Best way to make what i have work. Need ideas.

[73powerstroke]

I have 6 santan solar 240w panels 37.2v ocv 7.89amps
6 harbor freight 100w monocrystalline panels 24v ocv 6.2 amps
A morningstar 25amp mppt-25m
A epever 40amp tracer model from santan.
25 feet of pv wire. A bag of connectors. 6ga thhn wires for both cc to battery @ 5 feet already hooked up. Fans connected to load of both cc to keep cool. 12ga wire at about 25 feet to the harbor freight panels since the don't have mc4 connections.
In a temp position I've seen up to 35 amps from the 6 hf panels in the epever in a 3s1p configuration coming in about 60v . That's probably too much for cc.
I've tried 2 and 3 240w panels in series on morningstar ps-mppt-25m with its higher 120v input. This greatly exceeds the 350w max input.
So im not sure what I can really do here.
Everything is going to be ground mounted for now.
I have 3 inverters all crap. The hf Jupiter 2000w modified sine seems best.
I have 2 group 24 walmart deep cycle batteries and a group 31 that I have made a bank from. Currently I took them apart and am just using the group 31 . The others are fully charged and set aside. I was running them all low with the air conditioning. So I fully charged and equalized them till the green eye came back and set them aside. I had only 4 panels then. I've not included them since I added the 8 others

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Without looking at specs, and only using math, you're limited to (25A + 40A) * 14.4V = 936W

You'll never get anything more than that with those charge controllers.

You have 2,040W of solar.

Recommend 2S3P 240W panels on the EPEVER
Recommend 3S2P 100W panels on the Morningstar

Both of the above configurations are over-paneled, but they should provide max rated MPPT power for as long as the larger array can generate that power.

Another concern is your batteries. I'm estimating your total battery capacity to be no more than 200Ah. In that case, you don't want to charge your batteries at more than 20-30A... but you have 65A available. Additionally, they sound like starter batteries, so your cycle life will be extremely poor.

The sensible solution would be to disable the EPEVER until the batteries are fully charged and then enable it to power loads after the battery is fully charged, OR you can keep the charge current under 30A by charging and consuming ~500W of loads.

 

[73powerstroke]

Without looking at specs, and only using math, you're limited to (25A + 40A) * 14.4V = 936W

You'll never get anything more than that with those charge controllers.

You have 2,040W of solar.

Recommend 2S3P 240W panels on the EPEVER
Recommend 3S2P 100W panels on the Morningstar

Both of the above configurations are over-paneled, but they should provide max rated MPPT power for as long as the larger array can generate that power.

Another concern is your batteries. I'm estimating your total battery capacity to be no more than 200Ah. In that case, you don't want to charge your batteries at more than 20-30A... but you have 65A available. Additionally, they sound like starter batteries, so your cycle life will be extremely poor.

The sensible solution would be to disable the EPEVER until the batteries are fully charged and then enable it to power loads after the battery is fully charged, OR you can keep the charge current under 30A by charging and consuming ~500W of loads.

So over paneling won't hurt?
The batteries are all deep cycle. I have 2 more group 65 starting batteries hooked to a 24v ups I could use but I've played with starting batteries and the suck for this.
My ac unit draws 5.5amps 535w or something. It's a 5000btu I would like to run it all day
I had the 100w panels 3 to a string. And they were pushing the epever hard at 35 amps. I had the 240w 2 in series and was getting 16amps through morningstar. The ac was running and the batteries were charging. So I know that works. But I wasn't sure if it was safe.

 

[73powerstroke]

Would it be safe to run 3 series 240w on morningstar? Voltage max should not be more than 111v

 

[73powerstroke]

Terrible weather for solar. Today was mostly cloudy and monsoon. I did some testing and fiddling.
I hooked 3 240w panels in series to the morningstar 25amp mppt-25m and 6 100w panels in 3S2P to the epever 40amp tracer 4210an. I saw a consistent 15amps from the big panels under load. But the 100w panels were as high as 40amps. But not great under low light.
I'm surprised with 600w it can max out easily but the big panels at 720w won't do better than 16amps. Seems poor.
I need to parallel 3 more big panels in there and see what happens. Or switch around charge controller and sting sizes.

