Best way to run AC power 500 ft from array to cabin

[offgriddave]

Didn't we establish this is a 15kw system?...yer about 14.5kw short of a load.

15kw system is unrealistic unless they wanted to do 450V DC and they already said that was 'off topic' so I didn't address it.

The only other alternative without going DC that I can think of... are those 240v MicroGrid inverters [on the back of the solar panels]. Which require a split phase reference variable.

So inverter at the cabin as a 240 split phase reference. Then a huge AC wire 500ft. To an array of 240v microgrid inverters [solar panels] at the top.

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

I think it is an interesting topic as well but the OP cannot lose sight of where he is and the focus of the community. People are seeing flaws in the approach and voicing them and giving alternatives. From that part of the conversation you may learn as well but he wants to shut that down because he has blinders on.

If someone started a thread called "best way to take strychnine" I would assume most people would recommend not doing it and fail to keep the thread "on topic"

Im not going to reply any further as it is pointless but the counter point is always just as valuable as the pro point.

Well I hate needles but if forced to choose I think I'd snort it through a rolled up $100 bill. But I'd only do it once.

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

OP said overhead power was out of the question due to trees falling. Last year I spent $3000 taking out trees that interfered with my system. It's called being proactive and looking ahead. I loved those trees too.

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

OP said overhead power was out of the question due to trees falling. Last year I spent $3000 taking out trees that interfered with my system. It's called being proactive and looking ahead. I loved those trees too.

Btw, that also qualified for a 26% tax credit.

 

[Warpspeed]

A 600 volt buried cable is a very serious thing, ESPECIALLY in constantly wet ground. Deep snow and mud were mentioned earlier.
If your 600 volt buried cable craps out, how do you locate and repair the problem if it has all been buried under mud and snow ?
This would be a lot more practical and reliable in a dry sand, desert environment.

In this type of situation of wet snow/mud/inaccessibility, overhead bare steel fencing wire run at a very high voltage is easier to erect, and finding and fixing any problems with it later on, very straightforward. Falling trees and wildfires may be an issue, but any damage will be obvious and very quickly and easily repaired. The wire, poles, and insulators will be dirt cheap. All the money will go into transformers, and those will never give any trouble.

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

A 600 volt buried cable is a very serious thing, ESPECIALLY in constantly wet ground. Deep snow and mud were mentioned earlier.
If your 600 volt buried cable craps out, how do you locate and repair the problem if it has all been buried under mud and snow ?
This would be a lot more practical and reliable in a dry sand, desert environment.

In this type of situation of wet snow/mud/inaccessibility, overhead bare steel fencing wire run at a very high voltage is easier to erect, and finding and fixing any problems with it later on, very straightforward. Falling trees and wildfires may be an issue, but any damage will be obvious and very quickly and easily repaired. The wire, poles, and insulators will be dirt cheap. All the money will go into transformers, and those will never give any trouble.

Best solution yet! Move to the Arizona desert, it also has a insolation rating of 6.5!!! :D

 

[AlaskanNoob]

Two inverters. One at the panels and one at the house. The one at the panels would be the batteryless Growatt ES either 3500 or 5000 ES.

10 or 8 awg wire 500ft to the cabin. At 220v or 240v. Only 300-600 watts.

At the cabin, a battery charger. Set at 300 or 600 watts.

That would charge the battery to the second inverter. The second inverter would power your house.

...And you are only going to get 2000-3000 watt hours a day. Which is why everyone is pointing out to change your power usage.
If you want to upgrade this, you'll have to put some batteries up at the panels.




Heat pump, water heater, washer, dryer (???? that's a wtf), oven?
You will have to forget about all of that in DIY world. Every single one. Not going to happen. Even if your panels were right next to the cabin. Unless you have an unlimited budget and an EE degree. Even then it would be a waste.

You'll just have to figure out how to get propane up the hill on snowmobiles or what have you.
Nobody in Alaska takes showers anyway

Would love to hear your thoughts there especially on why would you expect a 22KW solar array to only generation 2-3KW a day.

I'm trying to learn about the options before I hire somebody.

My budget, our property, our needs are not yours so we'll make the decision on what is a waste or not.

 

[AlaskanNoob]

I think it is an interesting topic as well but the OP cannot lose sight of where he is and the focus of the community. People are seeing flaws in the approach and voicing them and giving alternatives. From that part of the conversation you may learn as well but he wants to shut that down because he has blinders on.

If someone started a thread called "best way to take strychnine" I would assume most people would recommend not doing it and fail to keep the thread "on topic"

Im not going to reply any further as it is pointless but the counter point is always just as valuable as the pro point.

I don't have blinders on. There isn't an approach here in case you didn't notice from the OP. This entire thread is to determine what it would take to run AC power 500 feet. It's not a thread saying, "Hey, I plan on running AC power 500 feet."

Your approach to this thread has been nothing short of trolling. I realize that many people use forums for entertainment purposes, and you fall clearly in that category, adding absolutely nothing of value to this discussion. I am glad that you will no longer be replying here. Thank you for that.

