Battery Cable 1/0 upgrade

[MattMan119]

I upgraded my main cable to 1/0 from the 600a bus to the inverter .. I had extra so I updated all the cables from batteries to bus to the 1/0 also.. but wanted to make sure 1/0 should be enough to support 3x48v batteries running to bus then to 6000xp inverter without worries?

Oh you can see my security frame that I built to hold them in the RV bay.

Just want some reassurance that 1/0 can handle max load and charge .. there seems to be a lots of conflicting details on DC amp wire max compacity.

Thanks,
MattMan

 

[740GLE]

Do you have a link to the cables you used?

Almost looks like car audio cabling.

 

[Suijkerbuijk]

Do you have a link to the cables you used?

Almost looks like car audio cabling.

Nothing wrong with those cable's
It can handle more amps and more heat.
Thanks to a lot of fine copere wires strings in side.
Only problem it can not handel uv licht
But for winter time is more flexible.

Only how its clamped that is not easy to do so.
So i will clamp it and than solder it personal.

Those will be 90 or 110 celcius cable
A standard battery cable do 60 celcius .

For the rest
Use the formule to see if you can handel the amps.

See attach file

 

[MattMan119]

This is the item: Xaugiry 1/0 Gauge Wire(20ft Each - Red/Black) Copper Clad Aluminum CCA 1pcs 250A ANL Fuse Holder-Car Amplifier Power & Ground Cable,Car Audio Speaker Stereo,Primary Automotive Wire,RV Trailer Wiring https://a.co/d/05rKPxfL

 

[MattMan119]

Nothing wrong with those cable's
It can handle more amps and more heat.
Thanks to a lot of fine copere wires strings in side.
Only problem it can not handel uv licht
But for winter time is more flexible.

Only how its clamped that is not easy to do so.
So i will clamp it and than solder it personal.

Those will be 90 or 110 celcius cable
A standard battery cable do 60 celcius .

For the rest
Use the formule to see if you can handel the amps.

See attach file

So that means (please check my work)

150amp x 4 meters (6 ft both ways) x .2 = 120
Adjusted for 48 volts = 120/4=30mm wire

This wire is 53.5mm (assuming it correct) hen it should be more then fine …

 

[Suijkerbuijk]

So that means (please check my work)

150amp x 4 meters (6 ft both ways) x .2 = 120
Adjusted for 48 volts = 120/4=30mm wire

This wire is 53.5mm (assuming it correct) hen it should be more then fine …

Calculation i use what we use for battery systeems

Abyc is this
And
Iso .
Are always over use for long time

The calculation i use just a standard cable for normal use is estimation not industrial
Long use i will go one thickness up.

ABYC Wire Size Calculator

boathowto.com

3 screen shot you see how we calculation.
Link use Google Translate .

Hoe bereken ik de dikte van accukabel(s)?

Accu kopen? Scherpe prijs, uit voorraad leverbaar en gratis bezorging in Nederland'

www.accudienst.nl

 

[Mattb4]

CCA stands for Copper clad aluminum wire. Your choice but the amp carrying capacity is reduced to aluminum wire size.


ETA: I do not use CCA for anything personally.

 

[MattMan119]

CCA stands for Copper clad aluminum wire. Your choice but the amp carrying capacity is reduced to aluminum wire size.


ETA: I do not use CCA for anything personally.

My understanding is this is marine type use, so we mark on the beach a lot and I wanted to extra protection.. but that said it appears I’m oversized even considering that point .. aluminum 132 amps, although I calculated for 150 I also only max at 113 with 6000xp maxed …

 

[MattMan119]

Calculation i use what we use .
Abyc is this

ABYC Wire Size Calculator

boathowto.com

Can you make that 12 ft, 6 ft both ways 12 total … I would like to see if it stays at 1 awg … would be comfortable margins

 

[MattMan119]

Thanks for the link that is awesome

 

[Mattb4]

My understanding is this is marine type use, so we mark on the beach a lot and I wanted to extra protection.. but that said it appears I’m oversized even considering that point .. aluminum 132 amps, although I calculated for 150 I also only max at 113 with 6000xp maxed …

Keep an eye for it getting hot during periods of heavy loading.

 

[740GLE]

You have what $4,000 invested in server rack batteries and went with $70 interconnection cabling?

For that calculation you just posted is that for pure copper or aluminum conductor?

Have you done any thermal imaging in the cabling? That’s the true test, you may have a bad crimp on a lug that you won’t know about until it’s too late.

 

[Suijkerbuijk]

You have what $4,000 invested in server rack batteries and went with $70 interconnection cabling?

For that calculation you just posted is that for pure copper or aluminum conductor?

Have you done any thermal imaging in the cabling? That’s the true test, you may have a bad crimp on a lug that you won’t know about until it’s too late.

