battery ballooned

[jvbutter01]

Came home today and found my single cell battery on the charger ballooned up pretty good. Now what?
1) is it dead?
2) should I hook a fan up and discharge it?

a little history
I bought these new while back, put on charger set to 3.65v. Been on charger for few days. amps 4.62 has yet to drop off. I was expecting the amps to drop off as it charged up. I need to read up on my

TUFFIOM DC Power Supply Variable 0-10A/0-30V​

battery charger. Seems its not a monitoring type. only constant supply.

thx
jim

 

[Bob B]

What voltage were you charging at?

 

[jvbutter01]

charger was set to 3.65. I just checked it and current voltage is 3.71

 

[Bob B]

If the cell voltage is still 3.71, it was probably a higher than that before you took it off charge since they will settle back pretty quickly.
I'd get it under some mild pressure and start discharging it.

What were you charging it with .... if using a power supply, the voltage needs to be adjusted with no load ... then connect to the battery. If you adjust the voltage with it connected to the battery it is going to go up as the battery reaches full charge.

 

[John Frum]

charger was set to 3.65. I just checked it and current voltage is 3.71

Did you verify the charge voltage and cell voltage with the same meter?
A charge sourse of 3.65 volts can't charge a cell to greater than 3.65 volts.

 

[ghostwriter66]

Came home today and found my single cell battery on the charger ballooned up pretty good. Now what?
1) is it dead?
2) should I hook a fan up and discharge it?

a little history
I bought these new while back, put on charger set to 3.65v. Been on charger for few days. amps 4.62 has yet to drop off. I was expecting the amps to drop off as it charged up. I need to read up on my

TUFFIOM DC Power Supply Variable 0-10A/0-30V​

battery charger. Seems its not a monitoring type. only constant supply.

thx
jim

You need to wakl away from that battery and dispose of it properly .. you are just waiting for an issue ... if its balloned up - its TOAST and its DANGEROUS ... I will tell you that either the battery had an internal failure (highly likely IF you are correct about the 3.71) ... OR ... more likely -- you had a runaway charger and charged it at 4.5+ volts ... either way - DISPOSE OF IT PROPERLY .... NOT WORTH THE RISK ...

 

[snoobler]

You need to wakl away from that battery and dispose of it properly .. you are just waiting for an issue ... if its balloned up - its TOAST and its DANGEROUS ... I will tell you that either the battery had an internal failure (highly likely IF you are correct about the 3.71) ... OR ... more likely -- you had a runaway charger and charged it at 4.5+ volts ... either way - DISPOSE OF IT PROPERLY .... NOT WORTH THE RISK ...

The above X 1000

 

[jvbutter01]

Bob.
thanks for the info. Yes it might have been higher, i pulled it off at 12ish when I got home, just checked voltage about 30 min ago. its 3pm, now.

No load, that could have been the problem, I connected them in parallel, attached the battery and adjusted the voltage. NOW, as said, no amperage drop off for almost a week, so i pulled the 8 parallel cells off charger, removed 1 cell and connected it back to battery charger. same 3.65v and 4.62a.

Smoothjoey,
yes I am using the same meter to check the cells voltage. Originally the voltage was low at 3.2 ( meter) and voltage set on charger 3.65.

ghostwritter,
yes i am in agreeance with your. even if this battery survives, i have read far to much about quality of the battery from over charging just a little bit. I think it is alot of overcharge.

the "charger" i assumed is not a battery charger, its a power supply. So i assume its not to smart. Tuffiom DC Power supply #TF-K3010D. I saw will on a vid using this and so i jumped on it. Maybe i missed a step. but I though he said to set the voltage and let it go. could also be a bit of inexperience. I didn't see will band his batteries together when it did his "build a battery DIY w/ top balancing" video. so i didn't also. just strapped them together with the buss bars.

Already contacted Michael about getting an replacement.

 

[Gazoo]

charger was set to 3.65. I just checked it and current voltage is 3.71

You might want to check the voltages on the others cells with a volt meter. If they are high drain them down.