 

[AlaskanNoob]

15kw system is unrealistic unless they wanted to do 450V DC and they already said that was 'off topic' so I didn't address it.

The only other alternative without going DC that I can think of... are those 240v MicroGrid inverters [on the back of the solar panels]. Which require a split phase reference variable.

So inverter at the cabin as a 240 split phase reference. Then a huge AC wire 500ft. To an array of 240v microgrid inverters [solar panels] at the top.

Yes, DC power runs are off topic in a thread about how to run AC power.

Your realistic is not necessarily our realistic. We have had Ibiza Spain weigh in on how we should do things in Alaska, for example, but that's not our conditions. Rather than try to figure out who we are, what we need, what our conditions are, I would suggest simply stay on topic if you want to contribute and discuss how to run AC power 500 feet. Then we will decide what is realistic and what is not accordingly.

This isn't rocket surgery.

 

[AlaskanNoob]

OP said overhead power was out of the question due to trees falling. Last year I spent $3000 taking out trees that interfered with my system. It's called being proactive and looking ahead. I loved those trees too.

No, OP didn't say overhead power was out of the question. Fascinating to think we'd not be proactive if we bury the wire to keep trees from falling on it but if like you we simply cut trees when they interfere with our system, then we'd be proactive.

 

[AlaskanNoob]

A 600 volt buried cable is a very serious thing, ESPECIALLY in constantly wet ground. Deep snow and mud were mentioned earlier.
If your 600 volt buried cable craps out, how do you locate and repair the problem if it has all been buried under mud and snow ?
This would be a lot more practical and reliable in a dry sand, desert environment.

In this type of situation of wet snow/mud/inaccessibility, overhead bare steel fencing wire run at a very high voltage is easier to erect, and finding and fixing any problems with it later on, very straightforward. Falling trees and wildfires may be an issue, but any damage will be obvious and very quickly and easily repaired. The wire, poles, and insulators will be dirt cheap. All the money will go into transformers, and those will never give any trouble.

Thanks for the warning about burying wires. Is the higher voltage a more serious thing in wet ground than a lower voltage wire? What is the worst case scenario you're envisioning?

 

[offgriddave]

This thread is for the AC wiring option, your option is running DC power, no?

No it was in 500ft AC.

My budget, our property, our needs are not yours so we'll make the decision on what is a waste or not.

"Heat pump, water heater, washer, dryer (???? that's a wtf), oven?"

Your power needs are over-the-top unrealistic which is why you are getting pushback and your posts come off as unscrupulous.

I think you need to actually get out there and do things. Right now I've got two or three burn piles going, cutting down some more trees, and running an excavator this afternoon. There's a spot 500ft where I am that would work great for solar in the winter that's why I thought I post here. I ran back to check my new battery setup charge, and saw your post. Until you get out there and start doing things you won't understand what is realistic and unrealistic.

 

[AlaskanNoob]

No it was in 500ft AC.



"Heat pump, water heater, washer, dryer (???? that's a wtf), oven?"

Your power needs are over-the-top unrealistic which is why you are getting pushback and your posts come off as unscrupulous.

I think you need to actually get out there and do things. Right now I've got two or three burn piles going, cutting down some more trees, and running an excavator this afternoon. There's a spot 500ft where I am that would work great for solar in the winter that's why I thought I post here. I ran back to check my new battery setup charge, and saw your post. Until you get out there and start doing things you won't understand what is realistic and unrealistic.

Ah, you're right. You were talking about AC power. I had it confused with your previous comment in this thread:

15kw system is unrealistic unless they wanted to do 450V DC and they already said that was 'off topic' so I didn't address it.

My power needs are not even in the realm of unrealistic. Either way, and more to the point, you haven't shown how they are unrealistic. Perhaps start there if you want to make that argument?

And my posts are unscrupulous? Do you know what that word means?

Again, tell me why you think it's unrealistic. Show me numbers. Your realistic is not necessarily my realistic. But none of that matters, because the topic is how to run AC power 500 feet. So far I have not seen anything in here that would demonstrate that is unrealistic. To the contrary, at this point, it would appear to me that with the right transformers and wire, it is in fact realistic. Not to mention the fact that our nation is literally covered in AC wires running far more power for much greater distances.

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

No, OP didn't say overhead power was out of the question. Fascinating to think we'd not being proactive if we bury the wire to keep trees from falling on it.

uh...pretty much you did.

I've got to dig the trench for the GSHP horizontal loop anyway so I think burying the wire would be better for us especially given all our trees falling over all the time. We carry an electric chainsaw in our ATV because between the wind and frequent earthquakes, we have trees blocking our ATV trail all the time. We could *maybe* save money on wire by going overhead if it didn't have to be direct burial wire, but I don't think it would work in our application. Appreciate the suggestion though.