Its copper .
I mis it that he had a cca cable.
Mis that because i use a translation systeem for my self .
So i.m not fast with writing.

Cca cable is not use for this high power use .
The same design cable for amps are use with a ofc design.

In deed marine use we need High temperature cable .
I use them my self that go up to 90 or 110 celcius.
A engine or power room can be hot even above 60 celcius.
Reason a standard cable can not handel it .
And use with combination of aluminium.
But really that are copper core with aluminium outside.

But marine grade have a lot of things and use it own calculation tools for it .

 

[Q-Dog]

My understanding is this is marine type use, so we mark on the beach a lot and I wanted to extra protection.. but that said it appears I’m oversized even considering that point .. aluminum 132 amps, although I calculated for 150 I also only max at 113 with 6000xp maxed …

Marine cable has tinned copper strands. You have copper clad aluminum which is just that, aluminum strands wrapped with thin copper coating. I would not use CCA in a marine environment for the same reason we don't use pure copper wiring in a marine environment ... copper easily corrodes in a salt water environment.

 

[42OhmsPA]

Here's some 1/0 marine from a vendor I've used multiple times.

1/0 AWG Tinned Marine Battery Cable - gregsmarinewiresupply.com

1/0 AWG Marine battery cable flexible Type III stranded Tin plated copper stranding UL 1426 Marine Grade Boat Cable Made in the USA Greg's marine wire

gregsmarinewiresupply.com

This is the item: Xaugiry 1/0 Gauge Wire(20ft Each - Red/Black) Copper Clad Aluminum CCA 1pcs 250A ANL Fuse Holder-Car Amplifier Power & Ground Cable,Car Audio Speaker Stereo,Primary Automotive Wire,RV Trailer Wiring https://a.co/d/05rKPxfL

Please don't use or trust the included fuse and holder.
I agree with what others have said about the CCA wire.

 

[740GLE]

This is the item: Xaugiry 1/0 Gauge Wire(20ft Each - Red/Black) Copper Clad Aluminum CCA 1pcs 250A ANL Fuse Holder-Car Amplifier Power & Ground Cable,Car Audio Speaker Stereo,Primary Automotive Wire,RV Trailer Wiring https://a.co/d/05rKPxfL

How thick are the walls of those lugs? You might have over specked the gauge of the wire, but if the lugs are just as cheap they will have tough time making a cold weld and carry enough current.

 

[robbob2112]

CCA is useless for high current DC battery wire. It is actually worse than undersized wire. That is because not only does it not carry as much current as the same sized copper wire, but it expands and contracts more. So now you have large wire you need to check and retorque the connections way more often than the same size copper.

For copper the same cross-sectional area will carry the same current. The higher ampacity ratings reflect the ability of the sheath to not melt or catch fire because it dissipates heat better.

Fine stranded verse course stranded - fine stranded will bend more and more freely without damage to it. This is a problem for aluminum wire, when it flexes it gets brittle over time. The new stuff isn't as bad as the old stuff but it still happens. In high vibration environments it can fray and break. Any wonder why it isn't used in aircraft wiring?

Another thing, when wire heats from high current the resistance increases. It increases faster for aluminum than copper. Aluminum also dissipates heat slower than copper.
 
Pretty much any automotive fuse or wire isn't suitable for battery or solar.

If you are smart you will rip out the CCA and order some windy nation welding wire, with the correct crimps on it unless you are willing to invest is quality Temco crimper or similar and quality UL listed lugs.

My 2 cents, take the advice or ignore it.

 

[42OhmsPA]

CCA is useless for high current DC battery wire. It is actually worse than undersized wire. That is because not only does it not carry as much current as the same sized copper wire, but it expands and contracts more. So now you have large wire you need to check and retorque the connections way more often than the same size copper.

For copper the same cross-sectional area will carry the same current. The higher ampacity ratings reflect the ability of the sheath to not melt or catch fire because it dissipates heat better.

Fine stranded verse course stranded - fine stranded will bend more and more freely without damage to it. This is a problem for aluminum wire, when it flexes it gets brittle over time. The new stuff isn't as bad as the old stuff but it still happens. In high vibration environments it can fray and break. Any wonder why it isn't used in aircraft wiring?

Another thing, when wire heats from high current the resistance increases. It increases faster for aluminum than copper. Aluminum also dissipates heat slower than copper.
 
Pretty much any automotive fuse or wire isn't suitable for battery or solar.

If you are smart you will rip out the CCA and order some windy nation welding wire, with the correct crimps on it unless you are willing to invest is quality Temco crimper or similar and quality UL listed lugs.

My 2 cents, take the advice or ignore it.

This deserves two thumbs up.