 

[73powerstroke]

@sunshine_eggo what charge controller(s) would you recommend.
I kinda want to return the hf panels. I'm on the fence about it. But $600 plus in panels w 90 days warranty and I could get alot more santan panels if I really wanted to.

 

[chrisski]

When you say green eye, are these Flooded Lead Acid with caps that come off to add water, or is it AGM with no caps?

 

[73powerstroke]

The morning star refuses to put out over 16amps. 2 or 3 panels it's 16amps . One panel I see max rated out at 8plus amps in. Am I doing something wrong here?

 

[sunshine_eggo]

@sunshine_eggo what charge controller(s) would you recommend.
I kinda want to return the hf panels. I'm on the fence about it. But $600 plus in panels w 90 days warranty and I could get alot more santan panels if I really wanted to.

It depends. Do you want to use your entire array? If so you need 2040/14.4 = 142A of charge controllers. That means another 2 EPEVER 40A on top of what you already have.

I would be inclined to return the HF stuff just on principle.

The morning star refuses to put out over 16amps. 2 or 3 panels it's 16amps . One panel I see max rated out at 8plus amps in. Am I doing something wrong here?

If your battery is in absorption phase of charging, it can't accept any more. Recommend you hang 2S2P 100W panels on it to insure you have > 360W of solar AND you hit the battery with a load while the PV is at peak (high noon, panels perfectly perpendicular to the sun).

Concerning your numbers.
200W/14.4V = 13A
300W/14.4V = 21A

Note that panels that have been in the sun and are at operating temp tend to only produce about 75% of rated, your 16A sounds pretty good with only 300W on it.

 

[73powerstroke]

It depends. Do you want to use your entire array? If so you need 2040/14.4 = 142A of charge controllers. That means another 2 EPEVER 40A on top of what you already have.

I would be inclined to return the HF stuff just on principle.




If your battery is in absorption phase of charging, it can't accept any more. Recommend you hang 2S2P 100W panels on it to insure you have > 360W of solar AND you hit the battery with a load while the PV is at peak (high noon, panels perfectly perpendicular to the sun).

Concerning your numbers.
200W/14.4V = 13A
300W/14.4V = 21A

Note that panels that have been in the sun and are at operating temp tend to only produce about 75% of rated, your 16A sounds pretty good with only 300W on it.

I went to santan again and purchased a few things.
A 40amp epever, 2 more panels, shunt meter kit ($15),branch connectors, and head back up the hill.
At noon or 1pm I was testing today and that was 2 series and 3 series 240w panels into the morning star with ac on inverter was drawing 50 amps according to my cheap btmeter clamp meter. There was 16 amps on the santan morningstar array and 35amps on the 6 hf array into epever. The battery voltage was holding steady till clouds. It was actually staying topped and ac full bore. I'm almost there!
So that prompted my trip for more stuff today. Just got home. I didn't even want more panels but figured I might as well buy them since I'm making the trip. So im up to 8 santan 240w panels lol ? ? ?
I got the 4 branch connectors since same price as the 3 . But was thinking 2s3p on the 240w to stay under that 100v limit. Should be around 24 amps on 10ga pv wire.
Let me know what you think. Im going to see how they do on their own cc and I'll use the morningstar for some else

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Sounds good.

Just beware of throwing too many amps at the battery.

 

[73powerstroke]

Sounds good.

Just beware of throwing too many amps at the battery.

I will hook up the other 2 deep cycle batteries. I wanted to keep it simple till I could actually keep up with the inverter.

 

[73powerstroke]

These feel super cheap..geez what have I done.
Meter is questionable too. Probably should have just ordered another rc power meter instead.

 

[73powerstroke]

Sounds good.

Just beware of throwing too many amps at the battery.

