bonded vs. unbonded.

It's not the ecoflow that is having the issue. The ecoflow charges fine from the inverter AC at 1200w. It's the external switching power supply that will not provide proper DC output from the inverter AC, but it does provide proper DC from a home wall outlet AC. My use case is at the top of the thread.

 

[harrymanimus]

Deleting double post

 

[hwy17]

Ok, the external switching power supply being used to charge the ecoflow then?

Does it have a ground prong? Whether it does or not, I highly doubt it is checking it. If it is not checking it, then there is no difference between 60v/60v and 120v, both are a 120v potential.

 

[harrymanimus]

The AC cable I connect to the PS, does have a ground wire, and that ground wire is connected to the PS ground connector.

I just know that it works off wall AC, not off the inverter AC.

 

[timselectric]

I wrote Giandel, and can't parse the answer fully. Basically asked if I can use the n-g bond plug with their product, or if there was some other way to get my PS to work.

"Thank you for purchasing our Giandel power inverter.
If you connect the inverter's LN to Ground terminal, this is dangerous, will cause electric shock, also can not pass HIPOT testing. The GFCI outlet or a neutral ground bonded plug can handle this issue.
Even if a GFCI outlet or a neutral ground bonded plug is installed, there is a risk of electric shock. Because this is externally connected to the ground and neutral of the inverter using the GFCI socket. Rather than the GFCI socket that builds in the inverter. Since our inverters are not GFCI receptacles it is difficult to do this. Unless you use an inverter with a GFCI outlet. "

So, looks like they say I need an inverter with a GFCI outlet? Thoughts? If I get this, would I still need a bond plug?

https://www.amazon.com/Inverter-Display-Controller-Emergency-Camping/dp/B09JK4PZJF/

Based on their response. I would not recommend adding a N/G bond. And a GFCI will not solve your problem, either.
I would look for an inverter that either provides, or allows a N/G bond.

 

[hwy17]

The AC cable I connect to the PS, does have a ground wire, and that ground wire is connected to the PS ground connector.

I just know that it works off wall AC, not off the inverter AC.

I would try disconnecting the ground from the SMPS and try again. If it acts the same then you know it's not bonding related.

 

[harrymanimus]

I would try disconnecting the ground from the SMPS and try again. If it acts the same then you know it's not bonding related.

Is doing that safe? Also of concern is that I don't want to damage my Ecoflow.

 

[harrymanimus]

Based on their response. I would not recommend adding a N/G bond. And a GFCI will not solve your problem, either.
I would look for an inverter that either provides, or allows a N/G bond.

I guess I'd have to contact several inverter companies and ask if they sell such a product, since I don't know that that is on any spec sheet. I actually asked Giandel as part of my question if they sold anything that would work for me. I'm unsure if they answered that, with all the GFCI text. I can ask again more directly.

 

[hwy17]

Is doing that safe? Also of concern is that I don't want to damage my Ecoflow.

Your inverter isn't grounded anyway, but I won't claim that any of my advice is safe.

 

[harrymanimus]

More research. This guy tested a inverter with GFCI, same one I linked, with his (Tesla?) car charger. He said a normal inverter would not charge is auto without an N-G bond plug. The GFCI outlet did in fact work to charge his car without a N-G bond plug.

Time is aournd 20 minutes in.

 

[timselectric]

More research. This guy tested a inverter with GFCI, same one I linked, with his (Tesla?) car charger. He said a normal inverter would not charge is auto without an N-G bond plug. The GFCI outlet did in fact work to charge his car without a N-G bond plug.

Time is aournd 20 minutes in.

You don't need a N/G bonding plug, if the inverter is internally N/G bonded. The one in the video is evidently Bonded internally.

 

[harrymanimus]

I’m going to return the Giandel and order the Leesky. I’ll report back my experience.

 

[harrymanimus]

For about 4 minutes, I thought it worked. I think I'm done trying this solution and now I'll try the DC boost device. Boost Device

Here are my findings.

For the first few minutes when I thought it was working... 1180 coming out of the inverter, 1135 going into the EcoFlow from the PS



Then it started doing the same thing as before, watts jumping all over the place.
Video: https://quickshare.samsungcloud.com/v93iUaOvVUXd

For comparison, this is a pic of the inverter connected directly to the EF, which has always worked fine.



I don't understand why the EF drops the voltage of the battery so much more than connecting the PS.

But I don't know why this solution does not work, and if the DC boost solution works, it should be good enough for what I want.

 

[harrymanimus]

The boost device does work, ~750w continuous charge. So this will be my solution. No more messing with inverters.

And it seems to not tax my auto battery nearly as much. Voltage dropped to 14.3. With inverter it was dropping to around 11.4 or so with 1200w ac draw.

This will allow me to operate all the 120v plugs in my home (conserving of course) in an emergency with no down time for charging, with full 3600w/7200w available as long as I have gas in my 2 autos.

One I have:

https://www.amazon.com/Daygreen-960W-Step-Converter-Non-Isolated/dp/B07KQSSWSR

Hmm, I wonder if I could connect 2 of these to one auto battery, and have the output in series, double the voltage. The EF Pro will handle up to 150v. Anyone knpw the answer to this?

Daygreen’s web site does have another 58v 20a booster that could have gotten me another 150w, but I’ll stick with what I have.

 

[webbbn]

The boost device does work, ~750w continuous charge. So this will be my solution. No more messing with inverters.

And it seems to not tax my auto battery nearly as much. Voltage dropped to 14.3. With inverter it was dropping to around 11.4 or so with 1200w ac draw.

This will allow me to operate all the 120v plugs in my home (conserving of course) in an emergency with no down time for charging, with full 3600w/7200w available as long as I have gas in my 2 autos.

One I have:

https://www.amazon.com/Daygreen-960W-Step-Converter-Non-Isolated/dp/B07KQSSWSR

Hmm, I wonder if I could connect 2 of these to one auto battery, and have the output in series, double the voltage. The EF Pro will handle up to 150v. Anyone knpw the answer to this?

Daygreen’s web site does have another 58v 20a booster that could have gotten me another 150w, but I’ll stick with what I have.

That's great!

The first thing I would check, to see if you can put them in series is if the negative terminal on the output is connected to the negative terminal of the input. If that's the case, it would short out the first converter. If the inputs are completely isolated from the outputs, it seems like it should work.

It would surprise me if both negative terminals are not connected together, though. Normally DC-DC converters have a common ground.

 

[harrymanimus]

The negative is shared on mine. So no-go on series.

I will point out, that the one that outputs 58v (and a 56v one) does not share the negative, according to the pic. So this info might help someone else.

12V/24V to 58V 20A 1160W DC DC Step Up Converter Voltage Regulator Charger

Wide input voltage from 11 to 35V Work for appliances from 0AMP to 20AMP automatically Charge 48V battery to 58V 100% full rated power 100% full stable output current 100% burn-in test High-efficiency up to 96% Waterproof sealed Cooling by free air convection Surface mountable Over-current...

daygreen.com