Batteries going completely dead overnight.

[squowse]

Any practical suggestions?? >)))

Use an inverter with lower standby or switch the inverter off when not using it. It adds up to a lot over 24 hours.

Do you consider that practical?

 

[squowse]

I just discovered when the inverter is in power save mode the amperage draw is only 2.08 amps. I wonder what drawbacks that has ?

24W is still quite a high standby figure. I wonder if its doing anything different or just a fake feature. Victron inverter goes down to 1-2W in eco mode.

 

[Partimewages]

This is the difference between tier 1 products and some of the cheaper ones. Check your specifications sheet and it will give you approximately the watt draw for each. Victron is one of the lowest. Just remember a less expensive inverter is less expensive for a reason. You will spend more in batteries, panels etc. I don't know that it's a break even you will need to decide for yourself.

 

[Tomthumb62]

This is the difference between tier 1 products and some of the cheaper ones. Check your specifications sheet and it will give you approximately the watt draw for each. Victron is one of the lowest. Just remember a less expensive inverter is less expensive for a reason. You will spend more in batteries, panels etc. I don't know that it's a break even you will need to decide for yourself.

@glennjr1 THIS!!

I wasted over $1000 on cheap batteries and a cheap inverter to finally learn this lesson.

I switched to a Victron inverter and a cheap-ish LiFePO4 battery and my problems were solved. I think had I had the Victron inverter in the first place, the cheap batteries would've lasted longer. But because my cheap inverter were sucking juice from the cheap AGM batteries (which do not like to be deeply discharged) 24/7, the batteries got damaged fast (that and not enough sun). Batteries should've lasted 3-5 years but I got 1 year out of each set of two batteries (did I say they were cheap?)

 

[Tomthumb62]

I just discovered when the inverter is in power save mode the amperage draw is only 2.08 amps. I wonder what drawbacks that has ?

You would have to look in the user manual to find out.

Some inverters have a type of "eco mode" (called by different names, perhaps 'power save' is one of them).

How the eco mode works on my Victron (may not be the same as yours): Most of the time, the inverter is asleep, meaning it's still awake enough to be powered, but the electrical outlet or load panel will be dead (no power). Mine is set to check every 60 seconds to see if a device wants power and it provides such power for 5 seconds. When the fridge wants to kick on (it has a mechanical thermostat, so it works in this case since electricity isn't required), it might have to wait up to 60s before the inverter provides that power. Once the power starts flowing, then the inverter will remain on for as long it is being asked to provide power. So if the fridge shuts off after reaching temperature, the inverter will quickly go back to asleep. Rinse and repeat.

The Victron has more eco mode settings, too, such as, the load required to wake up needs to be X number of watts. I have mine set to 10W, because we don't have anything on that circuit that's less than 10W. If the fridge is off (inverter asleep) and my wife plugs in her laptop AC charger (too cheap to buy the DC ones) which draws about 50W, she might have to wait 60s before it will start charging her laptop. Since it's above the 10W threshold, it will continue to charge her laptop even if the fridge never kicks on.

If that sounds complicated, it is and it isn't. It was a game changer for us.

We went to spending 50% of our usable daily battery power JUST to power the cheap inverter to now spending 13%. That's a combination of how much more efficient the Victron inverter is and switching from lead-acid to lithium batteries (lead acid, at least cheap lead acid like what I had can't be discharged below 50% or else damage happens.)

 

[glennjr1]

I tried the power saver mode, and the inverter has no A/C voltage out. I never thought it might be looking for load request. That might be an issue because the lights I have hooked up it a wireless switch and the module for them require voltage to make the lights light. I have something else I can try that has constant power requirements. I didn't see anything in the specs to set a wakeup wattage. I'll try some different items and see if I can find one that will wake it up, if it's at all possible. It's going to be some time before I can do anything about the inverter. I am experiencing a lesson well learned. It sounds like when I am able to do something it will be Victron.

 

[Tomthumb62]

I tried the power saver mode, and the inverter has no A/C voltage out. I never thought it might be looking for load request. That might be an issue because the lights I have hooked up it a wireless switch and the module for them require voltage to make the lights light. I have something else I can try that has constant power requirements. I didn't see anything in the specs to set a wakeup wattage. I'll try some different items and see if I can find one that will wake it up, if it's at all possible. It's going to be some time before I can do anything about the inverter. I am experiencing a lesson well learned. It sounds like when I am able to do something it will be Victron.

If you have something that requires continual never interrupted power, then any power saving or eco mode won’t work for you. So then something like a Victron is one of your best bets, because even their non eco mode is very low idle draw.

Or you could buy a second smaller inverter to power just the wireless lights. I’ll assume these are LED lights, then you could probably use the tiniest and cheapest non pure sine inverter you can find at Walmart or a gas station. Then you could use the eco mode setting on the other inverter.

 

[squowse]

@glennjr1 THIS!!

I wasted over $1000 on cheap batteries and a cheap inverter to finally learn this lesson.

