Best Place To Buy Victron?

[Rocksnsalt]

I understand your points, but it’s supposed to be a free market.
It’s a form of price fixing otherwise.
Many of us may choose the gas station that cost less while others will only go to the more expensive Branded station.
It’s a choice, a somewhat free market… less the Big Oil market manipulations, price gouging, and conspiracies.
?

 

[Scat]

Try current connected.

Current Connected | Renewable Energy Solutions

Energy Independence through renewable energy solutions - At Current Connected, we are more than just a solar sales company!

www.currentconnected.com

When I purchase I will buy Victron components?
Why, because they will extend the warranty on the proroducts for free and the support you get from them here and on their site.
product: Victron Quattro Inverter Charger 48v Input 5000va Output 120v
Quote from the above:
"5-Year Manufacturer Warranty + Current Connected 5 Year Extended Warranty* (10 Years Total)!"
*10 year warranty only applies to products purchased through Currentconnected.com

Also I like that I can email them with a pre-sale question and get a answer, or ask a question on the product page, whch could also help others make a informed decision.

Thanks
Scat

​

 

[Hedges]

What is the difference? ?‍

Two manufacturers buy components, put on a board they designed (or licensed), write software. The devices provide similar functionality.

Employers colluding on wages (recent issue involving major Silicon Valley high tech companies)
Employees colluding on wages (unionization)
Consumers banding together to dictate price or service (not likely to happen.)

I do have to wonder about manufacturers being able to dictate prices retailers can charge. Is that legit? What if they sell a dominant product, dominant to the point where customers can't conduct business without it (Microsoft Windows, iPhone not quite there yet). What if Tyson foods dominates the beef market. Can they set retail prices?

I think the Walmarts of the world get around that by requesting a model number/features that no one else sells; then it can be a different price.

I recall some manufacturers (Nakamichi) only wholesaled their automobile head units to companies that had in-house installation. I was able to get a package price for entire system, carry-out.

I do understand full-service companies need the revenue to pay for operating costs. Warranty could be reimbursed by manufacturer, regardless of who performs the service (appears SMA has a policy like that.) How much service customers need will depend on quality, intuitiveness, automated and/or remote configuration.

A-la-carte service could be another option. And service contracts. Start-up I worked for paid a third party for Sun service. They raked in the dough while system was reliable, then as HDD starting failing they would replace with a reformatted failed HDD from another customer, which of course didn't last. Caveat Emptor; you're not likely to get what you pay for.

Of course, if you had to price services separately, not getting markup on material, likely you have fewer customers and manufacturer's product gets less customer satisfaction. Which is what you said.

When retailers offer me extended warranty I just laugh and say, "That's what the garbage can is for." Water heater at Home Depo, I asked, "How much?" ($160) I said, "I'll just take a second water heater." (It cost $125)

I understand your points, but it’s supposed to be a free market.

In a truly free market, the manufacturer would be free to enter such a contract with his retailers.

 

[KITROBASKIN]

Because other manufacturers of similar equipment may choose the ‘race to the bottom’ sales strategy, seems like Victron should be given the freedom to price their products to include requisite customer support, don’t you think?

 

[HighTechLab]

manufacturers being able to dictate prices retailers can charge

Victron is not dictating the prices retailers can charge. Let's avoid twisting the wording. I will refer you to the earlier post:

Victron has a "Minimum Advertised Price" that dealers cannot go below in advertising. But, dealers can sell below the MAP. Call a dealer, tell them what you need and ask for a quote.

Hedges, I think your missing the point. Victron simply dictates what the lowest price retailers can advertise at. Frankly, the companies can sell at cost (but not advertise at cost) if they please.

Victron is not the only one with MAP. Every single product in my store has a MAP in some way, shape, or form.

 

[Q-Dog]

I understand your points, but it’s supposed to be a free market.
It’s a form of price fixing otherwise.
Many of us may choose the gas station that cost less while others will only go to the more expensive Branded station.
It’s a choice, a somewhat free market… less the Big Oil market manipulations and conspiracies.
?

Minimum Advertised Price is not minimum selling price. Victron dealers can sell for lower prices, they just can't advertise lower prices.

I paid less than MAP for my Multiplus.

 

[Rocksnsalt]

What is the difference? ?‍

Two manufacturers buy components, put on a board they designed (or licensed), write software. The devices provide similar functionality.

Employers colluding on wages (recent issue involving major Silicon Valley high tech companies)
Employees colluding on wages (unionization)
Consumers banding together to dictate price or service (not likely to happen.)