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

I connected them in parallel, attached the battery and adjusted the voltage.

You connected the power supply to the battery and then set the voltage? Don't do that - set the voltage first, then connect. Always measure no load on the power supply! Also, 3.65V for days will kill the battery since it will overcharge. At low C rates, you can overcharge at low voltages; please read: https://files.ev-power.eu/inc/_auto88/_info/Doc/GWL-Power-Cell-Damage-OverCharge.pdf

 

[jvbutter01]

Gazoo,
No they never moved the needle when i pulled the single cell off... after sitting for 3 days, they are at 3.3v

Upnorthlander
thanks for the link. Ill read up.

 

[snoobler]

Bob.
thanks for the info. Yes it might have been higher, i pulled it off at 12ish when I got home, just checked voltage about 30 min ago. its 3pm, now.

No load, that could have been the problem, I connected them in parallel, attached the battery and adjusted the voltage. NOW, as said, no amperage drop off for almost a week, so i pulled the 8 parallel cells off charger, removed 1 cell and connected it back to battery charger. same 3.65v and 4.62a.

There are rules for charging. Two are:
1) Batteries are full when charged at 3.65V and 0.05C. For a 100Ah cell, it's full when the current drops to 5A. For 280Ah cell, it's full when the current drops to 5A. when it's 8 280Ah cells in series, it's full when it drops to 112A. Yes. 112A.
2) Don't float batteries above 3.4V/cell.

You violated both if the bolded statement is true.

If your actual cells were at 3.65 and 4.62A, the were OVER-charged at that point, and you basically floated them for a week at peak voltage.

When using these parallel charging methods with 10A lab power supplies, the moment the cells reach 3.65V, they are OVER charged, and the charging should be terminated.

I realize the above is in conflict with the otherwise great guide. IMHO, the guide should be revised.

EDIT: I also realize that I'm essentially repeating what @upnorthandpersonal referenced. All the more reason to revise the guide.

 

[ghostwriter66]

There are rules for charging.
1) Batteries are full when charged at 3.65V and 0.05C. For a 100Ah cell, it's full when the current drops to 5A. For 280Ah cell, it's full when the current drops to 5A. when it's 8 280Ah cells in series, it's full when it drops to 112A. Yes. 112A.
2) Don't float batteries above 3.4V/cell.

3. NEVER leave your batteries unattended overnight.
4. Get a good chair - a nice glass of your favourite adult liquid - and a good book - and watch those batteries for the first few hours to see if any of them start off crazy

 

[jvbutter01]

snoobler,
this what i dont understand... the PS showed 3.65 but only 4.62a. You say they are overcharged. However the batteries never tested at 3.65. only 3.2. Today they are only 3.3v. Using a Lab power supplie is pretty tough if they wont shut off at 3.65v and there is no way to monitor excpet volt meter periodically.

Bottom line, this 5a PS is not best tool to charge up the batteries. Better to get a battery charger designed to work for LifePo type batteries. Currently have this PD4655V on order for the trailer

Amazon.com

I should use this to top off the batteries for safer charge

 

[jvbutter01]

@ghostwriter66 are you saying never, or only when topping off the batteries, don't charge over night - unattended?

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

Today they are only 3.3v.

After resting a day? That's what they settle to rather quickly and is normal. They don't stay at a high voltage. If the power supply says it's putting out 3.65V, the batteries are at 3.65V. At the power supply, the load will cause the power supply voltage to drop - which is why you set the voltage before applying the load. If there is no load (i.e., full battery) the power goes back to what you set it.

 

[snoobler]

snoobler,
this what i dont understand... the PS showed 3.65 but only 4.62a. You say they are overcharged. However the batteries never tested at 3.65. only 3.2. Today they are only 3.3v. Using a Lab power supplie is pretty tough if they wont shut off at 3.65v and there is no way to monitor excpet volt meter periodically.