I really like my Temco crimper and Selterm lugs.

Here's one of my first crimps I made a couple years ago and recently decided to cut open when I upgraded wiring from Greg's Marine 1AWG to 2/0 from Windy Nation.
I can't remember if it was a lug from Greg's or Selterm .

 

[chrisski]

IMO (also with some math involved), 1/0 wire is too small for a 6000 watt inverter.

I'm not following @Suijkerbuijk 's math. I come up with 4/0 wire for an inverter that could pull 211 amps when low voltage cutoff is reached at max sustained output.

I use a chart to determine the maximum amperage of wire, once you have the calculations, no math.


The amperage calculation is some math. In the formula below, the low voltage cut off is used instead of inverter voltage to be conservative for safety. Also with the Safety factor, involves wire to be used for a long time at that amperage. Again, results in thicker wire.

Max Inverter rating / low voltage cutoff / Inverter Efficiency Percentage * 1.2 Safety FVactor
6000 / 40 / .85 * 1.2

211 amps. 4/0 wire with 75 C insulation.

=================

I would be good to follow that up with a DC loss chart to see power lost for that length of a wire but the 6' round trip installs I did, the voltage loss was insignificant.

=================

On my home system, the installer put in 4/0 wire for 8000 watt inverter on a 58 volt system.

 

[Hedges]

I use a chart to determine the maximum amperage of wire, once you have the calculations, no math.

View attachment 225952

That chart is for 3 conductors in conduit. But it does list aluminum.

The marine chart assumed copper.

Here's a chart for individual wires in free air.
Using 75C column, 1/0 aluminum good for 180A (typical temperature limit of lugs connecting things, even though wire insulation may be OK higher).

Ampacities of Single-Insulated Conductors in Free Air | UpCodes

Explore a searchable database of US construction and building code. Code regulations are consolidated by state and city for easier navigation.

up.codes

 

[Suijkerbuijk]

Think the problem is that a lot of calculation on the internet is a problem.

Wire Sizing Calculator

Wire Buying Guide

explorist.life

If i set ts info in this calculation it tell me a 2 awg cable copper...

Attach files we have a iso files of cable .
And that will tell me that Victron cable advice on my inverter is not correct . (Max 50mm2 connector)
It have to be 70mm2 .

I have set the cable calculate from Victron cable app with it on a 180a on 4 meter 48 volt.
Surprise minimum will be 35mm2 on 3% lost .

So tell me now who is wrong and who is correct.
So my own calculation is spot on with Victron.

Tool app Victron .

Victron Toolkit: A new app for Android and iPhone users - Victron Energy

Victron Toolkit enables you to: Calculate cable size and voltage drop. Easily select cable length, amperes and cable cross section to determine the voltage drop over the cable. Understand all LED codes from Victron Energy Multi and Quattro inverter/chargers. Scroll through the list of all...

www.victronenergy.com

 

[Quattrohead]

Current carrying capacity of the wire is all to do with the insulation and not so much to do with the wire. Remember nichrome wire can carry all the current it is rated for whilst glowing red for years on end.

 

[ksmithaz1]

Current carrying capacity of the wire is all to do with the insulation and not so much to do with the wire. Remember nichrome wire can carry all the current it is rated for whilst glowing red for years on end.

Umm, I believe you may want to re-think this, perhaps you mis-phrased it.

The fatter the wire the more current it will carry. Free to air (not in a raceway or conduit) wire is rated higher because it will dissipate the heat better, but the problem is if it gets hot, that heat is power loss, and results in a voltage drop. You are not going to run much over 120A to a single 6000XP (50v*120a = 6000W).Three LP4's are only rated to output 300A sustained, 100 each. 1/0 from each battery to a bus is probably overkill, about right if you are daisy chaining. 1/0 to the inverter is fine if the run is fairly short and free to air.

 

[rhino]

Just want some reassurance that 1/0 can handle max load and charge .. there seems to be a lots of conflicting details on DC amp wire max compacity.

The reason why you see this is because a lot of the calculators don't show you all the values they are using (or they don't even understand the formula to calculate it themselves) such as the ambient temperature or even the temp rating or they try to dumb it down by having you specify the wire type where they then deduce the temp rating.

What is the temp rating on that cable?

 

[Ampster]

Current carrying capacity of the wire is all to do with the insulation and not so much to do with the wire.

Yes, I learned that when I tried to repurpose battery jumper cables for a converted chipper mulcher. The insulation was not designed for the constant current under load plus the fact that the cables themselves were copper clad aluminum and I had miscalculated their current carrying capacity. Under heavy load the insulation melted but I caught it before it shorted. I am looking into an AC motor at possibly 240 volts to convert that chipper. I bought it used without the gas motor it came with.