I switched to a Victron inverter and a cheap-ish LiFePO4 battery and my problems were solved. I think had I had the Victron inverter in the first place, the cheap batteries would've lasted longer. But because my cheap inverter were sucking juice from the cheap AGM batteries (which do not like to be deeply discharged) 24/7, the batteries got damaged fast (that and not enough sun). Batteries should've lasted 3-5 years but I got 1 year out of each set of two batteries (did I say they were cheap?)

Me same

 

[squowse]

If you have something that requires continual never interrupted power, then any power saving or eco mode won’t work for you. So then something like a Victron is one of your best bets, because even their non eco mode is very low idle draw.

Or you could buy a second smaller inverter to power just the wireless lights. I’ll assume these are LED lights, then you could probably use the tiniest and cheapest non pure sine inverter you can find at Walmart or a gas station. Then you could use the eco mode setting on the other inverter.

I found that the pulse from the eco mode was enough to keep some of my standby electricals “alive”. Eg instant water heater, oven clock. They obviously have enough capacitance In their supply. I wonder how good it would be for them long term though so i try not to do it.

 

[Quattrohead]

As your concern is the fridge during a power outage, just put the inverter in UPS mode, simples ?

 

[glennjr1]

What is UPS mode??

 

[Tomthumb62]

I found that the pulse from the eco mode was enough to keep some of my standby electricals “alive”. Eg instant water heater, oven clock. They obviously have enough capacitance In their supply. I wonder how good it would be for them long term though so i try not to do it.

That’s a really good idea.

Depends on how frequent you have the pulse set (if your inverter allows that adjustment). I have mine set for every 60 seconds. Most capacitors will be drained by then. But I’ll try your method if I ever have something plugged in that needs constant (or nearly so) power.

Which gives me an idea: what if every household on the grid were to have a bank of super caps installed. One that would keep all the standby items powered and the initial startup surge of motors. The house would be rather “grid-tied” but no solar and the “batteries” would be the super caps. When the caps get low, a relay switches on to let the grid flow to charge them back up and power the house.

Think of how much power of the grid is wasted in “idle draw”.

 

[OTRwSolar]

@glennjr1, here's a thread where folks posted their realworld parasitic (no-load) current for various makes and models of inverters they're using. You may find this useful for comparison purposes.

Low no-load/parasitic current has always been a big priority for us. We used to use an Aims PWRI200012120S inverter, a 2000w pure sine wave (high-frequency) unit. Aims specs the no-load current at .9a (10.8w). We measured a very consistent .65a (7.8w). This unit had no power-saver or Eco mode, so 120vac was available at all times, for even the smallest loads. This is one of the lowest no-load current readings we've ever seen for a 2000w inverter.

Recently upgraded to a 12v Victron Multiplus II 3000va (2400w) inverter/charger (low-frequency unit) which still has a very respectable ~1.2a (14-15w) parasitic/no-load current. This reading was a taken with the Search/AES mode turned off. We prefer operating with the various power-saver or Eco modes off. Some devices work well with power-saver/Eco modes, some don't. Changing modes on some inverters can be a PIA.

 

[OTRwSolar]

Since you mentioned shore power that implies this is in an rv. RV converters for the most part do a poor job charging batteries and unless it was special order are not set up to charge lithium batteries . . . . . Progressive Dynamics makes a replacement charger for lithium batteries . . .

Lithium Approved means very little. The number of charge stages and the voltage used to support each charge stage determine how safely and how well a given converter or charger will charge a lifepo4 battery/pack.

Case in point: Progressive Dynamic makes a number of so-called "Lithium Approved", single-stage 14.6v converters for the RV world. They subject a 12v lifepo4 to 14.6v, 24/7/365. The worst possible charge profile for lifepo4---especially if you use FHU's a lot.

The typical 3-stage 13.2v/13.6v/14.4v RV converter (as long as it doesn't have an EQ mode >14.6v) will do a great job of charging a 12v lifepo4 battery/pack---an infinitely better charging profile vs. any Lithium Approved single-stage 14.6v converter.

The number of charge stages and the voltage of each charge stage are key. A Lithium Approved sticker only tells you the marketing department is alive and well, doing their best to sell you a converter/charger.

OP, sorry for the hi-jack.

 

[squowse]

That’s a really good idea.

Depends on how frequent you have the pulse set (if your inverter allows that adjustment). I have mine set for every 60 seconds. Most capacitors will be drained by then. But I’ll try your method if I ever have something plugged in that needs constant (or nearly so) power.

Which gives me an idea: what if every household on the grid were to have a bank of super caps installed. One that would keep all the standby items powered and the initial startup surge of motors. The house would be rather “grid-tied” but no solar and the “batteries” would be the super caps. When the caps get low, a relay switches on to let the grid flow to charge them back up and power the house.

Think of how much power of the grid is wasted in “idle draw”.

Yeah mine was 3 or 5 seconds i think

 

[glennjr1]

I checked the "power saver mode" idle current draw and it was 6.24 watts. Apparently, there is no way to change the amount of draw to "wake" the inverter up and it supposedly is looking for a draw of around 15 - 20 watts and it checks every 3 seconds or so. Who knows. I'm going to hook up something in that range and see what happens. My LED lights in the shop draw about 200 watts, but I have them wired to a wireless switch and it uses power to activate them, and I know that relay doesn't draw anywhere near what is required.