Bottom line, this 5a PS is not best tool to charge up the batteries. Better to get a battery charger designed to work for LifePo type batteries. Currently have this PD4655V on order for the trailer

Amazon.com

I should use this to top off the batteries for safer charge

If you're saying that the PS read 3.65V, and the cells showed 3.2-3.3 when separately measured while under charge, then you simply have a defective cell.

 

[Solarfun4jim]

I done my first ever parallel top balance last night(8 x 280ah cells)....took 8 hours...and i watched them for 8 hours nervously.....lol.
Using a similar bench top supply 0-30v/10a, on start up i noticed a bit of drift on the display. It moved up to 3.67 from 3.65. I stopped the charge, by disconnecting the +ve supply cable. By this time the unit was running at its operating temperature. I reset the display voltage to 3.65 once more and reconnected. The display remained pretty stable thereafter. It took 4 hours to go from 3.32 up to 3.45(measuring across the cells with DMM). 2 hours to go from3.45 to 3.6 and a further 2 hours to go from 3.6 to 3.64. I didnt make it to exactly 3.65, since by that time the amps were flickering between 0.12 - 0.19.
I expected the last stage to go much quicker, so when the amperage had reduced to such a low value, gut feeling told me to call it quits. My cells have been resting now for 20 hours, with 4 cells now at 3.59v and the other four at 3.58v
I have no previous experience, but would assume this would be an acceptable top balance.

What i find a bit awkward, is that what snoobler is saying is slightly at odds with what Will Prowse is recommenting in his video commentary on Top Balancing. I can understand snoobers assertions, so maybe a bit of clarification needed???

 

[Gazoo]

No they never moved the needle when i pulled the single cell off... after sitting for 3 days, they are at 3.3v

Ok, just so I understand You were charging 8 cells in parallel. Then you removed one cell. Was this because you thought the cells were not charging fast enough? Or was the cell you removed the bloated cell?

Were you measuring the voltage at the cell terminals while charging to see if there was any difference between them? Shortly after I started charging mine I checked to see if there was any voltage differential between the busbars and the terminals. I wanted to make sure I had good connections. I checked the voltage at the cell terminals every few hours. I also slept while the cells were charging.?

charger was set to 3.65. I just checked it and current voltage is 3.71

So how did the voltage on the power supply go up to 3.71? The voltage should not change change if you had set up the power supply properly per upnorthandpersonal's instructions. With the power supply set up properly the only change you should see is the current dropping. And you won't see any change for days because of the flat part of the curve. You will notice the cells very slowly creeping up. The exception to this is some people up the voltage to increase the current going into the cells so they will charge faster. This is ok but the cell voltage at the terminal needs to be checked frequently.

You probably noticed I used the Riden charging at 12 amps and it took 5 days for my cells to top balance. The reason I was comfortable sleeping and leaving the charger on is because it has over voltage protection and I set that at 3.7 volts. Anyways...for the majority of the time the voltage very slowly crept up.

You said all the cells are resting at 3.2 volts including the bloated cell after sitting on the charger for days?. Sorry if I am so dense. I am trying to figure out if the cell could have bloated due to user error, or if the cell is defective. I don't mean to insult you in any way. Just trying to understand what happened here so we will all know.

 

[Samsonite801]

You need to wakl away from that battery and dispose of it properly .. you are just waiting for an issue ... if its balloned up - its TOAST and its DANGEROUS ... I will tell you that either the battery had an internal failure (highly likely IF you are correct about the 3.71) ... OR ... more likely -- you had a runaway charger and charged it at 4.5+ volts ... either way - DISPOSE OF IT PROPERLY .... NOT WORTH THE RISK ...

Just put a clamp on it hehe it'll be ok... (just joking )

 

[Gazoo]

Just put a clamp on it hehe it'll be ok... (just joking )

I think that cell needs a hydraulic press.

 

[snoobler]

 

[Marinepower]

I have some EVE 280 cells on route and have been researching top balance methods for when they arrive.

"Marine How To's" (Rod Collins) seems to me to be the most intuitive way to top balance.