You've been presented with just about all the options out there, including a move to Arizona. Go ahead and bury your power feed 10' deep and when it inevitably shorts out you can dig another 10' deep trench next to it and do it all over again. Watch out for that GHS line you buried in the same ditch though. That could messy things up.

 

[AlaskanNoob]

uh...pretty much you did.

You've been presented with just about all the options out there, including a move to Arizona. Go ahead and bury your power feed 10' deep and when it inevitably shorts out you can dig another 10' deep trench next to it and do it all over again. Watch out for that GHS line you buried in the same ditch though. That could messy things up.

The only other alternative without going DC that I can think of... are those 240v MicroGrid inverters [on the back of the solar panels]. Which require a split phase reference variable.

So inverter at the cabin as a 240 split phase reference. Then a huge AC wire 500ft. To an array of 240v microgrid inverters [solar panels] at the top.

Do I have to explain to you how my post was not saying "it's out of the question?"

 

[AlaskanNoob]

uh...pretty much you did.

You've been presented with just about all the options out there, including a move to Arizona. Go ahead and bury your power feed 10' deep and when it inevitably shorts out you can dig another 10' deep trench next to it and do it all over again. Watch out for that GHS line you buried in the same ditch though. That could messy things up.

Why would the line short out? And would the line shorting out be limited to AC wires only, or both DC and AC wires? Is a wire more likely to short out ten feet underground, or overhead when trees become a problem for it as it did for OffGridDave?

Is your position that all the people trenching wires are dumb to do so, or is there something specific about our situation that makes you think that?

Do I have to explain why this thread was not about other options, but was actually limited to the one option the thread specifically addressed?

 

[AlaskanNoob]

Just contacted a custom transformer company and will be interested to hear what they say.

Interested in two transformers. One that can take 240V single phase from a Multiplus II 48/8000/110-100/100 230V inverter and step it up to 960V or higher for a 500 foot cable run to another transformer that can step it back down to 240V and split it if that's possible. If not, we'll use a third auto transformer to split it.

We'd be looking for 16KW to be pulled through the line, so a higher voltage than 960V to keep the 500 foot wire smaller would be appreciated.

Is this something you could assist with? Many thanks.

Asked them about the bigger 16KW draw just to future proof it, although it would mean buying more inverters.

 

[AlaskanNoob]

That was a fast response... They wrote back:

You should move to Arizona or Ibiza, Spain and get a solar water heater and use propane and proactively strings up overhead wires to cut trees down after they fall on them.

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

Why would the line short out? And would the line shorting out be limited to AC wires only, or both DC and AC wires?

AC/DC no matter.

Do I have to explain to you how my post was not saying "it's out of the question?"

You don't have to do anything.

Is your position that all the people trenching wires are dumb to do so, or is there something specific about our situation that makes you think that?

No. It's my position that if one uses direct burial cable, the likelihood a rock will find it's way to rest against the outer covering and nature will eventually rub a hole in it and volts will begin to leak out into the ground. Then a lot of effort will be wasted trying to figure out why only 80% of what left the solar panels didn't make it to the clothes dryer. If you put it in conduit 10' deep it won't take a month and the weight of the dirt you packed back in thaqt 10' ditch will break the conduit and again...rocks and stuff. Your situation isn't really different...at least not from the 30 years of electrical construction and maintenance experience I have from 1979-2009. It's a good idea for you to call that "custom transformer company" call a licensed electrical contractor IN YOUR AREA and get his take too.
Good luck. Happy trenching.

 

[AlaskanNoob]

15kw system is unrealistic unless they wanted to do 450V DC and they already said that was 'off topic' so I didn't address it.

The only other alternative without going DC that I can think of... are those 240v MicroGrid inverters [on the back of the solar panels]. Which require a split phase reference variable.

So inverter at the cabin as a 240 split phase reference. Then a huge AC wire 500ft. To an array of 240v microgrid inverters [solar panels] at the top.

AC/DC no matter.

You don't have to do anything.

No. It's my position that if one uses direct burial cable, the likelihood a rock will find it's way to rest against the outer covering and nature will eventually rub a hole in it and volts will begin to leak out into the ground. Then a lot of effort will be wasted trying to figure out why only 80% of what left the solar panels didn't make it to the clothes dryer. If you put it in conduit 10' deep it won't take a month and the weight of the dirt you packed back in thaqt 10' ditch will break the conduit and again...rocks and stuff. Your situation isn't really different...at least not from the 30 years of electrical construction and maintenance experience I have from 1979-2009. It's a good idea for you to call that "custom transformer company" call a licensed electrical contractor IN YOUR AREA and get his take too.
Good luck. Happy trenching.

I appreciate you sharing that. What happens if the line shorts ten feet under? Would none of the components sense that and shut the power off to the line? Would it be a fire hazard? Living in a forest, that would be a concern if so.

Rocks are very hard to come by in our soil, it's mostly clay and silt and sand. But we do have the potential issue of frost getting down there during a freak winter and the idea of cables pulling and stretching isn't a nice one.