If the inverter is under load will it matter?
I'm drawing up to 80 amps on our bedroom ac unit at peaks. But it's 735w and 6.5 amps. I'm doing fine till clouds come by. I'm running 2 epever 40amp tracer 4210an units and 2S2P 240w on one. And 3S2P 100W panels on the other. I need more branches and pv wire to use the other 240w. But I think 2S2P 240w on both .

 

[chrisski]

If the inverter is under load will it matter?
I'm drawing up to 80 amps on our bedroom ac unit at peaks. But it's 735w and 6.5 amps. I'm doing fine till clouds come by. I'm running 2 epever 40amp tracer 4210an units and 2S2P 240w on one. And 3S2P 100W panels on the other. I need more branches and pv wire to use the other 240w. But I think 2S2P 240w on both .

IME yes it does matter, but when the load turns off. The MPPT will still provide the extra amperage for a few seconds and then stabilize to nothing from the MPPT. A battery can survive some overamping, but with my 60 amp max charge, there’s a difference between 65 amps to the battery and 120 amps to the battery. How much difference, who knows.

At that point, I got rid of the lead acid batteries and went to lithium and have a much higher charge.

 

[73powerstroke]

IME yes it does matter, but when the load turns off. The MPPT will still provide the extra amperage for a few seconds and then stabilize to nothing from the MPPT. A battery can survive some overamping, but with my 60 amp max charge, there’s a difference between 65 amps to the battery and 120 amps to the battery. How much difference, who knows.

At that point, I got rid of the lead acid batteries and went to lithium and have a much higher charge.

I've not went to lithium because of the up front cost and the bms stuff. I dont like that part at all. Maybe I can just use a super capacitor and do it that way. I'm not concerned with storage for later. I want to use the solar during the day when it's hot

 

[chrisski]

I don’t know enough about caps to say whether that will work.

I’m from Arizona and I understand the 115 f June days suck.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

If the inverter is under load will it matter?
I'm drawing up to 80 amps on our bedroom ac unit at peaks. But it's 735w and 6.5 amps. I'm doing fine till clouds come by. I'm running 2 epever 40amp tracer 4210an units and 2S2P 240w on one. And 3S2P 100W panels on the other. I need more branches and pv wire to use the other 240w. But I think 2S2P 240w on both .

It depends. If the battery is nearly fully charged in absorption mode or in float mode, it won't take much, and you can run the loads via solar willy-nilly.

For the purposes of experimentation, and to keep from toasting your battery, I recommend you reduce bulk/boost/absorption to 13.8V. Even cheap batteries can take absurdly high currents up to 13.8V. Set your absorption period as long as the controller will let you up to 6 hours.

I've not went to lithium because of the up front cost and the bms stuff. I dont like that part at all. Maybe I can just use a super capacitor and do it that way. I'm not concerned with storage for later. I want to use the solar during the day when it's hot

Truth!

I don’t know enough about caps to say whether that will work.

I’m from Arizona and I understand the 115 f June days suck.

Truth!

It feels like the monsoons are early. I come from a long line of heavy perspire-ers, and I've been drenched the last few days.

 

[73powerstroke]

It depends. If the battery is nearly fully charged in absorption mode or in float mode, it won't take much, and you can run the loads via solar willy-nilly.

For the purposes of experimentation, and to keep from toasting your battery, I recommend you reduce bulk/boost/absorption to 13.8V. Even cheap batteries can take absurdly high currents up to 13.8V. Set your absorption period as long as the controller will let you up to 6 hours.



Truth!



Truth!

It feels like the monsoons are early. I come from a long line of heavy perspire-ers, and I've been drenched the last few days.

I'm not sure if the epever 40amp tracer 4210an will let me do that?

 

[73powerstroke]

I don’t know enough about caps to say whether that will work.

I’m from Arizona and I understand the 115 f June days suck.

We were 95 and humid today in prescott up north. But Phoenix geez. Bad stuff. I was sweating for a hour after I loaded my panels at Santan solar both times. Yesterday it was 106 in gilbert. The previous time was around 110. When the salt burns your eyes it's a good sweat lol ?