See: https://marinehowto.com/lifepo4-batteries-on-boats/. Warning - very long - you will have to scroll through a lot of info to get to the cell balance section.

In summary,: parallel charge to 3.4v until near zero amps, then repeat to 3.5v and then 3.6v. Use a biggish power-supply for large banks if possible to reduce time in the knees.

He also has good advice on how to calibrate your bench top power supply (echoing many comments on this thread). Note that his balance method is designed for Winstons or CALB, so for these EVE cells I think a slightly reduced voltage may be appropriate.

 

[Dzl]

I have some EVE 280 cells on route and have been researching top balance methods for when they arrive.

"Marine How To's" (Rod Collins) seems to me to be the most intuitive way to top balance.

See: https://marinehowto.com/lifepo4-batteries-on-boats/. Warning - very long - you will have to scroll through a lot of info to get to the cell balance section.

In summary,: parallel charge to 3.4v until near zero amps, then repeat to 3.5v and then 3.6v. Use a biggish power-supply for large banks if possible to reduce time in the knees.

He also has good advice on how to calibrate your bench top power supply (echoing many comments on this thread). Note that his balance method is designed for Winstons or CALB, so for these EVE cells I think a slightly reduced voltage may be appropriate.

I think the method described in that article is the best option. Reasonably simple, Reasonably Safe

The Marinehowto "Parellel Step Method" of top balancing

Parallel Step-Method Top Balance:

1- Wire the cells in parallel
2- Set the power supply to 3.400V and 80% or less of the rated amperage (80% to not burn it out)
3- Turn on power supply and charge cells to 3.400V
4- When current has dropped to 0.0A at 3.400V turn off the power supply & set it to 3.500V
5- Turn on power supply and charge cells to 3.500V
6- When current has dropped to 0.0A at 3.500V turn off the power supply & set to 3.600V
7- Allow current to drop to 0.0A (or very close) at 3.60V
8- Done, pack is balanced.

WARNING: Top each cell up, to a similar SoC level, prior to wiring them in parallel.

Nordkyn Design Recommends a Similar Method:

If possible at all, use a PSU that is explicitly suitable to charge a battery; in doubt, use great caution as a mishap can easily damage it. If smoke escapes from it, you will never get it back in.

1. With the output disconnected, set the voltage regulation limit at 3.40-3.45V and preset the current limit (if any) to a value that won’t overload the PSU. Refer to the manual as required. In doubt, always start with a low current limit and never exceed 80% of the rated output.
2. With all the cells wired in parallel, connect the PSU, bulk charge and absorb until no current flows any more. The voltage will stay around 3.3V for a very long time before starting to rise. Charging this way can take several days. This will near-fully charge the cells without stressing them unduly, but don’t hold them at that voltage indefinitely. Keep checking up on them at least a couple of times each day. Briefly disconnect the cells and recheck the voltage limit setting on the PSU: better safe than sorry. Avoid charging the cells individually, or in batches; the whole process would take just as long, but would also result in some fully charged cells lying around for several days.
3. Once the voltage has reached the PSU output regulation limit and there is no apparent charging current any more, disconnect the cells from the PSU and increase the output voltage regulation limit to 3.60V.
4. Then, while standing by only, reconnect the cells and allow the voltage to rise up to 3.60V and stabilise for a few minutes; this normally takes little time and additional current, provided the cells were fully absorbed at the lower voltage. Whether you target 3.60V, 3.65V or even 3.70V is of no consequence or interest if you are actively monitoring the process, because these values are often reached seconds apart only.
5. Disconnect the PSU from the cells again and wait. The cells should hold above 3.50V for at least 30 minutes. If not, bring them up again and hold them for a little longer until they do. At 3.60V, you may need to insist a little more than if using 3.65 or 3.70 volts; that’s all.

I recommend reading the articles in their entirety or at least the sections pertaining to balancing. They include more context and guidance than the bullet points above.

 

[Marinepower]

Thxs for posting.

That Nordkyn Design description of the process is a clearer and more user friendly than the post I linked.