I do have to wonder about manufacturers being able to dictate prices retailers can charge. Is that legit? What if they sell a dominant product, dominant to the point where customers can't conduct business without it (Microsoft Windows, iPhone not quite there yet). What if Tyson foods dominates the beef market. Can they set retail prices?

I think the Walmarts of the world get around that by requesting a model number/features that no one else sells; then it can be a different price.

I recall some manufacturers (Nakamichi) only wholesaled their automobile head units to companies that had in-house installation. I was able to get a package price for entire system, carry-out.

I do understand full-service companies need the revenue to pay for operating costs. Warranty could be reimbursed by manufacturer, regardless of who performs the service (appears SMA has a policy like that.) How much service customers need will depend on quality, intuitiveness, automated and/or remote configuration.

A-la-carte service could be another option. And service contracts. Start-up I worked for paid a third party for Sun service. They raked in the dough while system was reliable, then as HDD starting failing they would replace with a reformatted failed HDD from another customer, which of course didn't last. Caveat Emptor; you're not likely to get what you pay for.

Of course, if you had to price services separately, not getting markup on material, likely you have fewer customers and manufacturer's product gets less customer satisfaction. Which is what you said.

When retailers offer me extended warranty I just laugh and say, "That's what the garbage can is for." Water heater at Home Depo, I asked, "How much?" ($160) I said, "I'll just take a second water heater." (It cost $125)



In a truly free market, the manufacturer would be free to enter such a contract with his retailers.

What water heater is $125 at home depot?

 

[fafrd]

I think this is actually the case.
Around the end of 2022 I was seeing Victron components at a particular vendor at prices way lower than anywhere else. Like $200 less for a Multiplus 3000. I don’t think it was a holiday sale.
I ignorantly shared the info a couple places and in January ‘23 the vendor was at the same price as everyone else.
If that was because of pressure from Victron, That’s not a free market. A retailer should be able to sell their product that they bought at whatever price they choose.

Ahhh, but did they in fact buy it?

Competition is good for consumers. And if a seller sells too cheap and can no longer keep the doors open, well it is what it is, so be it. The consumers find another source for the products they need.

For different products, one brand inverter versus another brand inverter, absolutely.

But it’s Victron’s product to price wherever they want. If they have a network of resellers who agree contractually to not undercut their MAP pricing terms, how is that hurting competition for consumers?

If I’m Victron, I’d be worried about bargain-basement resellers that cut pricing to a hair over their wholesale pricing and then never lift a finger for a customer in trouble.

Victron wants to compete against Schneider and Solark, not against themselves…

 

[fafrd]

I understand your points, but it’s supposed to be a free market.
It’s a form of price fixing otherwise.
Many of us may choose the gas station that cost less while others will only go to the more expensive Branded station.
It’s a choice, a somewhat free market… less the Big Oil market manipulations, price gouging, and conspiracies.
?

So you think if all Arco Gas stations sell gas for the exact same price that is price fixing and anti-competition?

You are always free to buy no-name gas just as you are free to buy no-name inverters, but explain to me why Arco getting all gas stations in a particular city or region to agree to the same pricing on the gas they sell harms competition?

Had pretty much never, ever involves after-sales support, so it is not the best example.

How about every Apple Store selling iPhones for exactly the same price? You’re still free to buy a No-Name phone or a Samsung, aren’t you?

 

[Hedges]

What water heater is $125 at home depot?

The 30 or 40 gallon electric one I bought, a few years ago. Others were $500 ~ $600. Maybe it was a close out. I probably should have bought at least two.

I later picked up a used but recent model gas heater with circulator pump attached at ReStore for $90. Was thinking solar pre-heat but ended up installing it a few years later to replace a gas one that failed. Had to shoe-horn it into place.

 

[Rocksnsalt]

The 30 or 40 gallon electric one I bought, a few years ago. Others were $500 ~ $600. Maybe it was a close out. I probably should have bought at least two.

I later picked up a used but recent model gas heater with circulator pump attached at ReStore for $90. Was thinking solar pre-heat but ended up installing it a few years later to replace a gas one that failed. Had to shoe-horn it into place.

Yeah something was up, but even at clearance that’s a ridiculously low price. Good score!
Hard to find a 30 or 40gallon water heater under $500 these days.

 

[SoakedUp]

So you think if all Arco Gas stations sell gas for the exact same price that is price fixing and anti-competition?

You are always free to buy no-name gas just as you are free to buy no-name inverters, but explain to me why Arco getting all gas stations in a particular city or region to agree to the same pricing on the gas they sell harms competition?

Had pretty much never, ever involves after-sales support, so it is not the best example.

How about every Apple Store selling iPhones for exactly the same price? You’re still free to buy a No-Name phone or a Samsung, aren’t you?

Not quite the same. It would be more like Apple telling Verizon and AT&T stores they can’t advertise the iPhone for any price other than what they tell them. As we know that’s not what happens. Verizon may not have any deals going on but AT&T is advertising the newest iPhone for $800 off if you start up a new family line of 4. Both companies offer support for the Apple device they sell but people may be swayed to buy from ATT due to the sweet deal they are offering.

While I get what victron is trying to do and I don’t really have a problem with it I would prefer they allow their retailers to advertise at any price so I can better find the best deal. I’ll then determine if the retailer is the type of business I want to spend my money at.

 

[HighTechLab]

While I get what victron is trying to do and I don’t really have a problem with it I would prefer they allow their retailers to advertise at any price so I can better find the best deal. I’ll then determine if the retailer is the type of business I want to spend my money at.

Have you considered that if all dealers have the same price, you are most likely to get the same deal from all of them? Now you can filter through by reputation and quality of service...

In your example, I did what you mentioned... ATT was cheaper, however, ATT has garbage cellular service in my area...I got a phone from them but then got nailed with fees when I was forced to cancel because I didn't have coverage at my home, and switched to Verizon who does. On the money side of things it would have been cheaper just to go with Verizon from the beginning, but to a consumer it can be extremely hard to consider the total cost of ownership when only presented with an enticing upfront cost to get "in the door".

 

[SoakedUp]

Have you considered that if all dealers have the same price, you are most likely to get the same deal from all of them? Now you can filter through by reputation and quality of service...

In your example, I did what you mentioned... ATT was cheaper, however, ATT has garbage cellular service in my area...I got a phone from them but then got nailed with fees when I was forced to cancel because I didn't have coverage at my home, and switched to Verizon who does. On the money side of things it would have been cheaper just to go with Verizon from the beginning, but to a consumer it can be extremely hard to consider the total cost of ownership when only presented with an enticing upfront cost to get "in the door".

Yeah that makes sense. That customer should have done their due diligence in researching cell coverage at their home before signing a contract with ATT. Price wasn’t the only factor in that scenario. Either way, my example was directed more towards the Hardware (Apple iPhone) which will be the same quality of product regardless of your provider. Unless you are making the connection of cell coverage to customer service and support post purchase? With victron it’s a bit different. I know they have a great product regardless of who is selling it, so my main goal is to get it as cheap as I can. Any post purchase support from the retailer is cherries and whip cream on top. Don’t get me wrong, it is definitely a factor, but a secondary one to price of the product. With cell service, coverage is just as important if not more than price of the phone.

 

[Hedges]

I think ATT's policy is 14 days for return, $55 restocking fee for open packages. (which start to hurt for family of four phones. Guess you'd better test one before opening the rest.)

Because cell coverage varies by location, what they ought to do to treat customer right (and what I think some companies I've used do or previously did) was allow return without fee.

It is pretty absurd to charge customer a fee if the service doesn't work. There ought to be a map showing where coverage is adequate, or a system to check addresses you enter. And then it is the company's responsibility that it works. Sure, it means the cost of having a phone downgraded to "refurbished", but it behooves them to test coverage and either make it good enough or document when it isn't.

Wireless Return & Exchange Policy | AT&T

AT&T offers flexible and easy options to return or exchange your new cell phone or device. Learn how to get started now.

www.att.com

I'm using T-Mobile (through Ting), and have about zero coverage at work in the middle of Sunnyvale. Enabling WiFi calling gets around that except when the iPhone fumbles with trying to use weak cellular signal. Maybe updates or company security system bumped the WiFi settings those times.

I've always bought a phone for cash and got service separately. At one time, through the cellular store, now often through eBay. But of course "low easy monthly payment" is how they sell a $1000 retail phone (that cost maybe $100 to make) to most consumers. And get maybe $2000 from the consumer for it.

Similarly, when I ordered Sonic fiber, I didn't rent Wyze mesh router from them for $10/month (for two). I bought box of two at Home Depot for $180 (now offered for $160.) Other customers can pay $600 over 5 years. But I did fall for the land line just $10/month more. What they didn't say was additional $10 taxes on top of that. So they got the money from me anyway.

(Sonic fiber not available in all areas.)